My Friend the Car Dealer Says...

redivider said:

yeah, throwing insults to make yourself feel better is ok... it's a natural reaction to being wrong.

you do not know the real intentions of the federal reserve bank, why it was put in place, and last but not least how they directly influence money supply. you do not understand the complexities of the markets, that's ok, not everyone can know as much as I do.

keep telling yourself whatever you want. you don't know me, where I've been or where I'm going.

you're just mad because i was able to prove that "nazi" obama was able to put in place a program that was VERY successful, in every way, shape and form... it scares you to death that this might be repeated.....

you have to deviate from the purpose of this thread and throw insults at my character, which naturally bounce off me, since stix and stones may break my bones but your words cannot hurt me.....

good bye....

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I'm rubber you're glue whatever you say bounces off of me and sticks to you. Are you serious? Man you got to be honest with me...You are one of those types that is just really feisty in the morning, huh? Maybe the first pot of coffee took a little took a little too long to brew?

Sorry if I left you feeling insulted.

naw dude, it was the other guy... this thread was real interesting....

take care guyz.... i'm outty, i didnt subscribe but sort of, i wont come back....

+rep to carnifreak for starting it, and nodrama for giving me a reason to make a point....

peace!!!

redivider said:

yeah, throwing insults to make yourself feel better is ok... it's a natural reaction to being wrong.

you do not know the real intentions of the federal reserve bank, why it was put in place, and last but not least how they directly influence money supply. you do not understand the complexities of the markets, that's ok, not everyone can know as much as I do.

keep telling yourself whatever you want. you don't know me, where I've been or where I'm going.

you're just mad because i was able to prove that "nazi" obama was able to put in place a program that was VERY successful, in every way, shape and form... it scares you to death that this might be repeated.....

you have to deviate from the purpose of this thread and throw insults at my character, which naturally bounce off me, since stix and stones may break my bones but your words cannot hurt me.....

good bye....

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I did not insult you, if you took it that way well tough shit. Your debate technique seems to be mostly straw man logical fallacies. Most of what you say I am am saying I am not. I never said shit about Obama, for all you know I think he's the messiah. I also never claimed that all people who got the loans would default, no one ever speaks in absolutes so stop trying to attribute things you say as my position when i clearly never said or aligned myself that way.You didn't prove anything either, you just tried to gloss it all over with some math, whoop dee doo daaah buddy, your just trying to steal the OP's thunder by opposing him and trying to come up with your own misguided theory.

I don't have a crystal ball,and its speculation on my part that the Car sales of next year were already sold this year to people who otherwise would not have purchased a car. So lets just wait and see shall we? If they have another " Gubbermint Program" you can be assured that the first one was an utter failure. I certainly never said it was for certain.

redivider said:

inflation will not hit double digits any time soon. the FED, that company many people hate, has actually been very successful at controlling inflation with its determination of interest rates, assuming that they will let inflation go out of control is absurd. it is not in their best interest, and being a company, they do have interests to protect.

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Inflation is primarily caused by an increase in the supply of money and credit.
When people have more dollars, they value each dollar less. Goods then rise in price, not because goods are scarcer than before, but because dollars are more abundant.
Keeping the interest rate artificially low, which causes malinvestment, is a big part of what got us into this mess. Also no more printing money!!!

Where are these people getting money to pay for gas? I wonder if people are driving less now?

redivider said:

i know someone that is involved in the secondary market for car electronics....

he gets each car ECM for 50-60 dollars a piece if he orders 100+...

so he spends: 5500 (55 for average x 100 computers)

each one of those goes for at least 200...

200 x 100 = 20,000

20,000 - 5500 = 14500 gross profit

minus 6,000 expenses

8500 income before taxes

8500 x 38% (more or less average amount of income taxes levied on corporatins) = 3230 in income taxes.

5,270 in income for that particular enterprise, 3,230 in taxes to the government. and 6,000 cash going to other corporations.....

win/win all around....

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Wouldn't the price go down since there are more available?
Wouldn't demand go down since there are less of those type of cars that need them?

here we go... my debating seems to be based on logic, using debating and conversing techniques that are used by members of academia worldwide...

you made certain assertions in your arguments that were based on speculation, giving plenty of obviously biased and misinformed "facts" ... i called them out and you get mad. i try to explain how something works and you refute my claim, not because you fully understand how things work, but because you read a page or two of literature and think to know more than me... i'll let you live in your own little world...

you say that i attended a community college and something about a bank teller, that to me is an insult, because it is an assumption that is again not backed by facts, just like all the other "facts" you throw out there. it is insulting that you waste my time by making me read that rubbish, and you should be ashamed for publishing such hogwash.

this again has turned into a name-calling game, and I refuse to play, you know why? because no matter how much you huff and puff and stomp, you realize the CARS program was a success, after you tried to use misinformation to defend it's "failure".

you refuse to admit you are wrong, which is the Republican way. You are right and every one has to agree with you, if not, you stuff it down someone's throat.

the Republican Kool-Aid bowl is still nice and full, drink on my friends, your thirst is unquenchable....

Parker said:

Wouldn't the price go down since there are more available?
Wouldn't demand go down since there are less of those type of cars that need them?

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no. part of the selling price includes warranty and replacement, among other things. so the price remains somewhat constant.

demand would go down a little bit, but the government did not remove all clunkers off the road. old american cars are notorious for damaging electronics, so the parts would need to remain in circulation for at least a few years. GM and Cryshler in particular use ECM's that are covered in a layer of goo, that prevents any sort of fixing of a damaged ECM, leaving the car owner with no choice but to replace it. Only a handful of companies, such as Mopar, have proprietary processes to remove this goo and repair these parts, and re-apply the goo. Using this process is cost-prohibitive for most people, so they just replace the part, and the damaged part is either discarded, or by some supply chain miracle gets to Mopar, who repairs it, and recycles it....

redivider said:

no. part of the selling price includes warranty and replacement, among other things. so the price remains somewhat constant.

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Tell your friend to drop the price since others most likely will imo. Especially if its something that can be bought on the internet. That's usually what happens in the free market with supply and demand. Unless the government gets involved like they did with houses and caused the prices to go up instead of down.

yeah, that business ain't mine, so he'll take care of all that crap...

Lets get the basics out of the way here shall we? Basically what redivider is trying to get everyone to believe is that the new cars will eventually make us money. Its just a smoke screen folks. The “cash for clunkers” program is a perfect example of how government policy can make the economy worse. By incentivizing Americans to destroy fully paid-for cars so they can go deeper into debt buying brand new ones, the government weakens an already crippled economy. The last thing we want to do is subsidize Americans to go deeper into debt by buying more stuff. Don’t you realize that is precisely the behavior that got us into this mess? And where do you suppose the government got this $4,500 dollars for each "Clunker"? Well they took that money from everyone else! Its all paid for by taxes, which will be paid for by borrowing from the future, they call it a deficit and eventually we will have to pay soooooo much interest on our debt that the economy will collapse once and for all.

This whole program was just another bailout of the car companies. And most people who did the program, would have bought a new car in the near future anyways. Who can go from driving a crap ass car, to a brand new one without consequence. Most these people will not be able to afford the payments, which will bring our economy further into the whole. And those looking to buy a new car, will just be waiting for the next handout before doing so. By destroying those "clunkers", used car prices are going to go way up. People who can't afford new cars, would have been happy with those 'clunkers". Or what about the 16 year olds, just getting their licenses, wanting a cheap, dependant vehicle? I believe this whole program was a disaster. Spending more of the taxpayers money, to bail out car companies, destroy assets, and make Americans even more dependant on the government to provide. Great thinking.

SDSativa said:

This whole program was just another bailout of the car companies. And most people who did the program, would have bought a new car in the near future anyways. Who can go from driving a crap ass car, to a brand new one without consequence. Most these people will not be able to afford the payments, which will bring our economy further into the whole. And those looking to buy a new car, will just be waiting for the next handout before doing so. By destroying those "clunkers", used car prices are going to go way up. People who can't afford new cars, would have been happy with those 'clunkers". Or what about the 16 year olds, just getting their licenses, wanting a cheap, dependant vehicle? I believe this whole program was a disaster. Spending more of the taxpayers money, to bail out car companies, destroy assets, and make Americans even more dependant on the government to provide. Great thinking.

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"bailout, smokescreen" all words propagated by the big red machine to make you believe something that is not true.

the government invested 3Billion dollars in a program that is expected to generate 4.5 billion dollars in 6 years(assuming the original cash back + established annuity compounds at a level lower than inflation), and much more money after that... even if the original money invested was borrowed, there is nothing "wasteful" about the government investing the money in it's own population, even more if it's to create cashflow within that population...

or is it that you believe that government actually investing tax dollars in it's population and helping circulate more money during a recession is wrong??

i already outlined the basics of how the program established good, positive cashflow within the united states and you still do not believe me.

you throw assumptions around such as: the price of used cars will be higher because there's less of them, our poor 16 year olds will have no cars to drive, it's ludicrous arguments, that again, are pure assumptions and speculations that not only make little to no sense, but are not based on any actual fact, study, or rational thinking.

your ignorance is not because of lack of knowledge, but by choice... you blindly defend what the red machine tells you without question...

that mentality is hopeless...

redivider said:

"Ok, so obviously that is not the correct equation for this situation, now is it? The break even point, according to the OP, is the point where money saved in oil consumption equals the money spent on the cash for clunkers program...of course you could look at many other factors in deciding whether or not cash for clunkers was a succesful program, but this is definitely one way to look at it. And the OP's math is correct, using the averages that he used. He figured out that it would save on average 733 million a year in oil consumption...So the break even point, when looking at the cost of the program in terms of money saved in oil consumption...is calculated by dividing the cost of the program, including interest, by the savings in oil consumption...which comes to about 5 years."

ok, you seem to forget that the 733 million dollars in savings is per year, and will continue long after the "break even point" (which you continue to misuse) is reached.

the 3 billion dollars was borrowed money, which will have to be paid back with interest, but the interest is FAR lower because the product sold was T.Bills. THey have very low interest rates, far lower than that the 733 million dollars per year would be able to gain in the open market within the United States...

keep drinking the kool aid my friends, ignorance is blisssssss........

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So in your first sentence you acknowledge the equation is wrong, and yet you continue to blather on.

Our interest rates are not made by us and T bills. The credit rating determines the interest. Our AAA credit rating is being questioned RIGHT NOW, exactly because of the wild spending Obama and Congress is doing.

Our credit will slide, our GDP is falling, our taxes are going up up up, our credit is going down down down.

Yes, it's all cupcakes and puppy dogs....

Ignorance sure must be bliss. You must be one happy mug.

CrackerJax said:

So in your first sentence you acknowledge the equation is wrong, and yet you continue to blather on.

Our interest rates are not made by us and T bills. The credit rating determines the interest. Our AAA credit rating is being questioned RIGHT NOW, exactly because of the wild spending Obama and Congress is doing.

Our credit will slide, our GDP is falling, our taxes are going up up up, our credit is going down down down.

Yes, it's all cupcakes and puppy dogs....

Ignorance sure must be bliss. You must be one happy mug.

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The first statement (in the quotation marks and bold type) is not redivider's statement. He was quoting a statement home36grown made on a previous page.

Hence the quotation marks. Do you not know what quotation marks are used for? It's pretty self-explanatory.

And you can't seem to follow posts well. Recheck if you wish, I am not in error.

CrackerJax said:

And you can't seem to follow posts well. Recheck if you wish, I am not in error.

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I have to agree with ya there CJ, Doob isn't good at following what people are saying lately, maybe he hasn't smoked a bowl yet?

And then their is poor redivider who believes that anyone with a different viewpoint MUST be a shill of the republican party, cuz he is so correct about it all and only republicans can be wrong, therefore he infers that everyone who disagrees with him is a republican. Unfortunately he is wrong on all counts since no one here is a republican. Were just good at seeing through the BS. And it wouldn't make one bit of difference if Bush had done this Or if Reagan had done this or if Clinton had done it, it still stinks.

Liberals always sway to and fro.... they have no anchor of truth. They follow flawed ideas and then wonder what went wrong later. Pointing fingers gets to be a habit.

"my friend the car dealer" should be an oxymoron imo

Ur thinking of the salesmen. Always good to know the actual owner.