New feeding routine? Any tips of when to use each?

Brokeoldbloke said:

So what do you use? Do they still sell the non-perfect version. I was thinking of doing the whole grow w/ just sensi non-perfect grow A&B which is 5-2-5.

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i've used sensi grow for a long time. sensi bloom and then tried connoisseur when it came out. i'm gonna finish up my connoisseur and go back to sensi bloom just cause it wasn't worth the price difference to me. it's definitely a quality product but not for double the price of bloom without any sizable difference. that's just my room though. doing the whole grow that way would be cool. you might need a little pk boost later on in flower. just read your plants...they'll tell you what they need.

ScoobyDoobyDoo said:

i've used sensi grow for a long time. sensi bloom and then tried connoisseur when it came out. i'm gonna finish up my connoisseur and go back to sensi bloom just cause it wasn't worth the price difference to me. it's definitely a quality product but not for double the price of bloom without any sizable difference. that's just my room though. doing the whole grow that way would be cool. you might need a little pk boost later on in flower. just read your plants...they'll tell you what they need.

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Cool thx, I've got a bottle of JJ bloom that I used to supplement the dutch masters 1part a couple of times this grow. I really feel a two part works best for me and the sensi grow looks about right. The website doesn't give much info, do the bottles list the micro lvls in each part?

Brokeoldbloke said:

Cool thx, I've got a bottle of JJ bloom that I used to supplement the dutch masters 1part a couple of times this grow. I really feel a two part works best for me and the sensi grow looks about right. The website doesn't give much info, do the bottles list the micro lvls in each part?

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sensi grow facts:
http://www.advancednutrients.com/hy.../sensi_grow_faq_nutrient_facts.php#nutrientGA

sensi bloom facts:
http://www.advancednutrients.com/hy...sensi_bloom_faq_nutrient_facts.php#nutrientGA

Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything about the micros just the majors.

Brokeoldbloke said:

Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything about the micros just the majors.

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the bottles have it on them i think. gotta go to the farm and find out. you can call their support line and they'll email them to you. the definitely are on the website somewhere cause i printed them once. it's in .pdf form on there somewhere.

Jbone77 said:

I live in a non legal state, I dont produce "meds", I grow illegal plants, perhaps its paranoia but posting pics or a journal seems kinda silly when I dont ask for advice on how to grow, if I ask a question its about equipment I have little/no experience with.

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Maybe that's the difference. There seems to be a freer flowing exchange of information in med states where growers warn each other of rip-offs in the hobby. And it's not just a 'take my word for it', it's a 'smoke this and tell me I don't know my sh*t' kind of conversation. For the sake of the greater good, I hope your state gets there one day.

The fact that people are asking which nutrients are better to use, tells that they are most likely using the proportions on (if not going exactly by) the back of nutrient labels. Don't get me wrong, this is fine; you can most certainly grow a decent smoke, from start to finish, doing exactly what nutrient labels recommend for you to do. In that case, the best nutrient to use would depend on their NPK ratios. Though, in my opinion, the best way to grow a plant, is to tweak these ratios by finding your own mix of nutrients. Even if you're using a complete nutrient, you can tweak the NPK ratios easily by using different mixes of grow, bloom & additives. Any nutrient brand can be just as good as the next, in the hands of the right person.. I think the form of that the nutrients are in also plays a big role, ideally you want them chelated. Of course.

All that being said, after all of the nutrient brands I have tried out so far- I personally prefer DG nutrients, though I like AN as well. My favorite thing about DG, is that when my nutrient solution is all mixed up- the solution is crystal clear.. almost looks like clean water even. I never have any root or solution problems, but if I did- they would be very easy to see & would most likely get caught before the problems got out of hand. Every once in a while I play with Advanced Nutrients but I like their cheap GH knockoff 'Jungle Juice' the best.. not only for the price but for the freedom that comes with it. I haven't, and will not, play around with the Connoisseur stuff because I know that nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium are just nitrogen, phosphorous and potassium- no matter how many times a priest blesses them.

homebrewer said:

DG's bloom sucks by itself, I pointed that out two weeks into my first run with their foods. It needs more N and less P and I think UB asked one of their techs about the lopsided P in that formula and their response was '..it's easier to give the public what they want instead of reeducating them as to what plants actually need'. While we're on the subject, I don't understand their Magpro product. Why sell a bottle that emphasizes the 3 least important macro and secondary macro elements when their 'bases' already contain plenty? I guess it looks good on paper for the types that think bloom boosters actually boost blooms.

I'll give them this though, with as much as I don't like those two bottles, they're potent.

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To set the record straight, it was a conversation I had with Jack Peters himself. He designed the 10-30-20 for orchid growers. The point he made during a personal phone call was that the P in that product was more than enough to support good flowering.

UB

Brokeoldbloke said:

Yeah, that doesn't tell me anything about the micros just the majors.

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The Sensi Grow has no micros, just cheap salts you can get from any chemical supply house. The Bloom has a token few micros, not near what a plant requires.

It's crap.

Speaking of crap. I'll gladly sell you suckers some good ol Texas magpies or road apples. Guaranteed to be complete....or your money back.

Uncle Ben said:

The Sensi Grow has no micros, just cheap salts you can get from any chemical supply house. The Bloom has a token few micros, not near what a plant requires.

It's crap.

Speaking of crap. I'll gladly sell you suckers some food ol Texas magpies or road apples. Guaranteed to be complete....or your money back.

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Unless your talking about microprocessors thats the dumbest thing thats ever been said on this forum. Guess my inert perlite is loaded with micros then because sensi grow alone in perlite hempys works great. Il gladly sell you magical perlite thats loaded with micros if ud like.

oh look the advanced nutrient shills are back! hey guys!

the most common thing i find when talking about nutrients is grower error. most growers will do a run or maybe 2 with a nutrient and if they can't get their plants dialed in then they blame the nutrient company. evidence is all over this forum...guys bashing AN cause they couldn't grow with it and other guys harvesting killer buds and praising AN. any of the synthetic nutrients can grow healthy mj from start to finish. i choose to use AN cause out of all of the other companies i've tried they by far gave me the best buds, have the strongest solutions, best tech support, and cost just about the same as everyone else once you factor in potency. a good grower could produce quality buds with any formula. for some reason people starting saying that AN was so expensive when in reality it's cheaper than most; i have no clue how that rumor got started. then they say that AN has 15 different additives. well, so does GH, BC, Canna, H&G, Botanicare, and a bunch of others. You aren't supposed to use them all. Not in any lineup.

An will stay in my room till something better comes along. I'll find out this year for sure with Dyna Gro and H&G going through tests in the near future.

Speaking of crap.....insert foot.

Jbone77 said:

Unless your talking about microprocessors thats the dumbest thing thats ever been said on this forum.

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Looking at both.....you only get Mn and Fe and a bunch of lies.....crap-fer-brains. The shysters left out Cu, B, Zn (very important) and others. DG's Grow goes much farther and gives the gardener a reasonably priced source of all nutrients including cobalt, sodium, chlorine, nickel, molybdenum and sulfur in addition to the most important micros - zinc, iron, cu, and manganese.

It's crap as is your ignorance and arrogance, unless I'm missing something on their stupid looking labels.

UB

It's nearly impossible to get a Cu or Zn deficiency. Fe is the most important micro and an order of magnitude more concentrated than Cu, Zn, Mo, Mn, and B in all hydroponic solutions(1-5ppm vs 0.05ppm).

Cobalt and nickel are both totally useless. When counting the 16 essential elements, H, C and O make up 3, and they come from the atmosphere and the water.

Hydrobuddy doesn't even include inputs for for Ni and Co.

Uncle Ben said:

Speaking of crap.....insert foot.



Looking at both.....you only get Mn and Fe and a bunch of lies.....crap-fer-brains. The shysters left out Cu, B, Zn (very important) and others. DG's Grow goes much farther and gives the gardener a reasonably priced source of all nutrients including cobalt, sodium, chlorine, nickel, molybdenum and sulfur in addition to the most important micros - zinc, iron, cu, and manganese.

It's crap as is your ignorance and arrogance, unless I'm missing something on their stupid looking labels.

UB

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Time for another lesson......

churchhaze said:

It's nearly impossible to get a Cu or Zn deficiency. Fe is the most important micro and an order of magnitude more concentrated than Cu, Zn, Mo, Mn, and B (1-5ppm vs 0.05ppm).

Cobalt and nickel are both totally useless. When counting the 16 essential elements, H, C and O make up 3, and they come from the atmosphere and the water.

Hydrobuddy doesn't even include inputs for for Ni and Co.

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It's quite possible if it's not included in the food witness Advanced Shysters SENSIble Crap.

After many years of growing I've come to realize how important Zn and Mn are. If you need assurance that your faves are getting plenty of iron, use Citrus FeED. The iron is triple chelated to take into account all soil structures and pH.

DG has all 16 essential AND beneficial elements in a one part solution. 19 if you want to play the atmosphere game although the H comes from water. Hate to bust your bubble, but plants do need chlorine and sodium, just in extremely small amounts. There's a difference between "essential" and "beneficial". Silicon, sodium, cobalt, and selenium would be an example of beneficial elements.
Learn the concept and tell your hydrobuddy who's selling his software for an arm and a leg that Uncle Ben over at RIU would be honored to meet his presence.
http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/nutri.html


UB

I've never added sodium chloride to my mixes. I actually used to grow without a source of Fe, B, Mn, and Mo. It wouldn't work at all. After adding Fe, it all worked. I've since then added sources of B, Mn, and Mo to my mixes and really haven't noticed a difference, but I do it anyway because I'm "supposed to". For Zn and Cu, I throw in a post 82 US penny in each tank. It doesn't matter...

As for cobalt and selenium, I'd like to see solid evidence that these elements can increase the yield or quality of cannabis. Same with Ni. If anything, B, Mn, Mo,Cl, and Na are all beneficial rather than essential, while Fe is absolutely essential.

(I realize this is all moot point anyway, as closer inspection of the newer sensi grow labels show it indeed does have these micros included)

Uncle Ben said:

Time for another lesson......



After many years of growing I've come to realize how important Zn and Mn are. If you need assurance that your faves are getting plenty of iron, use Citrus FeED. The iron is triple chelated to take into account all soil structures and pH.

DG has all 16 essential AND beneficial elements in a one part solution. Hate to bust your bubble, but plants do need chlorine and sodium, just in extremely small amounts. There's a difference between "essential" and "beneficial". Silicon, sodium, cobalt, and selenium would be an example of beneficial elements.
Learn the concept and tell your hydrobuddy who's selling his software for an arm and a leg that Uncle Ben over at RIU would be honored to meet his presence.
http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/nutri.html


UB

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churchhaze said:

.....As for cobalt and selenium, I'd like to see solid evidence that these elements can increase the yield or quality of cannabis. Same with Ni. If anything, B, Mn, Mo,Cl, and Na are all beneficial rather than essential, while Fe is absolutely essential.

(I realize this is all moot point anyway, as closer inspection of the newer sensi grow labels show it indeed does have these micros included)

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Did you read about the concept? Probably not. Here's the crux of it:

ESSENTIAL VERSUS BENEFICIAL

The term essential mineral element (or mineral nutrient) was proposed by Arnon and Stout (1939). They concluded three criteria must be met for an element to be considered essential. These criteria are: 1. A plant must be unable to complete its life cycle in the absence of the mineral element. 2. The function of the element must not be replaceable by another mineral element. 3. The element must be directly involved in plant metabolism. These criteria are important guidelines for plant nutrition but exclude beneficial mineral elements. Beneficial elements are those that can compensate for toxic effects of other elements or may replace mineral nutrients in some other less specific function such as the maintenance of osmotic pressure. The omission of beneficial nutrients in commercial production could mean that plants are not being grown to their optimum genetic potential but are merely produced at a subsistence level. This discussion of plant nutrition includes both the essential and beneficial mineral elements.


Of course that was way back in 1939. What would those dinosaurs know? So many advances have been made to botany since then. Plants are more hip now.

2. The function of the element must not be replaceable by another mineral element.

The role of sodium can be completely replaced by an abundant supply of potassium. As far as I know, the only real use cannabis gets out of sodium is increasing turgidity of leaves through higher osmotic pressure. This is what potassium does though.

Edit: I guess you're right about me not reading. You basically said the same thing in your example.

Uncle Ben said:

Did you read the about the concept? Probably not. Here's the crux of it:

ESSENTIAL VERSUS BENEFICIAL

The term essential mineral element (or mineral nutrient) was proposed by Arnon and Stout (1939). They concluded three criteria must be met for an element to be considered essential. These criteria are: 1. A plant must be unable to complete its life cycle in the absence of the mineral element. 2. The function of the element must not be replaceable by another mineral element. 3. The element must be directly involved in plant metabolism. These criteria are important guidelines for plant nutrition but exclude beneficial mineral elements. Beneficial elements are those that can compensate for toxic effects of other elements or may replace mineral nutrients in some other less specific function such as the maintenance of osmotic pressure. The omission of beneficial nutrients in commercial production could mean that plants are not being grown to their optimum genetic potential but are merely produced at a subsistence level. This discussion of plant nutrition includes both the essential and beneficial mineral elements.


Of course that was way back in 1939. What would those dinosaurs know? So many advances have been made to botany then. Plants are more hip now.

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Hydrobuddy is open source! He actually gets requests to add elements to the calculator all the time, and has a few reasons for omitting Ni and Co (that it's impossible not to get enough as byproducts from other micro salts).

Uncle Ben said:

Learn the concept and tell your hydrobuddy who's selling his software for an arm and a leg that Uncle Ben over at RIU would be honored to meet his presence.
http://retirees.uwaterloo.ca/~jerry/orchids/nutri.html


UB

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churchhaze said:

Hydrobuddy is open source!

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Yep, you're right. Guess the 6 icons of credit cards hawking donations had me thrown for a loop LOL.

I can see where a seasoned horticulturist, a manager of a large nursery operation who buys their salts in bulk and understands plant processes, soil chemistry, and plant nutrition would benefit from the program. Of course I'm speaking out of turn as I haven't used it. Have you?

As a horticulturist though, networking with other horticulturists, it is much more economical and time saving to buy 50 lb. bags of Peters or Schultz or Harrell's or Plant Products or from the dozen or so manufacturers of high quality water soluble foods.

UB