Molasses dosage.

Nullis said:

This is quite ironic, because it turns out that excessive amounts of the elements found in molasses such as magnesium and copper will actually contribute to a harsher smoke.
Ideally you would use molasses throughout the entire grow, except for the last couple weeks. You could also find a brand with lesser mineral content.

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Nice post. Exactly correct about not using molasses in the last two weeks. Happy buds don't need sweetening, they should express the true nature of the strain.

Nullis said:

Sugars themselves are most likely beneficial in a living soil environment. Decomposing, nitrogen fixing and other symbiotic bacteria are capable of utilizing and might even require sugars as a food source, which they would obtain from root exudates in nature. Sugars are rapidly metabolized, unlike other food sources for microbes such as cellulose and lignin.

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I agree that sugars can be beneficial to living soil (in moderation of course), and are not likely to accumulate. You should have more rep considering all the help you give ,and straight forward answers, without a jerk attitude...

I know I'm a little late chimming in here but people need to realize that if they buy there soil then chances are molasses won't have any effect because the micro-organisms are already dead and it won't work in hydro, it'll just gum up your res. If you make your own soil and compost you'll have better results.

420God said:

I know I'm a little late chimming in here but people need to realize that if they buy there soil then chances are molasses won't have any effect because the micro-organisms are already dead and it won't work in hydro, it'll just gum up your res. If you make your own soil and compost you'll have better results.

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That is true. If someone does not have 'living soil' molasses will not be beneficial to them, or more accurately, molasses will not be beneficial to their plants, since it has to benefit plants before it can benefit tokers. Molasses is a good, quick source of energy for the various forms of microbes and soil life in a compost pile or good 'living soil.' In 'dead soil' it is a horse of a different color.

Brick Top said:

That is true. If someone does not have 'living soil' molasses will not be beneficial to them, or more accurately, molasses will not be beneficial to their plants, since it has to benefit plants before it can benefit tokers. Molasses is a good, quick source of energy for the various forms of microbes and soil life in a compost pile or good 'living soil.' In 'dead soil' it is a horse of a different color.

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Right, who grows in dead soil? That would seem ass-backwards. If you are growing in soil, and there is no microbes, then something is VERY wrong. Molasses is also much more than just carbs.

"Blackstrap molasses
(Note: "--" indicates data is unavailable)
amount 2.00 tsp
total weight 13.67 g
Basic Components
nutrient amount %DV
calories 32.12 1.78
calories from fat 0.00
calories from saturated fat 0.00
protein 0.00 g 0.00
carbohydrates 8.31 g 2.77
dietary fiber 0.00 g 0.00
soluble fiber 0.00 g
insoluble fiber 0.00 g
sugar - total 5.85 g
monosaccharides 2.09 g
disaccharides 3.68 g
other carbs 2.46 g
fat - total 0.00 g 0.00
saturated fat 0.00 g 0.00
mono fat 0.00 g 0.00
poly fat 0.00 g 0.00
trans fatty acids 0.00 g
cholesterol 0.00 mg 0.00
water 3.92 g
ash 1.12 g
Vitamins
nutrient amount %DV
vitamin A IU 0.00 IU 0.00
vitamin A RE 0.00 RE
A - carotenoid 0.00 RE 0.00
A - retinol 0.00 RE
A - beta carotene 0.00 mcg
thiamin - B1 0.00 mg 0.00
riboflavin - B2 0.01 mg 0.59
niacin - B3 0.15 mg 0.75
niacin equiv 0.15 mg
vitamin B6 0.10 mg 5.00
vitamin B12 0.00 mcg 0.00
biotin -- mcg --
vitamin C 0.00 mg 0.00
vitamin D IU 0.00 IU 0.00
vitamin D mcg 0.00 mcg
vitamin E alpha equiv 0.00 mg 0.00
vitamin E IU 0.00 IU
vitamin E mg 0.00 mg
folate 0.14 mcg 0.04
vitamin K -- mcg --
pantothenic acid 0.12 mg 1.20
Minerals
nutrient amount %DV
boron -- mcg
calcium 117.53 mg 11.75
chloride -- mg
chromium -- mcg --
copper 0.28 mg 14.00
fluoride -- mg --
iodine -- mcg --
iron 2.39 mg 13.28
magnesium 29.38 mg 7.34
manganese 0.36 mg 18.00
molybdenum -- mcg --
phosphorus 5.47 mg 0.55
potassium 340.57 mg 9.73
selenium 2.43 mcg 3.47
sodium 7.52 mg 0.31
zinc 0.14 mg 0.93"

http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrientprofile&dbid=85

Brick Top said:

That is true. If someone does not have 'living soil' molasses will not be beneficial to them,

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How do you define ´living soil´, may I ask ?

Spanishfly said:

How do you define ´living soil´, may I ask ?

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This question gets to the root of half the arguments here. All of these natural grow medias can/do/will host microbes.

"We"* tend to refer to a "soil" as a grow media that contains enough food amendments so as liquid food is unnecessary. But this is a grossly narrow definition of "soil", and is confusing as all natural grow media is commonly called soil. ie happy frog, ocean forest, BioTerra Plus, sunshine, ect.

"We"* tend to refer to any soil that does not contain all food required for growth in slow-release form to be a "soil-less" media. This is IMO a misnomer.

There is no line between soil and soil-less as "We" tend to believe. If you are deriving 95% of your nutrition from slow release via the soil-food-web and 5% from another source, then you grow in soil. If you are deriving 5% of your nutrition from slow release via the soil-food-web, and 95% from another source, then you too grow in soil. Even subcools recipe starts with a store bought peat base (roots), at what point does this become a living soil? The answer is it always was.

*referring to the organic outdoor folks, of which i do not include myself.

Matt Rize said:

This question gets to the root of half the arguments here. All of these natural grow medias can/do/will host microbes.

"We"* tend to refer to a "soil" as a grow media that contains enough food amendments so as liquid food is unnecessary. But this is a grossly narrow definition of "soil", and is confusing as all natural grow media is commonly called soil. ie happy frog, ocean forest, BioTerra Plus, sunshine, ect.

"We"* tend to refer to any soil that does not contain all food required for growth in slow-release form to be a "soil-less" media. This is IMO a misnomer.

There is no line between soil and soil-less as "We" tend to believe. If you are deriving 95% of your nutrition from slow release via the soil-food-web and 5% from another source, then you grow in soil. If you are deriving 5% of your nutrition from slow release via the soil-food-web, and 95% from another source, then you too grow in soil. Even subcools recipe starts with a store bought peat base (roots), at what point does this become a living soil? The answer is it always was.

*referring to the organic outdoor folks, of which i do not include myself.

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Thanks for the answer, but it does not really address the question.

If the soil came from a bag it was heated and everything in that bag was killed, therefore it's dead soil.

If you make your own compost than it still has many of the living micoorganism that can benefit a plant and molasses is food to them and in turn food for the plant.

Without the living microorganisms in the soil molasses becomes nothing more than trace minerals for your plant and it won't make much if any of a difference.

420God said:

If the soil came from a bag it was heated and everything in that bag was killed, therefore it's dead soil.

If you make your own compost than it still has many of the living micoorganism that can benefit a plant and molasses is food to them and in turn food for the plant.

Without the living microorganisms in the soil molasses becomes nothing more than trace minerals for your plant and it won't make much if any of a difference.

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My soil is last year´s - AND the year before´s - recycled through my composter - with green and brown materials added (iaw traditional and long established compost making techniques) as they become available.

What appears after a year or more is a dark, nutritious humus, full of humic acid and teeming with beneficial bacteria. I refresh that with some wormcasts and/or horse manure, perlite and lime. It is definitely a ´living soil´ then as others have defined.

BUT, as I have said, I have found that adding molasses makes NO DIFFERENCE whatever. Plants that have been given molasses are absolutely no different to those that haven´t - buds are just the same size.

But I get some good results anyway

View attachment 1217284

This girl yielded 17.8 ounces

View attachment 1217285

Some jealous person (who hasn´t posted any grow pics) recently called me a TROLL - sorry, I try to justify what I say.

Spanishfly said:

My soil is last year´s - AND the year before´s - recycled through my composter - with green and brown materials added (iaw traditional and long established compost making techniques) as they become available.

What appears after a year or more is a dark, nutritious humus, full of humic acid and teeming with beneficial bacteria. I refresh that with some wormcasts and/or horse manure, perlite and lime. It is definitely a ´living soil´ then as others have defined.

BUT, as I have said, I have found that adding molasses makes NO DIFFERENCE whatever. Plants that have been given molasses are absolutely no different to those that haven´t - buds are just the same size.

But I get some good results anyway

View attachment 1217284

This girl yielded 17.8 ounces

View attachment 1217285

Some jealous person (who hasn´t posted any grow pics) recently called me a TROLL - sorry, I try to justify what I say.

Click to expand...

Your soil/compost is probably offering everything your plant needs so you won't see much, if any, difference.

Molasses is not a miricale fertilizer and does not add flavor to buds. It only feeds the soil allowing for easier/better uptake of food for the plant.

I've seen your grow and I'm very jealous you are so much closer to the equator. Beautiful looking girl!

420God said:

Your soil/compost is probably offering everything your plant needs so you won't see much, if any, difference.

Molasses is not a miricale fertilizer and does not add flavor to buds. It only feeds the soil allowing for easier/better uptake of food for the plant.

I've seen your grow and I'm very jealous you are so much closer to the equator. Beautiful looking girl!

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Thanks for the kind comments 420god . +rep to you. Peace, bro.

420God said:

Your soil/compost is probably offering everything your plant needs so you won't see much, if any, difference.

Molasses is not a miricale fertilizer and does not add flavor to buds. It only feeds the soil allowing for easier/better uptake of food for the plant.

I've seen your grow and I'm very jealous you are so much closer to the equator. Beautiful looking girl!

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2 things

1. Krebs cycle...
2. Third Stage of Floral Maturity....


the Krebs cycle allows for the uptake of the additional carbs..... mollases does add flavor/ smell but it only accentuates the flavor ill agree that a living soil is the only time to really use it but to say the plant does not uptake a flavor from the extra carbs is just silly i only apply carbs twice in veg 1tbsp/gal to boost micro's then 3 times between day 30-45 of bloom 2tbsp/gal otherwise there iss not much of a change and its a waste to over due it

420God said:

If the soil came from a bag it was heated and everything in that bag was killed, therefore it's dead soil.

If you make your own compost than it still has many of the living micoorganism that can benefit a plant and molasses is food to them and in turn food for the plant.

Without the living microorganisms in the soil molasses becomes nothing more than trace minerals for your plant and it won't make much if any of a difference.

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INCORRECT. In fact, most of these bagged potting mixes have inoculants added to them after sterilization. JustRight Xtra is an example of a new bag mix that advertises GH inoculant content.

Spanishfly said:

My soil is last year´s - AND the year before´s - recycled through my composter - with green and brown materials added (iaw traditional and long established compost making techniques) as they become available.

What appears after a year or more is a dark, nutritious humus, full of humic acid and teeming with beneficial bacteria. I refresh that with some wormcasts and/or horse manure, perlite and lime. It is definitely a ´living soil´ then as others have defined.

BUT, as I have said, I have found that adding molasses makes NO DIFFERENCE whatever. Plants that have been given molasses are absolutely no different to those that haven´t - buds are just the same size.

But I get some good results anyway

This girl yielded 17.8 ounces


Some jealous person (who hasn´t posted any grow pics) recently called me a TROLL - sorry, I try to justify what I say.

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Fly- we all know that you are far from a troll. I think your experience with molasses is similar to the other "real soil" growers, in that your media is so dialed that nothing can really make it any better. For those of us growing in a "soil-less soil" keeping the microbes happy is much more difficult, and this is when molasses can come in handy for those of us with less than ideal media for microbes. IMO

Matt Rize said:

INCORRECT. In fact, most of these bagged potting mixes have inoculants added to them after sterilization. JustRight Xtra is an example of a new bag mix that advertises GH inoculant content.

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Oh, my bad. I've never bought soil so I'm not much of an expert on it. I just know that a lot of purchased soil is not quite as good as if you were make it yourself. I think most growers can agree on that.

Subs Super Soil..... yep yep

My compost mix has been working for me pretty good also.
I use molasses every watering because I can and it can only benefit the plant if it does work.

I get excellent results growing organically using molasses until last 3 weeks. I only use 1/2 tsp gal per watering. As mentioned, if your soil is not alive, you're wasting mollasses. Science backs up using mollasses, not "did side by side and saw no difference using mollasses", anecdotal posts you will read.

Matt Rize, thanks for the pleasant comment - +rep.

Spanishfly said:

My soil is last year´s - AND the year before´s - recycled through my composter - with green and brown materials added (iaw traditional and long established compost making techniques) as they become available.

What appears after a year or more is a dark, nutritious humus, full of humic acid and teeming with beneficial bacteria. I refresh that with some wormcasts and/or horse manure, perlite and lime. It is definitely a ´living soil´ then as others have defined.

BUT, as I have said, I have found that adding molasses makes NO DIFFERENCE whatever. Plants that have been given molasses are absolutely no different to those that haven´t - buds are just the same size.

But I get some good results anyway

View attachment 1217284

This girl yielded 17.8 ounces

View attachment 1217285

Some jealous person (who hasn´t posted any grow pics) recently called me a TROLL - sorry, I try to justify what I say.

Click to expand...

Spanishfly -

I'm not touting molasses as some miracle product, but I do have a few points to make here.

1. It sounds like you have established a very healthy compost setup over the years, and I have no doubt that your soil mix contains a very diverse and complete feed for your plants. The additional micronutrients from the molasses are probably unnecessary to plants growing in this medium, and there are plenty of natural carbs in the stuff, so that the microbes are already happily contributing to the soil. You have to understand that many growers don't have a system like this in place, and their soil may be starving for carbs or micros. I personally wish I had the time and dedication to have a setup like the one you describe for my vegetable or MJ gardens.

2. I very much doubt the "flavor enhancing" properties that are sometimes touted. Even if the plant is actually intaking these extra carbs and is not converting the carbs to energy, thereby simply dumping fructose or glucose into the buds, it's not going to taste better. Has anyone ever burnt sugar while making caramel or some very sugary food? The result is one of the nastiest things you will ever taste/smell. Considering the previously mentioned fact that adding trace minerals at the end of a grow is NOT desired as it can make the smoke more harsh, using molasses at the end seems(to me) like a bad idea all around.

3. I've read a whole bunch of your posts and please don't take this as a criticism or a negative comment, but you appear to be using "whatever" while attempting to convey "whatsoever".