Mitigate issue of seedlings in 'Hot' soil?

Overgrowtho

Overgrowtho

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately I may be having a problem right now, with my Wedding Cake Fem seedlings.

I may have used a bit too "hot" soil mix. I used: 1 part super soil, 1 part store-bought topsoil + a handful of vermiculite, pertlite and dolomite.

As you can see in the photo, the seedling appears to be stressed. Does this look like it is due to hot soil (or something else)?

If so, what can I do to mitigate? Such as for example: keeping watering to a minimum to reduce EC? or anything else? I really have no clue here!

I am planning to top up the soil more, so the stem will be covered too. Using regular top soil. Or is that even a bad idea?

Perhaps next time I should really start in my jiffy pellets and then only transplant to semi-rich soil when the roots are more established?
 
Overgrowtho said:
Unfortunately I may be having a problem right now, with my Wedding Cake Fem seedlings.

I may have used a bit too "hot" soil mix. I used: 1 part super soil, 1 part store-bought topsoil + a handful of vermiculite, pertlite and dolomite.

As you can see in the photo, the seedling appears to be stressed. Does this look like it is due to hot soil (or something else)?

If so, what can I do to mitigate? Such as for example: keeping watering to a minimum to reduce EC? or anything else? I really have no clue here!

I am planning to top up the soil more, so the stem will be covered too. Using regular top soil. Or is that even a bad idea?

Perhaps next time I should really start in my jiffy pellets and then only transplant to semi-rich soil when the roots are more established?
Click to expand...

I am going to guess adding the dolomite directly is your problem. That needs a few months to break down and cook. It is used to raise the PH of soil that is too acidic. Was there a reason you added this to your soil?

I would definitely start with jiffy pellets next time, and then transplant into either just the garden soil in a small pot or solo cup. Then once they have filled up those cups, transplant into your supersoil.
 
I think the amount of dolomite I put in there is very minimal and not effecting. As you said, it takes months to break down so that shouldn't effect. I even tested water runoff and it was around 6-7 on my pH paper strips.

Next time I will try to jiffy pellets instead but I really hope I can mitigate and not let these baby girls die?

It is the second round that I am seeing these problems, the first round of seedlings died off (those were in straight super soil).
 
Overgrowtho said:
I think the amount of dolomite I put in there is very minimal and not effecting. As you said, it takes months to break down so that shouldn't effect. I even tested water runoff and it was around 6-7 on my pH paper strips.

Next time I will try to jiffy pellets instead but I really hope I can mitigate and not let these baby girls die?

It is the second round that I am seeing these problems, the first round of seedlings died off (those were in straight super soil).
Click to expand...

I would probably try to gently transplant them into just the top soil. Supersoil would probably be too hot for young plants as you found out.

What is the brand of topsoil? Depending what it has in it, it might not have enough nutrients or be the best soil to use for herb. You might be able to find something that is a general ammended potting soil that is known to work for cannabis like Fox Farm (even tho I no longer use it, its one that a lot of growers swear by, and would be a safe bet.)
 
Okay I've taken them out to transplant into the normal topsoil, getting rid of most the super soil. The super soil was Tum Din brand (I am in Asia, we dont have Fox Farm):

"18 Premium Ingredients : Mycorrhizae, Worm Castings, Blood Meal, Bat Guano, Fish Bone Meal, Kelp, Epsom Salt, Dolomite, Azomite, Humic Acid, Gypsum, Rice Hulls, Pumice, Oyster Shell, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa, Coco Coir, Fish Fertilizer"

Does that sound too hot??

Overnight this one's condition deteriorated further, so I removed the leaf which was about 50% sickly:
15602.jpg15598.jpg

As you can see, the roots seemed to be perhaps okay and fine:

15601.jpg15600.jpg

Here is a group photo after the delicate transplanting:
15599.jpg

Following the transplant, I watered around the base of the stem with pH'd water that had a drop of Myco+ in it. After that I also put diatomaceous earth atop the soil to help with IPM.

Does this seem like we are getting back on track now?

Someone in another thread suggested I add some CalMag. Good idea for next watering? If so, any suggested dose for seedlings?
 
Overgrowtho said:
Okay I've taken them out to transplant into the normal topsoil, getting rid of most the super soil. The super soil was Tum Din brand (I am in Asia, we dont have Fox Farm):

"18 Premium Ingredients : Mycorrhizae, Worm Castings, Blood Meal, Bat Guano, Fish Bone Meal, Kelp, Epsom Salt, Dolomite, Azomite, Humic Acid, Gypsum, Rice Hulls, Pumice, Oyster Shell, Soybean Meal, Alfalfa, Coco Coir, Fish Fertilizer"

Does that sound too hot??

Overnight this one's condition deteriorated further, so I removed the leaf which was about 50% sickly:
View attachment 4693340View attachment 4693336

As you can see, the roots seemed to be perhaps okay and fine:

View attachment 4693339View attachment 4693338

Here is a group photo after the delicate transplanting:
View attachment 4693344

Following the transplant, I watered around the base of the stem with pH'd water that had a drop of Myco+ in it. After that I also put diatomaceous earth atop the soil to help with IPM.

Does this seem like we are getting back on track now?

Someone in another thread suggested I add some CalMag. Good idea for next watering? If so, any suggested dose for seedlings?
Click to expand...

Hopefully that transplant does them some good! The soil definitely has a lot in it, its actually got better ingredients in it than Fox Farm. In fact that is pretty close to a supersoil recipe.. hopefully its not too hot but it should be OK. it all depends if the company let it cook long enough or if its still breaking down.

I dont think you need to worry about cal mag so early. I would let them get a few nodes high first. The fishbone meal should be a calcium source and there should be plenty of mg in there already. I wouldnt give then anything but water for a week or two. Let them tell you they are hungry or you start to see signs of deficiency before you add anything else.
 
Well I took it OUT of the supersoil-topsoil mix and put it in the regular topsoil. I was not having luck with the super soil.

The maker of the super soil told me it was important to water with only 6.5 and also water seedlings just once or twice a week only.

Hopefully we'll start to see a recovery now. Pray for them please! I will give them a bit of water every 2-4 days I guess. And just wait.
 
Overgrowtho said:
Well I took it OUT of the supersoil-topsoil mix and put it in the regular topsoil. I was not having luck with the super soil.

The maker of the super soil told me it was important to water with only 6.5 and also water seedlings just once or twice a week only.

Hopefully we'll start to see a recovery now. Pray for them please! I will give them a bit of water every 2-4 days I guess. And just wait.
Click to expand...

I think you made the right choice. A good supersoil shouldn't need ph'd water anyway since it should have ammendments and microbial life that will buffer it for you. I grow in supersoil too and just use plain tap water, and its a little acidic at 7.7. Never had any problems even with my seedlings and clones.

You will get them healthy and thriving I have faith in you! Just be patient and wait for them to bounce back. The first few weeks the growth seems slow but it will take off soon after. Just keep yourself busy reading as much as you can in the meantime and try not to fuss over them too much and they will do their thing. Good luck!
 
In my opinion the store bought topsoil did the damage. They re always the hottest even in the touch if you notice. They re not well digested. Also you dont really need the dolomite. Thats to regulate the ph when you run into problems. Hope they get where you want em :peace:
 
@Medskunk did you mean the store bought "Super Soil" was the issue (not top soil)? That Super Soil stuff is very very nutrient rich...

Whereas the cheap and normal topsoil, I think is not going to be too nutrient dense, hopefully.

When my last round of seedlings died, they had been in the Super Soil. So at least with this move, I am narrowing down the variables.

Noted about the dolomite, thanks.

@ilovereggae Thanks for the support brother. I will keep reading up. Speaking of that, I am doing a survey to determine top 5 books on cannabis cultivation: https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-books-to-read-on-cannabis-cultivation.1032105/#post-15819125
 
Overgrowtho said:
Well I took it OUT of the supersoil-topsoil mix and put it in the regular topsoil. I was not having luck with the super soil.

The maker of the super soil told me it was important to water with only 6.5 and also water seedlings just once or twice a week only.

Hopefully we'll start to see a recovery now. Pray for them please! I will give them a bit of water every 2-4 days I guess. And just wait.
Click to expand...
You should be fine with tossing them back in your soil mix once they get some leafy action going. May just have been too hot for a starter. I look forward to seeing them bounce back.
 
ilovereggae said:
I think you made the right choice. A good supersoil shouldn't need ph'd water anyway since it should have ammendments and microbial life that will buffer it for you. I grow in supersoil too and just use plain tap water, and its a little acidic at 7.7. Never had any problems even with my seedlings and clones.

You will get them healthy and thriving I have faith in you! Just be patient and wait for them to bounce back. The first few weeks the growth seems slow but it will take off soon after. Just keep yourself busy reading as much as you can in the meantime and try not to fuss over them too much and they will do their thing. Good luck!
Click to expand...
Did the same on my grow. Straight from the tap 7.6, but I did leave it out to evaporate some chlorine.
 
Overgrowtho said:
@Medskunk did you mean the store bought "Super Soil" was the issue (not top soil)? That Super Soil stuff is very very nutrient rich...

Whereas the cheap and normal topsoil, I think is not going to be too nutrient dense, hopefully.

When my last round of seedlings died, they had been in the Super Soil. So at least with this move, I am narrowing down the variables.

Noted about the dolomite, thanks.

@ilovereggae Thanks for the support brother. I will keep reading up. Speaking of that, I am doing a survey to determine top 5 books on cannabis cultivation: https://www.rollitup.org/t/best-books-to-read-on-cannabis-cultivation.1032105/#post-15819125
Click to expand...

I see, i didnt mean the super soil. The top soil you re on about.. my guess was that its like a potting mix.
But if you let it 'cook' for a couple of months as it is, im 90% sure you ll be fine.
 
Here is an update on the seedlings.
First you can see that some of them are making a recovery although there is still a lot of yellow to the new growth.


15651.jpg
15652.jpg
15649.jpg







These look to be on the right path or I should still be very worried?

Secondly, some of them seem to have stopped growing unfortunately (these pretty much dead?):


15653.jpg
15650.jpg




As an experiment I am running one in a jiffy pellet as below. You can see the tap root below.
When should I replant and into exactly which medium (example I was thinking of a starter mix of: vermicilaite and perlite with a lot of coco coir and tiny bit of super soil?) in order to avoid the above seedling problems from reoccurring?


15648.jpg
 
Just a tip from my adventures. Mix your soil with a 30-35%coco-coire to 60- 65% soil for seedlings. I would run 80%coco/20% soil to start in. A quality seed starter mix is a good addition to both mixes as 10% of the soil added. Looks like soil density and ph at this point. Water between 6.0 and 6.4. Aerate the soil with some coco. Perlite if only choice. I avoid vermiculite. 007.jpg
 
Perhaps the (mainly) topsoil was still too hot for them. I didn't think it would be, but now I'm having second thoughts due to the continued growth being yellow.

In the future I will try to start seedlings in like 60-80% Coco and hope for a better result. Much better than (mainly) top soil, right? Thank you for the tip @MICHI-CAN

These pots are quite small. I've put some fresh rain water to water them today (48 hours since last water) and also drilled holes in the pots as you can see. I hope these holes will help, but if the hot soil is the problem, then I'm not really confident that aeration was the issue.

I've already had a round of seedlings die on me (they were in hot super soil) so I'm getting quite frustrated / eager to fix this plague.

If the hot soil is the issue, then I might transplant some or all of them into a more suitable (largely coco) medium in a few days (or perhaps pertile soil mix). If there has been little improvement. Sounds like an okay plan?

@MICHI-CAN may I ask why you prefer to avoid vermiculite?

View attachment 4697386
 
Overgrowtho said:
Perhaps the (mainly) topsoil was still too hot for them. I didn't think it would be, but now I'm having second thoughts due to the continued growth being yellow.

In the future I will try to start seedlings in like 60-80% Coco and hope for a better result. Much better than (mainly) top soil, right? Thank you for the tip @MICHI-CAN

These pots are quite small. I've put some fresh rain water to water them today (48 hours since last water) and also drilled holes in the pots as you can see. I hope these holes will help, but if the hot soil is the problem, then I'm not really confident that aeration was the issue.

I've already had a round of seedlings die on me (they were in hot super soil) so I'm getting quite frustrated / eager to fix this plague.

If the hot soil is the issue, then I might transplant some or all of them into a more suitable (largely coco) medium in a few days (or perhaps pertile soil mix). If there has been little improvement. Sounds like an okay plan?

@MICHI-CAN may I ask why you prefer to avoid vermiculite?

View attachment 4697386
Click to expand...
I just find it to hold too much water. Personal thing from playing with terrariums.

Drain holes? If you had none? That's an absolute must. Cutting the soil with coco will increase drainage, aeration and lower the concentration of nutes. Just the lack of drain holes has been your biggest issue. Hope you get a rewarding result for your effort.
 
Overgrowtho said:
Unfortunately I may be having a problem right now, with my Wedding Cake Fem seedlings.

I may have used a bit too "hot" soil mix. I used: 1 part super soil, 1 part store-bought topsoil + a handful of vermiculite, pertlite and dolomite.

As you can see in the photo, the seedling appears to be stressed. Does this look like it is due to hot soil (or something else)?

If so, what can I do to mitigate? Such as for example: keeping watering to a minimum to reduce EC? or anything else? I really have no clue here!

I am planning to top up the soil more, so the stem will be covered too. Using regular top soil. Or is that even a bad idea?

Perhaps next time I should really start in my jiffy pellets and then only transplant to semi-rich soil when the roots are more established?
Click to expand...
Where did you get seeds from
 
There were always drain holes in the bottom, I just added extra ones on the side of the pots today.

The wedding cake feminized seeds I got from MSNL seed bank which was recommended on this forum. I'm mostly focused on these prized seeds.

I also got 707 Headband seeds from a buddy which all died off in the last round in hot soil.

I'm also playing with some Thai land race bag seeds for experimentation (have grown these to completion successfully outdoors here in SE Asia and harvested some seeds recently because the plant is slightly hermy).

Now I have decided to try my luck with two new seedlings using 60% pertlite light and 40% mix (super soil, top soil, worm castings). Good idea? I guess this should be sufficiently not hot and well aerated that it can't fail?
 
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