Metal Halide VS High Pressure Sodium

Hey everyone here comes the long awaited debate about what bulb types are best. Do you use HPS only? Do you use MH only? Do you use a combination of both? Some argue that lumens are the most important in bulb type. Others argue that light spectrum is of the most relevancy. Some say that HPS was originally made for street lamps and doesn't have the sufficient spectrum to grow truly excellent plants. Others say MH was originally made for football stadiums while having good spectrum but it doesn't have as much lumens per watt as HPS. MH also gives off UV light witch protects your grow room from air born pathogens(it is also said to possibly increase thc). Hortilux super HPS claims to have more red and blue in order to emulate the natural sun. They also have a blue MH that supposedly contains MH and HPS qualities. They claim to use it for pharmaceutical and lab use of growing plants. So basically from what I understand MH has the preffered spectrum qualities while HPS has the preferred lumen qualities. Unfortunately the Hortilux MH blue 400w has a meager 29,000 lumens compared to its 400w HPS counter part that boasts a surprising 55,000 lumens.

Another tid bit of information is this new bulb company out called Sun Pulse. they claim that HPS is a thing of the past and MH is the true bulb for excellent plant growth. They also claim that the mercury in HPS is very bad and environmentally unhealthy. They also claim that Lumen output doesn't matter if the spectrum is crap. For example if you have a 1000w green spectrum light that put out 110,000 lumens It wouldn't mean much because your plant couldn't use the green light anyway. The interesting and cool thing about there bulbs is they have MH in different Kelvin temps rating from 3k to 10k(UV light) The lame thing about Sun Pulse is they refuse to give you a lumen output of there bulbs because they think its irrelevant, but I am sure it definitely has relevancy.

So everyone what are your views?

I currently use an Eye Hortilux super HPS but was considering moving to Hortilux blue or possibly Sun Pulse.

Brick Top said:

This "long awaited debate" is like the "Rocky" or "Lethal Weapon" flicks in how it’s actually a series of them.
　
There is no versus when it comes to MH and HPS. One, Metal Halide is for the vegetative growth stage and the other, High Pressure Sodium is for the flowering stage .. you use both .. period, the end.

Anyone who uses them in any other way either cannot afford what is needed, so they pick one and hope for the best, or they do not know enough about plant needs to post a valid comment.

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As brick top said.

I veg under flourecent and flower under hps so to me the hps is more important because I can get away without useing mh at all.

　
There is no versus when it comes to MH and HPS. One, Metal Halide is for the vegetative growth stage and the other, High Pressure Sodium is for the flowering stage .. you use both .. period, the end.

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Cool glad I have both!

Definitely MH for veg (or some good cfl's) and a shit load of HPS when flowering

Argosun Gold MH dual spectrum bulbs, are the ish! 2in1!

Agrosun Gold Metal Halide Bulbs


Agrosun Gold Halides make plants grow their best! A Hydrofarm exclusive, these spectrally enhanced halide bulbs are the best all-purpose growth and fruiting/flowering light you can use. They emit more of the red wavelengths than the common halides. They are the “Gold Standard” in plant growth lighting, and thousands are in use by satisfied gardeners worldwide. One year warranty.

250 Watt - 20,000 initial lumens
400 Watt - 40,000 initial lumens
1000 Watt - 110,000 initial lumens

I do plan on getting a MH for my next run but as for these girls they vegged perfectly well under my hortilux hps(which claims to have added some blue into the spectrum). I know that HPS is good for flowering, but what about its lack of UV light? does that have any relevance? does UV even aid in the creation of thc?

They are droopy because I took the pic when the lights were off(the HPS messes my camera up)

very nice! they look a little thirsty?

ADTR said:

very nice! they look a little thirsty?

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thanks! ya at the time the light was off plus I think I actually over watered them instead of under watering. That pic is from over a month ago though. I have a more recent pic of some of those girls. I am a noob so I started inside, but then I didn't realize how big they would get so I had to stick them outside haha. good thing it was flowering time outside.


one of my favs


close up

nice dude they look great! +rep

Brick Top said:

　
There is no versus when it comes to MH and HPS. One, Metal Halide is for the vegetative growth stage and the other, High Pressure Sodium is for the flowering stage .. you use both .. period, the end.

Anyone who uses them in any other way either cannot afford what is needed, so they pick one and hope for the best, or they do not know enough about plant needs to post a valid comment.

Click to expand...

I disagree with everything you said. HPS just keeps showing up the MH lights time after time for us. If your talking about which light will yield better overall then HPS wins hands down when using it for both veg and flower.

i think he was talking about both photoperiods

I did my homework, before choosing the Philips MasterColor Retro White Ceramic Metal Halide (4K). It serves both purposes, veg and flower, and more UV (resin production) in both. More blue spectrum than standard MH bulbs, and more red than most standard HPS bulbs.

Philips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide
HPS-Retro White Lamps

So maybe you have hear about the best grow light bulb on the market…or maybe not - but now you have! The Philips MasterColor Ceramic Metal Halide HPS-Retro White Lamps are something new to horticulture. These bulbs are being manufactured to replace high pressure sodium (HPS) bulbs in factories and warehouses. Along comes the indoor gardener who sees the light and gets them thinking - I bet these would grow great plants! Well they do.

Grow Light Express has been testing these lamps for years and has sold lots of them. We honestly believe in these lamps. We get asked all the time if this is such a great bulb why isn't Phillips directly selling / advertising them to the horticultural markets. Well the technical reason is that with this type of bulb they would have to retool their manufacturing plants at great costs. With the coming advanced in lighting technology (and there is really some amazing stuff heading our way) we believe that they are unwilling to spend the money until the market proves worth investing further in Ceramic Metal Halide technology.

The basics:
These bulbs can be used in BOTH vegetative and bloom cycles - no more changing lamps during your grow. NO DIGITAL BALLASTS - you will destroy the bulb. ONLY use a standard coil and core HPS ballast (dont let the name confuse you). CMH bulbs cannot handle the frequencies of digital ballasts. Of course there are exceptions to this rule as there is at least one digital ballast that is designed to work with CMH lamps. They are fairly expensive and unless you know you have one of these you don't so don't try. The Ceramic Metal Halide bulbs are positional. This means that they are designed to be EITHER horizontal or vertical (they cannot be used universally) but not both. Placing the bulb in the wrong position will cause it to fail early. A tip to success is that most gardeners are reporting better success with the use of supplemental silica. Since these bulbs will make your plants grow fast, silica is helpful. Silica is involved in cell division and overall plant strength.

Benefits:
There are many benefits to these lamps. The main reason for even considering these lamps is the fantastic spectrum of light they produce. Check out the chart below to compare to output of a CMH to a HPS lamp.

As you can see there is a great deal of light energy available in the blue spectrum as well as the red. HPS lamps produce lots of light but its not the "right" light. It is true that plants can adapt and grow well under HPS but they will do better under CMH. Think of it this way, the sun, the light we are trying to reproduce inside, is full spectrum not just a lot of yellow / red. So why just give them yellow / orange? Basically HPS has become the standard for growing in supplied lighting conditions. This is mostly historical (now) because that was the best we had…now we have alternatives.

Other benefits include they "throw" less heat, they have very little color shift (less than 200K over their life time), your plants will have less stretch (tighter internodes).

Ceramic Metal Halide FAQ:

1. I have noticed that the Ceramic Metal Halide HPS Retro bulbs produce less lumens compared to other HPS bulbs?
A: Lumens is an antiquated way of comparing grow lamps. Lumens are a scientific definition based on the human eye and NOT on a plants response curve. This is the hardest part for people considering trying the CMH's to get past. We have been snowed over by the manufacturers just focusing on the max lumens.

2. When are bigger wattage bulbs going to be available?
A: Hum…sometime soon if Phillips keeps their promise! Also there is some new Ceramic Metal Halide technology on the horizon. This may keep bigger wattages of the market but the good news is that the new ones maybe extremely more efficient so you may not need bigger wattages. We will keep you posted on this!!

3. Will they run on my DIGITAL ballast?
A: NO (unless you have a specifically designed digital ballast for CMH lamps). They must be used in HPS ballast.

For additional information refer to the specification sheet for Ceramic Metal Halide Bulbs from Phillips.

And see my grow for the results. Too bad there's so much leafy bud, and not too many colas LOL


Of course some will argue HPS is better in flower, and that may be so as far as yield is concerned, but MH is known to produce better quality. I plan to compare - side by side - just to see if depriving the plant of blue light is somehow beneficial in flowering.

This information is getting JUICY. So what about hortilux's blue(daylight lamp)? It seems to put off around the same spectrum as the Philips Ceramic MH. Is it common that MH don't work with digital or eletronic ballasts? Or is it just that specific MH?

Hortilux Blue spectrum chart


Hortilux Super HPS spectrum chart

doublejj said:

Argosun Gold MH dual spectrum bulbs, are the ish! 2in1!

Agrosun Gold Metal Halide Bulbs


Agrosun Gold Halides make plants grow their best! These spectrally enhanced halide bulbs are the best all-purpose growth and fruiting/flowering light you can use. They emit more of the red wavelengths than the common halides.

250 Watt - 20,000 initial lumens
400 Watt - 40,000 initial lumens
1000 Watt - 110,000 initial lumens

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So wouldn't you say that bulb would be most effective during flowering with a 3k rating. Sounds nice because it has UV and 3k rating in a MH.

ADTR said:

i think he was talking about both photoperiods

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I prefer to use HPS from start to finish rather than MH for veg followed by HPS for flower. I dont think I would even bother using using a combination of the 2 again for veg either. We have compared them a number of times now on various grows and the MH lights still didnt impress me even though I wanted them to since so many people swear by them. We even went out and bought 10 new MH bulbs for my bro's last grow which were a different brand just incase the last ones we had were old and shit. Now we had some nice new MH bulbs to compare to our 12 month old HPS globes lol. Some of them were used for the veg period and all of them have now been put back in their boxes never to be used by us again, thats how impressed we were with them.

So with that all said and done, Brick Tops post quoted below is not correct. Although there is always the possibility that I am one of those people he mentioned that doesnt know enough about growing for my comments to be valid

Brick Top said:

Anyone who uses them in any other way either cannot afford what is needed, so they pick one and hope for the best, or they do not know enough about plant needs to post a valid comment.

Click to expand...

M Blaze said:

I prefer to use HPS from start to finish rather than MH for veg followed by HPS for flower. I dont think I would even bother using using a combination of the 2 again for veg either. We have compared them a number of times now on various grows and the MH lights still didnt impress me even though I wanted them to since so many people swear by them. We even went out and bought 10 new MH bulbs for my bro's last grow which were a different brand just incase the last ones we had were old and shit. Now we had some nice new MH bulbs to compare to our 12 month old HPS globes lol. Some of them were used for the veg period and all of them have now been put back in their boxes never to be used by us again, thats how impressed we were with them.

So with that all said and done, Brick Tops post quoted below is not correct. Although there is always the possibility that I am one of those people he mentioned that doesnt know enough about growing for my comments to be valid

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hey well as long as you found something that works good for you dude. thats what its all about

doublejj said:

Argosun Gold MH dual spectrum bulbs, are the ish! 2in1!

Agrosun Gold Metal Halide Bulbs


Agrosun Gold Halides make plants grow their best! A Hydrofarm exclusive, these spectrally enhanced halide bulbs are the best all-purpose growth and fruiting/flowering light you can use. They emit more of the red wavelengths than the common halides. They are the “Gold Standard” in plant growth lighting, and thousands are in use by satisfied gardeners worldwide. One year warranty.

250 Watt - 20,000 initial lumens
400 Watt - 40,000 initial lumens
1000 Watt - 110,000 initial lumens

Click to expand...

I beg to differ

It's lacking red, and there's a lot of wasted energy in the yellow and green spectrum

M Blaze said:

I prefer to use HPS from start to finish rather than MH for veg followed by HPS for flower. I dont think I would even bother using using a combination of the 2 again for veg either. We have compared them a number of times now on various grows and the MH lights still didnt impress me even though I wanted them to since so many people swear by them. We even went out and bought 10 new MH bulbs for my bro's last grow which were a different brand just incase the last ones we had were old and shit. Now we had some nice new MH bulbs to compare to our 12 month old HPS globes lol. Some of them were used for the veg period and all of them have now been put back in their boxes never to be used by us again, thats how impressed we were with them.

So with that all said and done, Brick Tops post quoted below is not correct. Although there is always the possibility that I am one of those people he mentioned that doesnt know enough about growing for my comments to be valid

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That's fine if you have no space limitations, because red causes stretch

Green Cross said:

I beg to differ

It's lacking red, and there's a lot of wasted energy in the yellow and green spectrum

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that really wont make a difference because plants do not use the green portion of the light spectrum. they reflect it.