Need a bit of help please (PICS)

Right, My ladies are doing so well, and I'm at a loss as to what it is, leaves are going yellow then brown/blackish patches and are also very brittle, I'm unsure as to what it is!

Setup: 9 GH Trainwreck - 6 weeks into veg
1.2mx1.2 meter tent
600w HPS in a cooltube
6" outlet connected to cooltube and 6" carbon filter (running half power)
400w HPS
4" inlet
heaven fresh 6L humidifier
Pedestal fan
Growing in 70% perlite 30% vermiculite 15L hempy bucket

Feed and temps:
0.8 EC - Dutch Pro A & B Grow for soft 5-2-7 NPK combined (0.6 A & B taken to 0.8 with Plant Magic Magne-cal)
PH 5.7-6.0
Soft water (0.16 EC and 7.0PH out of the tap)
Water temp about 18C
Tent temps 18-27C
Watered every 2-3 days depending on how dry they are

Anything I've missed just ask

Looks like deficiency in general. What is the ppm of the mixed solution you're watering with? I don't know much about hempy buckets. I do DWC, but it's very similar.

Edit: nevermind, I read your EC. It looks a bit low. pH looks good. Keep it below 6.

PPM 500 is 400PPM
PPM 700 is 560PPM

I don't know how PPM works to be honest, i just converted that off a Bluelab Truncheon.... Am i being too cautious with the nutes? Basically first grow (This is second) I followed the feed chart from dutch pro and well.............killed them, so maybe I'm just going from one extreme to the other here? roughly what should they be on? if it's easier give it in ppm and i'll check the truncheon

Also, why not just use A&B? Why use that other thing? Why do new growers need to make everything so complicated?

You are being too cautious I think, but I'm not sure what ppm should be when watering with hempy buckets, I only know what it should be when it's in a DWC.

htidwelshy said:

PPM 500 is 400PPM
PPM 700 is 560PPM

I don't know how PPM works to be honest, i just converted that off a Bluelab Truncheon.... Am i being too cautious with the nutes?

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feed them.

Soft water? A water softener adds SALT to the water- BAD for your plants!!!! They can not uptake as it binds to the nutrients and causes lock-up.... and what is that medium they are in??????

You need to flush them with filtered water-- really flush them... then add 1 quart of nutrients but you MUST follow the manufacturers chart AND their list of nutrients! they are made to work together in specific amounts- if you "wing-it" and leave out or add things, it is out of balance and they get deficiencies.
Go to the companies website for their feeding chart and follow it exactly as shown.... they'll bounce back if you switch your water to filtered and get your nutes on-track!

(DO NOT try to use reverse Osmosis on water that has gone thru a water softener... they call it "dead water" and the water will not bind to the nutrients and the plant will starve no matter what you feed it. Don't take my word for it-- read up on using water softeners and RO units....)

Good Luck hun!

... Dead water? Just raise your ppm mang.

Doesnt look good. Flush and start again fresh. Check your ph, water runnoff..

LadyZandra said:

Soft water? A water softener adds SALT to the water- BAD for your plants!!!! They can not uptake as it binds to the nutrients and causes lock-up.... and what is that medium they are in??????

You need to flush them with filtered water-- really flush them... then add 1 quart of nutrients but you MUST follow the manufacturers chart AND their list of nutrients! they are made to work together in specific amounts- if you "wing-it" and leave out or add things, it is out of balance and they get deficiencies.
Go to the companies website for their feeding chart and follow it exactly as shown.... they'll bounce back if you switch your water to filtered and get your nutes on-track!

(DO NOT try to use reverse Osmosis on water that has gone thru a water softener... they call it "dead water" and the water will not bind to the nutrients and the plant will starve no matter what you feed it. Don't take my word for it-- read up on using water softeners and RO units....)

Good Luck hun!

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Just checking we're on the same page here, I don't add water softener, it's just that way out of the tap, is there a way to "Harden" my water safely?

I followed their feeding chart first time and it killed them

Why would anyone want to harden their water? You're totally fine with your tap water.

churchhaze said:

Also, why not just use A&B? Why use that other thing? Why do new growers need to make everything so complicated?

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Unfortunately, my water and feed make things complicated, I bought magne-cal as a last resort because there just wasn't enough magnesium in there, Which this stuff has sorted, but maybe i've over did it with it and under did it with the A & B

Right guys, after a few google searches I've found that soft water is basically swapping calcium and magnesium for sodium and potassium My next question would be, is the potassium in my feed too high? I have canna A & B here too with an npk of 5-4-3 which would suit soft water better? I know my feeds are for soft water (bordering on very soft) but that doesn't mean they are best for me? I'm trying to keep it so I add as little crap as possible I have the full dutch pro range for coco/hydro

I'm going to put them on bottled water for a week or so with a higher EC, then when I can afford it, get an RO kit in, I'll post results, I also took a few cuttings to play with and test with different feeds and waters see if I can bring an end to this nightmare!

I'm adding rep for all the replies, cheers guys and I'll let you all know how they go

Do you have a way to access your water before it goes through your softener?? In all honesty the minerals in your pre-softened water shouldn't hurt your plants and in fact may do them quite a bit of good.

As for the comment telling you you MUST only stick to a manufacturers dosing instructions on nutrients and you MUST only use the product lines the recommend. Pure hogwash. Nutrient manufacturers are in the business of selling nutes. Each strain and even many phenos withing a single strain have differing ideal nute requirements. It's usually a safe bet to add half the recommended dose and then work your way up to the sweet spot for your specific plant. As for only using nutes from a single line..... look at any number of grow journals on here and you will see the majority mix and match their additives to suit their needs.

I just went through a pretty killer case of lockout..... your plants seem to be presenting most of the same symptoms. Flush and start back into your nutrient regiment at half strength and work your way up.

Don't worry about the soft water thing. The EC is to low for it to really matter if it's Na, K, or Ca. This calculator I'm using says 0.16EC is about 112ppm which isn't that high.

The real problem is when you have hard water (200+ ppm), but even that isn't a problem if it's from calcium because you can just pH balance it and it becomes available nutes.

5-4-3 is fine, if not too low in potassium for veg (that's a matter of opinion). I prefer a higher K than P and N in veg such as a 3-2-4 ratio, but most ratios will work for growing weed.

The only reason I'm suggesting to stick to the schedule (not so much the strength, but the proportions), is because it gives a guideline for new growers to be more likely to succeed. The manufacturers aren't stupid. It's not that you MUST stick to the schedule, it's that you probably should for now. You usually don't need the calmag products. There's plenty of calcium in the mix already (calcium nitrate) that provides the majority of the nitrates in the mix anyway, and magnesium could be added separately as epsom salts. Calmag products get their calcium from the same place btw, calcium nitrate, which is the main provider of nitrates so you're adding a ton of nitrogen and doubling up! Good if you want more nitrate.

htidwelshy said:

Right guys, after a few google searches I've found that soft water is basically swapping calcium and magnesium for sodium and potassium My next question would be, is the potassium in my feed too high? I have canna A & B here too with an npk of 5-4-3 which would suit soft water better? I know my feeds are for soft water (bordering on very soft) but that doesn't mean they are best for me? I'm trying to keep it so I add as little crap as possible I have the full dutch pro range for coco/hydro

I'm going to put them on bottled water for a week or so with a higher EC, then when I can afford it, get an RO kit in, I'll post results, I also took a few cuttings to play with and test with different feeds and waters see if I can bring an end to this nightmare!

I'm adding rep for all the replies, cheers guys and I'll let you all know how they go

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Adding "calmag" products as a panacea for all problems also makes it impossible to know what fixed the problem if it does indeed work... If there was indeed a magnesium deficiency, why would anyone want to add calcium nitrate with magnesium nitrate to fix it?

Because i don't know any better yet, but I'm learning, I'm going to give them a 1.0 EC feed and look for signs of improvement, if not I'll be back! I'll try just A & B as you suggested, I'll post some more pics when I notice a change for better or worse hopefully for the better though

Oh I'm sorry, I didn't actually mean that to be directed at you, but to everyone in general... Calmag is useless garbage imo, but this is coming from someone who makes his own nutes. It's all just cheap inorganic salts diluted in a bunch of water, each bottle with slightly different ratios... I just can't see how the community in general hasn't caught on to this yet..

Anyone could just buy a 50 pound bag of calcium nitrate for 35 or so dollars and have "calmag" or "micro" or whatever you call it for life. I'm not sure why it's called "micro" either when it's the main ingredient to the entire hydroponic solution when mixed..

I guess it was more of a rant than anything. Sorry about that. lol

htidwelshy said:

Because i don't know any better yet, but I'm learning, I'm going to give them a 1.0 EC feed and look for signs of improvement, if not I'll be back! I'll try just A & B as you suggested, I'll post some more pics when I notice a change for better or worse hopefully for the better though

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It's all good mate, I didn't take offence or anything, I just honestly didn't know any better, To be honest I went into this way too blindly and am now having to try and learn how to do it while keeping them going, abd there is a LOT to learn lol

***EDIT I've given them a 1.0 EC Feed with no calmag, and hopefully I'll see an improvement, Would spraying them at lights out help?, just spray them with a lower feed to get it into the leaves?