More on the evils of capitalism.

abandonconflict said:

I don't drink alcohol, but if I did, I think I would prefer beer made by people who want me to enjoy it, not people who are worried about healthcare and rough traffic on the way home.

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Are people incapable of wanting you to enjoy their beer AND worrying about traffic? Your view of mankind as an either/or proposition instead of the sliding scale of reality has closed your mind.

You've exposed yourself as a very simplistic thinker in this thread.

ginwilly said:

I'm sorry learning, Chomsky hasn't addressed either as far as I can find. It's the missing link in anarchist theory. The assumption is we won't have bad people anymore because we won't be creating any. What to do with those that already exist is the answer better avoided. The house of cards falls apart with any credible answer.

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Who said that? I said we should stop rewarding them.

Only questions but no answers. The dirty secret is that Utopia can exist. It does exist. Soon these little Utopias may conquer death, itself or at least continue to postpone it farther. But, it can't be Utopia for all.

My life if something of a tiny utopia. So, I don't see any way that thinking creatures can have a metamorphosis. We already sqeeked thru a bottleneck of genetic doom and are really just a family gene pool, the species died out long ago. There is not enough genetic diversity to allow much more much evolution, I don't think.

The very mind we use to visualize these utopias is the very mind that makes the past, for example, seem better. More simple.

Some seem to think progress was forced by capitalism. Some think we are ruining the world, killing the planet. No, the planet is still killing us.

We got here because we stopped evolving. If you think these Green Verdant Jungle Edens were Utopia...only because their existance was stalled in place for 1000s of years. Oh, yes, a mindless utopia. Totally bound by taboo and the crazy old shaman. Life arranged, and taught not to think, at all, feel the forest and be ready to roll off a big cat from your back. Survival static utopia. Bound and gagged to the tribes ways, or shunned.

We get to espouse all these theories, --sm this and -ism that, only just recently did we fight and give ourselves free speech. And the world benefits. But Sharia claws are sharp. It is still ALL a simple cloak for the ways of power.

I have Utopia. I defined it, I created it myself. I keep it going and keep my dumb ass alive in it while I can. I had the luck of the draw and so did our President. Hierarchy will crush all silly theories into a horrid mess that has shown to lead to blood.

Best just accept the mind can come up with much more than is possible.

abandonconflict said:

How about you stop worshiping the invisible hand of Adam Smith.

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as hard as this may be to believe, some of us are able to coherently form and express their own opinions. You should try it too, you may surprise yourself.

ginwilly said:

as hard as this may be to believe, some of us are able to coherently form and express their own opinions. You should try it too, you may surprise yourself.

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Yet the assertion remains, greed will not create a better society. Your belief that it will is nothing more than faith in the "free-market". You worship the hand of Adam Smith as a god and force of benevolence that will magically bring "individual freedom". It will bring freedom to the fortune 500.

Your solution to the problems, MORE CAPITALISM! AUSTERITY! RIGID HIERARCHY!

Either that or deny the existence of problems.

ginwilly said:

Are people incapable of wanting you to enjoy their beer AND worrying about traffic? Your view of mankind as an either/or proposition instead of the sliding scale of reality has closed your mind.

You've exposed yourself as a very simplistic thinker in this thread.

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Occum's razor?

ginwilly said:

You've exposed yourself as a very simplistic thinker in this thread.

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Deciphering...


"If you don't love capitalism, you just don't understand it."

SlaveNoMore said:

Occum's razor?

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Damnit!! well played..

Occum's razor...

You're the one assuming that survival of the fittest is a proper description of natural selection.

Because I do not make this assumption, I must be making some other assumption?

abandonconflict said:

Deciphering...


"If you don't love capitalism, you just don't understand it."

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forgive me for the cheapshot there, but no

I'm not up for rolling in the mud right now, maybe later

why do you have to keep changing what I'm saying into something you can argue with, instead of just arguing with what I'm actually saying?

edit: I admire your stamina, I can't hang on this merry-go-round of asking the same question over again in different forms hoping against hope that you'll actually answer it. You have beat me into submission with your fortitude. Just wondering out loud, does this make you evil?

ginwilly said:

why do you have to keep changing what I'm saying into something you can argue with

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Actually, that has been your tactic several times. There was no distortion in post #87.

abandonconflict said:

Occum's razor...

You're the one assuming that survival of the fittest is a proper description of natural selection.

Because I do not make this assumption, I must be making some other assumption?

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I don't know who you are addressing but I wasn't attacking you. I was saying that being called a "simplistic thinker" fits the description of Occum's razor. Right or wrong. If you weren't talking to me then disregard.

Over and out-

SlaveNoMore said:

I don't know who you are addressing but I wasn't attacking you. I was saying that being called a "simplistic thinker" fits the description of Occum's razor. Right or wrong. If you weren't talking to me then disregard.

Over and out-

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I know. He was accusing me of making assumptions (about human nature) and generally dismissing me as stupid.

ginwilly said:

I can't hang on this merry-go-round of asking the same question over again in different forms hoping against hope that you'll actually answer it.

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When a question makes an inference, any answer to it also makes the inference.

abandonconflict said:

Occum's razor...

You're the one assuming that survival of the fittest is a proper description of natural selection.

Because I do not make this assumption, I must be making some other assumption?

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No, honestly i just wanna know how we'll deal with fuckheads in our utopia, like i've been saying for days. After all this effort wasted in futility I no longer give a shit. You have dominated me with your dogged avoidance of that simple concept's existence and an attempt to offer a solution to this problem.

ginwilly said:

No, honestly i just wanna know how we'll deal with fuckheads in our utopia, like i've been saying for days. After all this effort wasted in futility I no longer give a shit. You have dominated me with your dogged avoidance of that simple concept's existence and an attempt to offer a solution to this problem.

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Stop rewarding them.

abandonconflict said:

It overwhelmingly suggests mutual aid as the most beneficial for all involved. Stop being afraid that someone is going to fuck you over.

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I tried that. Guess what! I got fucked over 3 times out of 5.

I agree with ginwilly; your vision is very attractive.
But it has failed my experience test.

Here is the bottom line: How do I "decolonize" (vague, vague!) my mind with much less risk? cn
cn

You know what?

Fuck everybody.

I'm with you guys, I'm going to see how profitable being a bastard is.

I'm going Ayn Rand up in this bitch. Capitalism is the answer. The world needs less trees and more ass holes.

SlaveNoMore said:

Occum's razor?

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Occam posited the simplest that still accounts for all the facts. "Simplistic" happens when the inconvenient facts get pruned. Jmo. cn

So far I gotta say AC has made some valid points. I share your belief of a mutually beneficial cooperative society as being plausible but I also admit there is a difficulty accepting that such an "enlightenment" will happen. It is possible but as of now improbable...necessity is often the driving factor of change. Many don't see the benefits of an alternative-mutually-cooperative model due to the lack of its practice, application, and to my knowledge its existence.

I don't think human nature is ever fixed. It is dynamic as all things that have a beginning and end. People choose to perform "self-gaining" actions because that is the status quo. If my success was not hindered by my neighbors success and we both gained, I am sure we would be happier cooperating/winning together. But since resources are finite-in the supply demand model greed creates more greed as people need a means to survive. Also the world population increasing so "exponentially." That is why I believe education is the key. Start with the youths and older ideologies fade out. But again this is very high-level-top-down thinking. There are many other problems in bringing forth this sort of "enlightenment".