N deficient or nutrient burn
- Thread starter min0r
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min0r
Well-Known Member
really? i've been feeding .25g/gal of epsom salt. should i go up to .50g?
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
No need to increase MgSO4. I use less then half that for maintenance dose. You should be able to determine the issue just by looking at your doses. Are you feeding fairly heavy? Some reason to believe one vs the other? I mean nutrient burn vs deficiency...opposite end of the spectrum. Tell us more about the grow.
JD
min0r
Well-Known Member
well, i'm using soil nutrients(fox farm's line) so it's a bit hard to tell dosage. i'm getting jacks321 sometime soon hopefully.
i feed 2.5tsp of bigbloom and 3tsp of growbig if you'd like a npk ratio's i'll post them.
it looks like it's deficient, yet at the same time to me it looks like it's burnt because of the rust spots.
JohnDee
Well-Known Member
And how are those doses compared to what's recommended by manufacturer? 1/2 strength or what?
Nute burn usually presents as burnt leaf tips and often you can see it coming because high feedings usually cause a dark greening of the leaf. Your leaves aren't that dark nor are your tips burnt.
Many other issues cause dark spots...most noticeably Ca++ related. You using RO water or tap and if tap...is it hard water. Water quality is very important. Why epsom salts rather then calmag? If you had a Ca++ drficiency you should be using calmag.
JD
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min0r
Well-Known Member
they arent too far off from the manufacture dosage, maybe half a tsp down from what it should be, they recommend 3tsp of both bigbloom and growbig, i lowered the bloom down since they really don't need that much bloom nutrient for veg.
i know about nute burn, i've never had cal issues in the past so the rust spots are just throwing me off.
i got the epsom salts before i had cal issues. i'm thinking it's calcium because foxfarms lineup contains close to nothing when it comes to cal. i didn't have money to purchase cal mag then, and i don't now, as i said before, i'm getting jacks321 nutrients, so calcium won't be a problem once it's finally at my doorstep.
i used gypsum for my last grow as my cal provider, but i was in soil, and gypsum is maybe 4% water-solulable, so it wouldnt work. i'm using tap water, but i'm still really sure that it's a calcium issue, not my tap water.
edit - i'm thinking of maybe putting in 4tsp of growbig instead of 3, and .50g of espom salt instead of .25 , do you think that would work out okay?
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JohnDee
Well-Known Member
Min0r,
You said you are using soil nutrients. Is that soil with hydroton on the top?
I'm getting a feeling that you're heavy handed on the nute issues. Nothing personal...but with no particular reason you are wanting to double your Epsom salt dosage. Plus you're near the max recommended dose per instructions. Those are usually way high and rarely do people reach those levels. You are going to get into trouble if you keep bumping doses. It's having the proper ratio that you should be shooting for.
When planning a grow...you need to determine what water and where your Calcium and magnesium are coming from. That's the baseline...and nutes added on top of that. And you said you were in veg yet you are giving bigbloom. I'm totally confused about what you are doing (and why).
I think you still aren't giving enough Ca...but as you say, calmag is on the way.
The little plant looks rootbound, overwatered, and looks like it may be a kush...they sorta grow droopy. Last part is just a guess...
JD
You said you are using soil nutrients. Is that soil with hydroton on the top?
I'm getting a feeling that you're heavy handed on the nute issues. Nothing personal...but with no particular reason you are wanting to double your Epsom salt dosage. Plus you're near the max recommended dose per instructions. Those are usually way high and rarely do people reach those levels. You are going to get into trouble if you keep bumping doses. It's having the proper ratio that you should be shooting for.
When planning a grow...you need to determine what water and where your Calcium and magnesium are coming from. That's the baseline...and nutes added on top of that. And you said you were in veg yet you are giving bigbloom. I'm totally confused about what you are doing (and why).
I think you still aren't giving enough Ca...but as you say, calmag is on the way.
The little plant looks rootbound, overwatered, and looks like it may be a kush...they sorta grow droopy. Last part is just a guess...
JD
min0r
Well-Known Member
there's no soil involved in this grow, i dont know what a hydroton is.
i can see how it looks i'm being heavy handed with nute issues, i don't plan to bump it up anymore than what it's at currently. i understand its about the proper ratio, i didn't plan out this grow at all, i've been winging it, i wanted to try hydro, but didn't have hydro nutes, so my impulsive self said fuck it and used soil nutrients that i had from my last grow, and started up using the kratky method. (if you dont know what that is i'll link a video to you)
i wanted to double my epsom salt dosage as someone said it looks mag deficient.
i stated in my last post i didn't understand why they want me to add so much bloom in, so i'm unsure why you brang that up.
yes, cal mag is on the way.
how can the plant be rootbound in water... and how can it be overwatered in hydro.
i know what strain i have, it's called Chocolate Frosted Sherbet bred by @HonestGenetics420 it's a cross between sunset sherb and chocolate frosting, and choclate frosting is a cross between norcal do-si-dos, and mint choc. chip. if you'd like to see what that looks like you can go here
i'm not as clueless as you seem to think i am.... not having the proper equipment is just messing me up.
i'll have my proper equipment by the end of the week, this includes airstones, jacks 321 nutes, an airpump, ppm meter, hydroguard, and of course my containers.
i think the drooping is a combination of my ppms being off, and root rot (i'm already treating the root rot, it's not severe on the plant i'm showing, at all.)
sorry for the confusion, as you can see this is (VERY) jury rigged.
Bernie420
Well-Known Member
you state your all ready treating for root rot (first you mentioned it) treating it how??
Bernie420
Well-Known Member
hydroton is those brown round balls and your not using soil so whats in the net pot inside the red cup = hydroton?
How are you using the netpot in the red cup? Do you hand feed these? are there drain holes in the bottom of the cup?
You DONT have a calcium problem by the way, i stated mag from the first pic but the other pics it looks overt watered to normal maybe a little lite on the mag, if it a true kush as the other guy stated they are kind of droopy anyways, at least the kush's I grew out were.
You know what you do is pick off the two leaves that your focusing on and bammo no problem anymore.
You sate ppm off being off but to me it doesn't sound like you have a ppm meter, so if you have no meter I would say to feed at 1/4 strength till you get one.
and tap water is like the worst to grow with in m experience when my ro filter went down so did my grow meaning I started to have problems then I fixed the ro filter and my problems went away.
AND what light are you using??
How are you using the netpot in the red cup? Do you hand feed these? are there drain holes in the bottom of the cup?
You DONT have a calcium problem by the way, i stated mag from the first pic but the other pics it looks overt watered to normal maybe a little lite on the mag, if it a true kush as the other guy stated they are kind of droopy anyways, at least the kush's I grew out were.
You know what you do is pick off the two leaves that your focusing on and bammo no problem anymore.
You sate ppm off being off but to me it doesn't sound like you have a ppm meter, so if you have no meter I would say to feed at 1/4 strength till you get one.
and tap water is like the worst to grow with in m experience when my ro filter went down so did my grow meaning I started to have problems then I fixed the ro filter and my problems went away.
AND what light are you using??
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Bernie420
Well-Known Member
I just put 1gr of epsom salt into 1 gal of r/o water with a ppm of 0 and got a ppm of 100 so if I do my math thingy then .25gr of epsom salt would only be 25 ppm's, do I have that right?
Seems low to me. I would do the .5gr if I was op to see if it helps any with the faded leaves.
Budzbuddha
Well-Known Member
How is that cup designed for your grow ?
Does it have drain holes ( Hempy ) ?
Or is it sitting in solution ( micro Rez ) at bottom of cup.
Because if it is .... you are suffocating it. DWC uses a bubbler to oxygenate solution.
Also NEVER .... NEVER use the feed schedule ( ec or ppm listed ) as gospel.
FF feed schedules are notoriously high in ratios. It is always better to start at 1/2 Strength ..
Sometimes at a 1/4 .... to judge how well “ your “ plants react not what is printed.
And in that MICRO CUP you will rootbound , and possibly stunt it . Do you plan to transplant in hydro or soil ?
Does it have drain holes ( Hempy ) ?
Or is it sitting in solution ( micro Rez ) at bottom of cup.
Because if it is .... you are suffocating it. DWC uses a bubbler to oxygenate solution.
Also NEVER .... NEVER use the feed schedule ( ec or ppm listed ) as gospel.
FF feed schedules are notoriously high in ratios. It is always better to start at 1/2 Strength ..
Sometimes at a 1/4 .... to judge how well “ your “ plants react not what is printed.
And in that MICRO CUP you will rootbound , and possibly stunt it . Do you plan to transplant in hydro or soil ?
min0r
Well-Known Member
i feel like this is the millionth time i've said this, they are not in soil.
i don't see whats so hard about reading my previous posts, anyway. i'm using the kratky method, you can find more on that here
i'm aware that fox farms feeding schedule is hot garbage, i used half nutes before and i was getting deficency's up the wazoo.
after upping my dose of N to 4tsp they still are deficient, so i'm assuming this is from rootrot, or lack of cal since cal does move around most nutrients in the plant.
i don't know how to answer your question, it's in water so i'd imagine it can't get rootbound? and i'm already in hydro, and it's staying that way.
sorry if it sounds i have a slight attitude in this message, i just woke up and i hate repeating myself.
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min0r
Well-Known Member
i've been dipping them in 2.5tsp 4% hydrogen peroxide/gal every morning, as well as giving the roots a good rinse.
inside the netcup is clay pebbles, or as you call them hydroton, yes.
the net pot is getting caught by the rim of the cup as it's 3in, and it has a small airspace, then water at the bottom of the cup that the roots drink up. click here for a better explanation
i don't know what you mean by hand feeding, and if i put drainholes in my cup the water would leak out and the roots would dry out then die. so no drain holes lol.
how can it be overwatered in hydro and are you sure there isnt a cal problem?? i'm 99.99% sure that's what it is, foxfarm's lineup contains little to no cal, and i don't really have a liable cal source atm, so it just makes sense to me.
if i fed at 1/4th stregnth my plants would perish from starvation, the salts build up at the bottom of the water, which is why i think i have to feed so much.
i'll start using bottled water instead of tap.
NrthrnMichigan
Well-Known Member
Plant to me looks oxygen deprived, overfed and ph'd incorrectly. What is the ph of your nute mix in the cup?
min0r
Well-Known Member
ph stays at 5.8, i ph once in the morning and once before i sleep. so every 12 hours. they dont go up past 6.10ph in the matter of time.
you're not wrong about oxygen deprived, once i get my equipment in by the end of the week all my problems should go away, if they arent dead by then.
how can it be overfed if it keeps asking for more?
NrthrnMichigan
Well-Known Member
How much nutrient are you mixing at a time? How often do you change the nute mix in the cup?
min0r
Well-Known Member
currently 4tsp grow big/gal & 2.5tsp bigbloom/gal
the res gets changed every 12 hours, along with the ph.