New growth lime green tips

gogogogogogo · Dec 6, 2016

Anyone know what this may be? Not a nitrogen def, can't imagine it's phosphorous at week 4 of veg. They got pure water and seem to be doing better now, I'd just like to know if this is a def or, more likely, a tox and of what.

I'm using botanicare recommended amounts in inert promix / perlite mix. PH is 6.3.-6.5. I'm definitely unfamiliar with these symptoms.

Orlando737 · Dec 6, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Anyone know what this may be? Not a nitrogen def, can't imagine it's phosphorous at week 4 of veg. They got pure water and seem to be doing better now, I'd just like to know if this is a def or, more likely, a tox and of what.

I'm using botanicare recommended amounts in inert promix / perlite mix. PH is 6.3.-6.5. I'm definitely unfamiliar with these symptoms.

I really hope I'm wrong on this, but could be the start of mag def. Post a bit more info ie medium, lights distance ect & someone will chip in & help.
:peace:

Happy growing & good luck.

gogogogogogo · Dec 6, 2016

Orlando737 said:
I really hope I'm wrong on this, but could be the start of mag def. Post a bit more info ie medium, lights distance ect & someone will chip in & help.

Happy growing & good luck.

Well I've got a 400 w MH setup in a cool tube about a foot above them, but also have a second group of five under a t8 light so I don't think light proximity is the culprit. Medium is just pro mix with about 30% perlite mixed in, some myco, azomite, and humic acid. I wanted a fairly simple run this time around which is why I chose the soil I chose. I'm using Grow Pro, Fulvex, Cal-Mag, Silica Blast, Liquid Karma, and Hygrozyme, all of which I am following the recommended amounts of. Shouldn't be any gaps in nutrient supply, and the azomite ensures there's plenty of micronutrients available. Proper PH, etc. I've never seen these symptoms so I'm fairly stumped.

Thanks for the response, they're looking relatively healthy aside from these blemishes, I just want to make sure it's not a chronic issue rearing its head.

whitebb2727 · Dec 6, 2016

Don't do anything at the moment. That happens sometimes. If it continues to worsen I would suspect a ph issue.

Logan Burke · Dec 6, 2016

I've seen strange spots like the one in your third pic in hydro and soil, I was always stumped but it never (that I could see) was never a problem, however, the other two are saying they need (or need less) of something..... I haven't grown enough in soil to give you advice on that. I think some vets on here will get you going in the right way though!

whitebb2727 · Dec 6, 2016

I'm staring to lean a little towards over watering on the middle pic. The blemishes I wouldn't worry about just yet.

Orlando737 · Dec 6, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Well I've got a 400 w MH setup in a cool tube about a foot above them, but also have a second group of five under a t8 light so I don't think light proximity is the culprit. Medium is just pro mix with about 30% perlite mixed in, some myco, azomite, and humic acid. I wanted a fairly simple run this time around which is why I chose the soil I chose. I'm using Grow Pro, Fulvex, Cal-Mag, Silica Blast, Liquid Karma, and Hygrozyme, all of which I am following the recommended amounts of. Shouldn't be any gaps in nutrient supply, and the azomite ensures there's plenty of micronutrients available. Proper PH, etc. I've never seen these symptoms so I'm fairly stumped.

Thanks for the response, they're looking relatively healthy aside from these blemishes, I just want to make sure it's not a chronic issue rearing its head.

On second thoughts, I think whitebb2727 is right, wrong ph is a problem that looks like some deficiencies.
have you got a ph meter and if so, what is the reading show?
:peace:

gogogogogogo · Dec 7, 2016

whitebb2727 said:
Don't do anything at the moment. That happens sometimes. If it continues to worsen I would suspect a ph issue.

Orlando737 said:
On second thoughts, I think whitebb2727 is right, wrong ph is a problem that looks like some deficiencies.
have you got a ph meter and if so, what is the reading show?

6.3-6.5 with a runoff of about the same. Checked every time and PH out the tap comes at 6.5

whitebb2727 · Dec 7, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
6.3-6.5 with a runoff of about the same. Checked every time and PH out the tap comes at 6.5

I had some do that and it got worse. It was in a inert peat base like promix. 3-4 bales were good and the last bale was bad.

Peat can get acidic.

As of now I wouldn't do anything.

How much and how often are you watering them.

gogogogogogo · Dec 7, 2016

whitebb2727 said:
I had some do that and it got worse. It was in a inert peat base like promix. 3-4 bales were good and the last bale was bad.

Peat can get acidic.

As of now I wouldn't do anything.

How much and how often are you watering them.

Once every 3-4 days, for about 8 seconds. I don't have runoff and wait until the soil's bone dry a couple inches deep.

whitebb2727 · Dec 7, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Once every 3-4 days, for about 8 seconds. I don't have runoff and wait until the soil's bone dry a couple inches deep.

Ok. That will cause a problem. Peat when it over dries will become hydrophobic and will not take water.

Water until 20% run off. Water twice a few minutes apart. Moist medium will absorb more water. So water once lightly and 5 minutes later water again until run off. This is important with synthetic nutes. No run off will cause salt build up.

Pick your pot up to see if it needs water. If it feel light, water. If heavy, don't. Using your finger is inaccurate.

MichiganMedGrower · Dec 8, 2016

I agree with @whitebb2727 and then continue to water to runoff.

Also it looks like the leaves up top are showing the symptoms of salt buildup to me. I use only pure blend grow with none of the other additives in flower and almost never get up to their full 20ml per gallon recommended dose. Maybe on 6 oz. yielders.

When I see the yellow tips I lower my feed strength. If it gets worse I leech the pot some until I get clearer runoff.

A light flush to runoff and maybe half of what you were using with no additives back in is my suggestion. Then be patient to see improvement before adding stuff or upping the dosage.

Dr. Who · Dec 8, 2016

Sulfur def
From pH
Leaf structure of the new growth is the confirmation on pH.

Metering the run off is never near the actual pH! Useless basically.

You water and the pH drops around a point.
As it dries back out, it raise's back.

Extended dry periods will begin a high pH issue and wet conditions a low one.....Yours looks high!

Water when the "dry" feel in soil is only 1 inch deep.....Or, when the pot feels "light" when lifted.
Sometimes I water with a very slight moisture detectable, just below the surface!
If my soil/media has the right amount of buffering added (liming agent). It is a simple task to maintain balance.

Your problem is your feeds and waters are too high in pH!!!!

Soilless is considered "hydro" and you pH to 5.8 - 6.2! ALL in-going fluids!

Uberknot · Dec 8, 2016

I learned that you must water until you get a decent run off....When I water I use a squirt bottle about 16 oz or so at a time for 1 gallon and take time to allow the water to soak in every so often. Then I do a final 64 oz and let that push through and flush.

My water is Ph'd always around 6.5 using Promix/perlite soil.

I water 1.5 gallons in a 5 gallon pot and get about 20-30% run off.

These guys are right.

gogogogogogo · Dec 8, 2016

whitebb2727 said:
Ok. That will cause a problem. Peat when it over dries will become hydrophobic and will not take water.

Water until 20% run off. Water twice a few minutes apart. Moist medium will absorb more water. So water once lightly and 5 minutes later water again until run off. This is important with synthetic nutes. No run off will cause salt build up.

Pick your pot up to see if it needs water. If it feel light, water. If heavy, don't. Using your finger is inaccurate.

Huh, I've always been under the impression that promix has a tendency to be overwatered, as such I lowered my rates of watering. I guess I'm used to watering with organics.

MichiganMedGrower said:
I agree with @whitebb2727 and then continue to water to runoff.

Also it looks like the leaves up top are showing the symptoms of salt buildup to me. I use only pure blend grow with none of the other additives in flower and almost never get up to their full 20ml per gallon recommended dose. Maybe on 6 oz. yielders.

When I see the yellow tips I lower my feed strength. If it gets worse I leech the pot some until I get clearer runoff.

A light flush to runoff and maybe half of what you were using with no additives back in is my suggestion. Then be patient to see improvement before adding stuff or upping the dosage.

Have you used their clearex? Is it any better than PH'd tap water?

Dr. Who said:
Sulfur def
From pH
Leaf structure of the new growth is the confirmation on pH.

Metering the run off is never near the actual pH! Useless basically.

You water and the pH drops around a point.
As it dries back out, it raise's back.

Extended dry periods will begin a high pH issue and wet conditions a low one.....Yours looks high!

Water when the "dry" feel in soil is only 1 inch deep.....Or, when the pot feels "light" when lifted.
Sometimes I water with a very slight moisture detectable, just below the surface!
If my soil/media has the right amount of buffering added (liming agent). It is a simple task to maintain balance.

Your problem is your feeds and waters are too high in pH!!!!

Soilless is considered "hydro" and you pH to 5.8 - 6.2! ALL in-going fluids!

Upon looking into it, seems you're right. I've never heard that before, assuming it all fell under the 6.0-6.5 range. What an oversight. I neglected adding lime in this mix as I found it has kept PH high in other soils I've used, maybe I just used too much. How much lime per gallon, approximately, do you use?

Uberknot said:
I learned that you must water until you get a decent run off....When I water I use a squirt bottle about 16 oz or so at a time for 1 gallon and take time to allow the water to soak in every so often. Then I do a final 64 oz and let that push through and flush.

My water is Ph'd always around 6.5 using Promix/perlite soil.

I water 1.5 gallons in a 5 gallon pot and get about 20-30% run off.

These guys are right.

Good advice on moistening the top layer of soil, I've noticed that too, water will tend to run around the sides if it is dry and find the path of least resistance, running out the drainage holes...

whitebb2727 · Dec 8, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Huh, I've always been under the impression that promix has a tendency to be overwatered, as such I lowered my rates of watering. I guess I'm used to watering with organics.

Have you used their clearex? Is it any better than PH'd tap water?

Upon looking into it, seems you're right. I've never heard that before, assuming it all fell under the 6.0-6.5 range. What an oversight. I neglected adding lime in this mix as I found it has kept PH high in other soils I've used, maybe I just used too much. How much lime per gallon, approximately, do you use?

Good advice on moistening the top layer of soil, I've noticed that too, water will tend to run around the sides if it is dry and find the path of least resistance, running out the drainage holes...

I hate using a peat base by itself. I went with a mix similar to promix and tried to use it organic and mine did the same as yours. Its documented in my thread.

I also lost an outdoor plant due to hydrophobia. the center of the rootball dried out and would not take water. I went to dif it up and found the dry spot.

Did you notice how it was hard to get that promix wet? It needs a good watering and then dry but not to the point it wont take water. You can correct it by letting it sit in some water and wick it up or a drop of dish soap in your water to break water tension.

The biggest thing for your setup if not organic is proper watering until run off and then dry. Repeat.

Its not bad yet but could get worse.

MichiganMedGrower · Dec 8, 2016

All you have to do to keep the soil from being hydrophobic is to rough up the top 1/2 inch of soil when it hardens. And pour a cup of water slowly and wait a minute if too dry. Then water.

I use a salad fork or the probes on my moisture meter to scatch the surface every few days. Water then penetrates evenly.

Uberknot · Dec 8, 2016

MichiganMedGrower said:
All you have to do to keep the soil from being hydrophobic is to rough up the top 1/2 inch of soil when it hardens. And pour a cup of water slowly and wait a minute if too dry. Then water.

I use a salad fork or the probes on my moisture meter to scatch the surface every few days. Water then penetrates evenly.

I use my kitchen thermometer to probe deep into the soil like worms here and there for air and rough up the top 1-2 inches every so often to make sure it doesn't get overly packed.

MichiganMedGrower · Dec 8, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Huh, I've always been under the impression that promix has a tendency to be overwatered, as such I lowered my rates of watering. I guess I'm used to watering with organics.

Have you used their clearex? Is it any better than PH'd tap water?

Upon looking into it, seems you're right. I've never heard that before, assuming it all fell under the 6.0-6.5 range. What an oversight. I neglected adding lime in this mix as I found it has kept PH high in other soils I've used, maybe I just used too much. How much lime per gallon, approximately, do you use?

Good advice on moistening the top layer of soil, I've noticed that too, water will tend to run around the sides if it is dry and find the path of least resistance, running out the drainage holes...

I never used any flushing agent. Plain well water and then lighter nutes. The nutes attract salts that have become soluble and helps wash them out.

I only ever add base grow nutes. And some perlite to my potting mix.

Dr. Who · Dec 8, 2016

gogogogogogo said:
Huh, I've always been under the impression that promix has a tendency to be overwatered, as such I lowered my rates of watering. I guess I'm used to watering with organics.

Have you used their clearex? Is it any better than PH'd tap water?

Upon looking into it, seems you're right. I've never heard that before, assuming it all fell under the 6.0-6.5 range. What an oversight. I neglected adding lime in this mix as I found it has kept PH high in other soils I've used, maybe I just used too much. How much lime per gallon, approximately, do you use?

Good advice on moistening the top layer of soil, I've noticed that too, water will tend to run around the sides if it is dry and find the path of least resistance, running out the drainage holes...

More like 1/2 cup to a sqft

New growth lime green tips

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