Myth or truth? Watering the last days

lykken

Member
Hi

I am gonna chop em ladies down in 2 days, but the soil is very dry, and the leafs are hanging down... I was told that the plant/buds will be more potent if They belive the will die...
So, shall I just wait it out 2 days, or give them some water... They do look like theywant some :)

Regards
Lykken
 

hymem

Well-Known Member
Water them with fresh water..... you do not want to trim bud on a plant that is wilted, its a nightmare. As for potency, its hard to believe that in the last 2 days anything drastic to increase potency can be done. At this point what you get is what you get. Anyone else agree/disagree?
 

jakeman311

Active Member
What happens when you dehydrate a plant in the last few days is the plants tries to protect itself from the uv and heat of your bulb. Its first line of defense would be transpiring through the leaves... kind of like when we sweat but once there is no water left in the medium that is no longer a option so instead it will push whatever it has left into crystal production which itself is a defense mechanism from light, being eaten by animals (except humans because we enjoy the side effects lol), etc. On the other hand you def dont want the plant to be crispy when you harvest there is a point of diminishing return and you actually mess the bud up if you wait to long. I would suggest just giving the plant just barely enough water to survive the next 2 days.
 

lykken

Member
Water them with fresh water..... you do not want to trim bud on a plant that is wilted, its a nightmare. As for potency, its hard to believe that in the last 2 days anything drastic to increase potency can be done. At this point what you get is what you get. Anyone else agree/disagree?
Well, I did a full watering today, what you say happend, they where gettting "Crisp" So, Even if I an gonna harvest tomorrow is a bit of a risk not worth taking IMO. This is my first harvest and
perheps when I am on my XXX harvest I may try experimenting but that is not today...
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
I hear one should just harvest the same day that their watering schedule would require the plants to be watered again. So if you water every 3 days, harvest 3 days after the last watering. This strikes a nicer balance between the plant being somewhat dry (less drying time), and not being so dry that it causes problems with the harvest.
 

zeroflash

Active Member
try flushing your plant 3 days before harvest then 24 hours before harvest stab a naiil through the main stem of the plant near the bottom and have the plant in complete darkness for 1 day then harvest, ii dont know the science behind it but a well expierienced grower taught me iit and i have no complaints =D
 

YOUNG BUCK

Well-Known Member
INFO BY GROWFAQ.

Contributed by: vaaran
Submitted: November 15th, 2004

Pre harvest flushing is a controversial topic. Flushing is supposed to improve taste of the final bud by either giving only pure water, clearing solutions or extensive flushing for the last 7-14 days of flowering. While many growers claim a positive effect, others deny any positive influence or even suggest reduced yield and quality.

The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds.

Until recently it was common thought that all nutrients are absorbed by plant roots as ions of mineral elements. However in newer studies more and more evidence emerged that additionally plant roots are capable of taking up complex organic molecules like amino acids directly thus bypassing the mineralization process.

The major nutrient uptake processes are:

1) Active transport mechanism into root hairs (the plant has to put energy in it, ATP driven) which is selective to some degree. This is one way the plant (being immobile) can adjust to the environment.

2) Passive transport (diffusion) through symplast to endodermis.




The claim only ‘chemical’ ferted plants need to be flushed should be taken with a grain of salt. Organic and synthetic ferted plants take up mineral ions alike, probably to a different degree though. Many influences play key roles in the taste and flavor of the final bud, like the nutrition balance and strength throughout the entire life cycle of the plant, the drying and curing process and other environmental conditions.

3) Active transport mechanism of organic molecules into root hairs via endocytosis.



Here is a simplified overview of nutrient functions:

Nitrogen is needed to build chlorophyll, amino acids, and proteins. Phosphorus is necessary for photosynthesis and other growth processes. Potassium is utilized to form sugar and starch and to activate enzymes. Magnesium also plays a role in activating enzymes and is part of chlorophyll. Calcium is used during cell growth and division and is part of the cell wall. Sulfur is part of amino acids and proteins.

Plants also require trace elements, which include boron, chlorine, copper, iron, manganese, sodium, zinc, molybdenum, nickel, cobalt, and silicon.

Copper, iron, and manganese are used in photosynthesis. Molybdenum, nickel, and cobalt are necessary for the movement of nitrogen in the plant. Boron is important for reproduction, while chlorine stimulates root growth and development. Sodium benefits the movement of water within the plant and zinc is neeeded for enzymes and used in auxins (organic plant hormones). Finally, silicon helps to build tough cell walls for better heat and drought tolerance.


You can get an idea from this how closely all the essential elements are involved in the many metabolic processes within the plant, often relying on each other.

Nutrient movement and mobility inside the plant:

Besides endocytosis, there are two major pathways inside the plant, the xylem and the phloem. When water and minerals are absorbed by plant roots, these substances must be transported up to the plant's stems and leaves for photosynthesis and further metabolic processes. This upward transport happens in the xylem. While the xylem is able to transport organic compounds, the phloem is much more adapted to do so.

The organic compounds thus originating in the leaves have to be moved throughout the plant, upwards and downwards, to where they are needed. This transport happens in the phloem. Compounds that are moving through the phloem are mostly:
Sugars as sugary saps, organic nitrogen compounds (amino acids and amides, ureides and legumes), hormones and proteins.


Not all nutrient compounds are moveable within the plant.

1) N, P, K, Mg and S are considered mobile: they can move up and down the plant in both xylem and phloem.
Deficiency appears on old leaves first.

2) Ca, Fe, Zn, Mo, B, Cu, Mn are considered immobile: they only move up the plant in the xylem.
Deficiency appears on new leaves first.


Storage organelles:

Salts and organic metabolites can be stored in storage organelles. The most important storage organelle is the vacuole, which can contribute up to 90% of the cell volume. The majority of compounds found in the vacuole are sugars, polysaccharides, organic acids and proteins though.


Translocation:

Now that the basics are explained, we can take a look at the translocation process. It should be already clear that only mobile elements can be translocated through the phloem. Immobile elements cant be translocated and are not more available to the plant for further metabolic processes and new plant growth.

Since flushing (in theory) induces a nutrient deficiency in the rootzone, the translocation process aids in the plants survival. Translocation is transportation of assimilates through the phloem from source (a net exporter of assimilate) to sink (a net importer of assimilate). Sources are mostly mature fan leaves and sinks are mostly apical meristems, lateral meristem, fruit, seed and developing leaves etc.

You can see this by the yellowing and later dying of the mature fan leaves from the second day on after flushing started. Developing leaves, bud leaves and calyxes don’t serve as sources, they are sinks. Changes in those plant parts are due to the deficient immobile elements which start to indicate on new growth first.

Unfortunately, several metabolic processes are unable to take place anymore since other elements needed are no longer available (the immobile ones). This includes processes where nitrogen and phosphorus, which have likely the most impact on taste, are involved.

For example nitrogen: usually plants use nitrogen to form plant proteins. Enzyme systems rapidly reduce nitrate-N (NO3-) to compounds that are used to build amino-nitrogen which is the basis for amino acids. Amino acids are building blocks for proteins, most of them are plant enzymes responsible for all the chemical changes important for plant growth.

Sulfur and calcium among others have major roles in production and activating of proteins, thereby decreasing nitrate within the plant. Excess nitrate within the plant may result from unbalanced nutrition rather than an excess of nitrogen.


Summary:

Preharvest flushing puts the plant(s) under serious stress. The plant has to deal with nutrient deficiencies in a very important part of its cycle. Strong changes in the amount of dissolved substances in the root-zone stress the roots, possibly to the point of direct physical damage to them. Many immobile elements are no more available for further metabolic processes. We are loosing the fan leaves and damage will show likely on new growth as well.

The grower should react in an educated way to the plant needs. Excessive, deficient or unbalanced levels should be avoided regardless the nutrient source. Nutrient levels should be gradually adjusted to the lesser needs in later flowering. Stress factors should be limited as far as possible. If that is accomplished throughout the entire life cycle, there shouldn’t be any excessive nutrient compounds in the plants tissue. It doesn’t sound likely to the author that you can correct growing errors (significant lower mobile nutrient compound levels) with preharvest flushing.

Drying and curing (when done right) on the other hand have proved (In many studies) to have a major impact on taste and flavour, by breaking down chlorophylls and converting starches into sugars. Most attributes blamed on unflushed buds may be the result of unbalanced nutrition and/or overfert and unproper drying/curing.
 

jdizzle22

Well-Known Member
Yeah that is why I said I'm no sold and would limit flushing to a week or less, with one big flush and the rest regular watering. In the future when I switch to a completely organic grow, I will probably completely do away with flushing, and feed up until that last 1 or 2 applications of water.
 

YOUNG BUCK

Well-Known Member
Well somebody repped me on this thread and left a phoney name that does not exist "SKUNKYBUD" ???????????


:lol::lol:
 

Touchet

New Member
i have never been a fan of flushing, its starving the pants and that simply cannot be good. If you've taken care of your beauties during veg and all the way up until now then there is no need for flushing aka starving them to squeeze out the last little bit of thc.

it is what it is, now let's smoke it.
 

YOUNG BUCK

Well-Known Member
i have never been a fan of flushing, its starving the pants and that simply cannot be good. If you've taken care of your beauties during veg and all the way up until now then there is no need for flushing aka starving them to squeeze out the last little bit of thc.

it is what it is, now let's smoke it.
Go back and read the FAQ i posted.
 

Touchet

New Member
Read my post, I read yours.

"The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds. "

I said if the plants are already at 100% there is no need for starving them to force crystals . For soil growers that only feed/water every other day or longer this process can be scary. I DO however stop using my hydro nutes as recommended by Dutch Master and use only ph balanced water the last week. When I brought this up at a grow class I was told by an instructoor that
"rockwool and hydroton both retain good amounts of the nutes all the way up until the 5th or 6th day of flushing. By using water and your normal feeding schedule you slowly tapper the plant of its nutes and to full water by day 7, the last day of the flushing schedule. This causes as little stress to the plants as possible as well as making sure the last of the nutes stored inside the plant make their way out. "

So according to him your not actually starving them until the actual last day or two of flushing. Take that info and the "FACT" you quoted and the info coincides to some extent. Now remember that everyone likes their flowers a little different, some harvest early, some late. This is the same for flushing. Flushing is another way of exploiting marijuana's natural growing characteristics. Just like training would be, flushing is a matter of personal preference. Having grown outside for a while I have never been a fan of trying to run gallons of water through my babies at once as is common in rookie flushing mistakes 101.
Each strain is different in how much water it likes and doesn't like, so I find it hard to have any sort of "FACTS" about growing that say I must do this or else. To me it's an art form making us all individual and unique.

And I have NEVER had any complaints, and NO my joints don't go out randomly.

I'm not disagreeing with the practice of flushing, just saying to each his own.
 

YOUNG BUCK

Well-Known Member
Read my post, I read yours.

"The theory of pre harvest flushing is to remove nutrients from the grow medium/root zone. A lack of nutrients creates a deficiency, forcing the plant to translocate and use up its internal nutrient compounds. "

I said if the plants are already at 100% there is no need for flushing aka starving them. I DO however stop using my nutes as recommended by Dutch Master and use only ph balanced water the last week. When I brought this up at a grow class I was told by an instructoor that
"rockwool and hydroton both retain good amounts of the nutes all the way up until the 5th or 6th day of flushing. By using water and your normal feeding schedule you slowly tapper the plant of its nutes and to full water by day 7, the last day of the flushing schedule. This causes as little stress to the plants as possible as well as making sure the last of the nutes stored inside the plant make their way out. "

I did and i value your opinion and as they say everyone to their own methods.


:peace:
 

hymem

Well-Known Member
Young Buck - Nice Info. There are so many myths that propagate through cannabis culture. We need to be more scientific in our efforts to grow top quality buds. Could I repost your repost? I am starting a website that is dedicated to a scientific approach to cannabis cultivation and this info would be very useful.
 

YOUNG BUCK

Well-Known Member
Young Buck - Nice Info. There are so many myths that propagate through cannabis culture. We need to be more scientific in our efforts to grow top quality buds. Could I repost your repost? I am starting a website that is dedicated to a scientific approach to cannabis cultivation and this info would be very useful.
Yes ok as long as you mention the input is from me saying "ORIGINALY POSTED BY YOUNG BUCK 5/6/2010" and i can supply you with any information you need from there.
Just let me know.

THANKS.

Y.B.
 

mr.smileyface

Well-Known Member
You dont have to flush unless you over juiced. Just leach by watering them. You dont have to do three gallons to one gallon medium.
From my own experiance.. Give them at least three waterings with plain water. RO'd preferd. Give them Karboboost or carboload on the first watering then plain watering next and so on.
This is no mystery or science. I do a ten day flush everytime. The first time i never flushed...I will never NOT flush again. Or "leach"
One week is fine. I give them a light does with just straight bloom and karboboost. (200ml AN bloom and 1OZ of Karboboost.) Per 25 gallons. Begin week 7 with that. water the next ten days after. Dont give them any bloom boosters. The last time you should give them bloom booster is the begining of week 6.
For 25 gallons on week 5,6 i add.... 100ml grow, 250ml micro , 400 bloom ,50ml KUSHIe Kush, 250ml Diamond nectar, 1 tablespoon rhino skin, 2 tbsp Karboboost. 1 Tbsp Koolbloom.
It seems to work great. This run a couple got over juiced. I think they got an extra second on the watering. 25 gallons goes every three days. I give plain water half way through the cycle. PK
 

mr.smileyface

Well-Known Member
How can your plant starve for the last week if you only give water? Soil grabs and holds nutes.
Dont forget water contains minerals. You plant doesnt starve. It just has to eat what it has left.
Try not to over water. Any water you bring in there will increase humidity. Water early in the day
Flushing does not improve tri's. It improves taste and burning.
DOnt flush one plant and see what happends
 
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