Mixed organic dry nuts with coco - waste of time?

Hi all. Yet another first time grower here so thank you in advance for your patience.

Briefly my set up is:
2ft x 3ft tent
108w actual output full spectrum led
2x 11 litre fabric pots
Growing in Canna Coco with 25-30% perlite
Will be growing autoflowers (I have a selection of Royal Queen Seeds' autos seeds)

Initially I wanted to keep it as simple as possible (ie not having the complication of mixing nutes) and so bought Royal Queen Seeds' Organic Boost nutrition (dry organic nutrition pellets): https://www.royalqueenseeds.com/growing/334-easy-boost-organic-nutrition.html

I was informed by the breeder/supplier that this is fine for coco - I have since been told this is a completely sub par choice and will be hard to properly manage nutrient uptake caused by using something slow-release and organic in coco.

Unfortunately I had already mixed 50l of this with coco and perlite by the time I started my first two grow attempts, neither of which have produced a seedling with a leaf yet out of 4 seeds used.

So, I'm about to start again on another grow attempt. Do I just throw away all the 50l+ litres of coco that's I've got mixed with these pellets, start with fresh coco, then just grow with Canna A+B nutrients (which I already own but never used)?

I'm feeling rather demotivated by the crap start I have had and finding out my medium+nutrition is nonsensical hasn't helped. I hate the idea of wasting all the coco and the money spent but after a terrible start I don't want to make my life harder by attempting to grow with it only to have to manage problems later (with my zero experience).

Many thanks for any help or advice!

For a plant to die so soon is don't even show leaves I doubt the only problem comes from the nutes you're using.
Your germination method is likely the cause. How do you do it?

Usually, I put my seeds into wet paper towel, fold it in half to cover the seed then put the wet towel in an unsealed baggy.
Throw a rag over it to keep it dark and in a few days you should see a root.
Once the root is like 1/2" or a bit more than 1cm they're ready for planting.

What I do to have an even better surviving rate is pre moisten my grow medium by pouring 6.5ph corrected water in the soil
and mixing by hand until it's nice and damp but still somewhat fluffy.
You want to avoid lumps or turning it into mud!

Poke a small hole in the center of the pot with a pen, drop the seed root first into the hole and pinch the soil ever so slightly to gently close the hole around the seed and just let it go!
your seedling will poke out in a few days and has got enough water for a long time!
hope this helps!

Thank you for taking the time to reply!

Yes I didn't mention my germ method as didn't want to overface with a huge post but my germ attempts so far:

2 seeds in a small LED propagator box in small soil pellets - one seed sprouted within 24h but the batteries in the LED died (I know...) so it stretched to 5cm+ then died. The other seed seemed to have germed then stopped, may have still been viable but I didn't wait it out.

Second attempt was as you described - 18h in glass of water, germed on paper towel, carefully planted both once c. 1cm taproots showing into pre-soaked coco, the top half of which I had fluffed up to a lighter consistency post watering. I think I only planted about 5-10mm deep which was too shallow - the seed which did break the surface still had the case on (quite tightly, preventing any light from hitting the top). I gently prized off the case with tweezers, the cotyledon was just beginning to open but seemingly dead as after a further 24h under light it hadn't changed at all. I believe conditions in my tent are good and with it being small I can change them as I please but am maintaining 73-77F, 60% RH, a very light level of extraction and two fans for internal circulation.

One thing I will confess is that I do not have a working PH pen at the moment, but I PH'd my tap water multiple times a couple of weeks back and it was 7.1PH and .5 EC - we have hard water but v little chlorine in it. While experimenting a couple of weeks ago I found that a tiny drop of PH down (ie just enough to break the surface tension and release a droplet through the small pouring hole) would take the PH in 1 litre of water down to 6.4~. Now without my working PH meter I was conservative and put in 2 droplets to the ~4 litres I used to pre moisten so it was likely around the 6.7 mark. Like you intimated though, I dont think my failing was a PH/nutrient issue. I should have another PH pen arriving tomorrow which will remove that as a factor of uncertainty though.

I think with the germination I need both more practice and patience, if I have to burn a few seeds to learn then that's okay.

I still remain unsure on whether it's a good idea for me to be progressing with those nutes in coco though? I don't want to finally make it to the veg stage only to have an uphill battle because I have chosen a fundamentally compromised nute+medium combo.

well what's strange is that seedling have a small quantity of food stored and can go on their own for around one week.
so not enough food shouldn't be the problem.
Too much food would burn the leaf tips (hard to tell without photo of the dying seedling)
you didn't mention any burn so we should be clear here too.

About the seed shell being still on, that happens often and it will shed it off naturally!
Growing weed is a hobby that teaches patience!
you can help out a bit if you see the shell dangling, but at this point they're so frail you could damage them with the slightest touch

Maybe try one more time with fresh batteries in your led propagator
and just lay back smoking fatties for the first week waiting for them to get a bit stronger before starting to mess with them
if you got more things to ask pictures would help!
Wish you the best mate!

I remember during my first few grows, I was so damn stressed out about my seedlings.
I would look at them as often as possible spending all my free time worrying about their growth speed, the slightly different green shade in one spot and shit like that.
Leaving them be for the first week without worrying too much about them is one of the best change in tactic I ever did hahaha

wowlitty said:

Unfortunately I had already mixed 50l of this with coco and perlite by the time I started my first two grow attempts, neither of which have produced a seedling with a leaf yet out of 4 seeds used.
......... I hate the idea of wasting all the coco and the money spent

Click to expand...

Chuck it, 70l of coco is only $5, 20l of perlite another $5.
That's the price of 2-3 seeds.
Coco and organic products don't really go well together.

Or use it in the garden to chuck on your tomatoes or improve your flower beds/lawn.

Thank you again for the replies, I am feeling more reassured.

Cannaprentice - there were no leaves, I think I incorrectly said 'cotyledon'. There was a short stem of about 3cm poking out of the ground with a small white/grey lump on. The lump had the slightest slit in it where leaves would have opened from. I tried to take a pic of it but it doesnt show well at all. I will show more patience next time, I'm just in a rush because I will only be in a position to grow until august and won't have another chance for potentially years after that.

sarahJane211 - Thank you. I think I will be throwing it out. If only my costs were as low as those though, where I live prices are 4x those as stocks have depleted from all the ppl working on their gardens during corona. Luckily I have a 50l sack of Canna Coco Natural spare.

A further query about watering coco: the top layer of it seems to dry out within hours (but still wet through lower). If I switch to Canna A+B fertigation, presumably I have to wait until most of it is dry and can't just top up the upper layer with water because salts will build up without run-off?

My favorite Coco link.

Thank you. I have read and made mental notes on all of it! Just need the PH pen to arrive now... I still havent caved in and gone for an expensive one but $50+ one but perhaps against my better judgement given how easily the last broke.

The next attempt will have to be in 100% coco no perlite if im to start it soon but I see that is not much of an issue.

wowlitty said:

Thank you. I have read and made mental notes on all of it! Just need the PH pen to arrive now... I still havent caved in and gone for an expensive one but $50+ one but perhaps against my better judgement given how easily the last broke.

The next attempt will have to be in 100% coco no perlite if im to start it soon but I see that is not much of an issue.

Click to expand...

To me that's expensive, I pay $5 for a PH pen.
I grow in coco + 30% perlite, not had any problems so far (apart from my plants getting too big.
(this one got so big I had to create it's own grow area nearly 4' x 4')

My suggestion is never mix organic or dry ferts with coco. Liquid nutes only. Perlite and coco are suitable for growing medium. Just really light and may require more frequent watering.

The weed tuber "Mr Canuck's grow" seems to have great success using coco and organic slow release ferts (gaia green)
Now I never heard about RQS's slow release nutes and don't know how they compare to gaia green.
But even though I reckon it's far from popular, it seems to work absolutely amazing for the dude I'm talking about.
He's getting some serious weight of serious dank from this coco/organic strategy.

Now for a noobie, probably liquid nutes are the easiest?
In any case, less is more, don't overfeed, everybody did it at some point.

MICHI-CAN - Thank you and noted. I am potting up some Canna Coco Natural now, though will be running without perlite this time.

Cannaprentice - Yes I have seen his videos! Though it does initially look more involved than straight liquid nutes and he clearly has a well refined, well funded operation/method.

So adding to the impatience is that my PH meter that was supposed to arrive on saturday still hasn't. Do I:

1. pre-soak it in tap water, which will be about 7.1, then PH once it needs nutes and by which time I should have a PH tester
2. lose a few more days waiting for it to arrive
3. use tap water but guess how much PH down

Probably opting for 2. But I hate the dead time

option 3 is the one you wanna avoid at all cost haha
Option 2 is the wisest,
but I got to admit, I already used non ph corrected water for the first watering once when I had lended my ph pen to a friend.
But I'm using soil and it tends to buffer the ph a bit.
I don't have the experience to know how bad it would be to do the exact same when growing in coco

I did opt for number 2.

I now have a PH pen and some litmus strips for testing in worst case scenario if it breaks.

I soaked two seeds in a cup of water for 12 hours last week thinking I was going to germinate them but bailed and took them out, neither showed any sign of opening up. I have now re-soaked those two in water and wet paper toweled them.

^That was nearly 3 days ago. The first seed opened after 24 hours and the tap root emerged to ~3mm after 48h - however the taproot has not grown at all in the last 24 hours.

The other seed opened after 48 hours, but again has done nothing in the last 24h hours. I am checking them no more frequently than once every 12 hours to make sure the tissue isn't drying out (it will dry out in 18 hours unchecked). I took care to not touch the seed or expose them to anything but minimal light.

I now have 2 seeds which have popped but made no progress in the last 24 hours - do I wait longer or are these dead? I certainly dont have the time or space to plant them on the hope they're okay - I have to germinate seeds in my grow tent itself as no where else in the house stays warm enough.

This is getting demotivating and I am not quite sure what I did wrong?

don't worry, just wait some more, it takes a few days to grow enough
What's the strain&breeder?

That's encouraging really, I seemed to get the sense that most people expect consistent growth of the taproot once it pops, and the uncertain/timely bits were how long for it to crack open initially, and how long to break surface depending on how deep the seed was planted. I will leave them be for now.


Hoping to get a seed into a pot by the end of this week haha! Will then start a proper diary rather than bumping this post with my daily troubles!