MegaCrop thread gone? Nute products w/o Ca - Mg

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I made a post and fear I may have been banned? Is that a thing? I came back to delete and start a new thread instead of leave my comment on GLs thread, but I can't even access it anymore?


Ill try to remember what I asked but just think its peculiar I can't access it anymore.

*********


Does anybody make a Ca and Mg deficient base nute? Seems like there's a huge market of people using high CaCO3 ppm tap water that's being missed. (If your water is low ppm already then just buy Ca-Mg?)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but using nitric acid as a pH down in high CaCO3 tap water results in Ca(NO3)2 (water & CO2 too). If the base nute is already filled with Ca(NO3)2 as a form to supply either N or Ca, isn't the yield of the HNO3 ---> calcium carbonate reaction adding to this base nute level leading to "over ferting," "burning," or excess? Same with phosphoric acid (?), or would the Ca3(PO4)2 precipitate as an insoluble solid and not add to the available P?

Does anybody make a Sulfuric acid based pH down?

I've tried using straight PK boosters and nitric as a pH down in high carbonate water to satisfy my NPK requirements but I end up showing deficits for the trace elements Zn, Mn, Mo, B ect. Is there a P - K product with all the trace elements minus the Ca and Mg? (Perhaps utilizing sulfates and nitrates other than MgSO4 and Ca(NO3)2?)

Seems like not having to buy RO or distilled water would/could be a huge benefit. You could add Ca-Mg as needed instead of buying expensive filter systems or 5gal jugs of water (if that was you). And if you have low ppm water already they (the nute co) could profit additionally by selling another product (Ca-Mg).

I'm Ideally looking for a P - K product with a 10ishP - 15ishK ratio (no N), with all the trace elements needed (Zn, B Mo, ect), and completely deficit of Ca & Mg. Also looking for a sufuric acid based pH down.

I could use nitric in veg w fulvics and the "tap water" product (p-k product) along with any supplemental N needed, and then switch to sulfuric (fulvics and the P - K tap water product) in bloom if I'm getting to much N? (Seems like it would be better suited for bloom I guess, but with bicarbonates in the 250mg/l range, using nitric might supply enough N for veg? If there's bicarbonate in the 250mg/l range, there has to be quite a few alkine ions that dissociated from the bicarbonates in water?)

All this ^^^^ for high bicarbonate ppm water

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I feel like I'm missing some important info here.

Come to find out CaCO3 has a suturation of something close to 13ppm in H2O, and that the listing of CaCO3 in your water report is a form of measurement but not nessecarily of CaCO3.

I think if I understand correctly, it's a measurement of the weight of CaCO3 needed initially (per liter of water) to achieve the H(CO3)-, H2(CO3) concentraintions that they are experiencing. It doesn't exactly mean the bicarbonates came from Ca(CO3), they could have come from Mg(CO3) or Na2(CO3) too, along with others ect.

So why do I care about bicarbonate concentration? Aren't I more worried about what they used to be attached to? The charged alkaline metals that would react with the pH down (nitric) to form available nutes? Or is the bicarbonate needed for the reaction? Is this why I see my ppm drop after adding pH down? The bicarbonate is neutralized by the nitric and realized as CO2 and water, thus the culprit for decreasing TDS? Or rather, is it the nitric bonding with the alkaline metals (in turn releasing hydrogen which in turn reacts with the bicarbonates?) the real culprit of my decreasing EC after adding pH down?

Does nitric react with bicarbonates soley? Does it just create nitrate ions (and H2O & CO2)? Are those plant available (nitrate ions)?

@cannabineer @churchhaze

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Bump.

 

[BigHornBuds]

I read the 1st couple lines, then I seen it was a book . No thanks

Mega Crop is good stuff.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

I read the 1st couple lines, then I seen it was a book . No thanks
View attachment 4279096
Mega Crop is good stuff.

Lol I bolded the basic parts, don't overwork yourself there bud

I'm sure it is good stuff, but the first thing I noticed when I went to their website to look into it was how they use 4 different forms of Ca or something like that.

If you use tap water, and a lot of people do, you're probably getting too much Ca when using pH down and using MegaCrop or any nute line adding Ca and Mg to begin with. You will probably have issues.

Excess Ca blocks Fe uptake. Hopefully this is short enough for you


I'm looking for a N & Ca & Mg defecint nute product, but containing all else, all other macro and micro elements. Something like a 0-8-12 minus Ca & Mg with all micros.

Also looking for a brand of sulfuric pH down.

 

[JohnDee]

Hi Chief,
Guys tht choose to use H2SO4 will just go to the auto store and buy a container of battery acid. It's for batteries so is very pure...has to be. I have done this and it works great. Need to be careful during initial dilution.
JD

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Hi Chief,
Guys tht choose to use H2SO4 will just go to the auto store and buy a container of battery acid. It's for batteries so is very pure...has to be. I have done this and it works great. Need to be careful during initial dilution.
JD

Thanks! Never thought of that, and got it, acid into water.

What quantities do they sell it in and what concentration?

 

[JohnDee]

Thanks! Never thought of that, and got it, acid into water.

What quantities do they sell it in and what concentration?

Not sure on those details...but it's a small manageable amount and cheap. Like $10. Probably enough for 1 car battery.

I mixed about 1/3 of the acid into 1 gal distilled water...then used that as my ph down. But you're a math sort of guy...so you'll figure it out.
JD

 

[Fixed up]

Not sure if I’m understanding you right but it sounds like you are concerned when adding CalMag to MC that you will have too much and get a lockout?

I don’t think you need to add any unless you see a deficiency.

My tap water is 290 ppm and I added CalMag during veg using MC 1.0 and my plants are insane.

They are now in their 3rd week of flower with MC 2.0 and I quit using CalMag and only added a bud booster. Looking amazing so far.

 

[xtsho]

Hmm, I use tap water that has calcium in it. I also use calcium nitrate for my nitrogen source. The micronutrient blend I use has magnesium. I don't have any issues but I also don't add calmag either which I think is the most overused supplement there is. Phosphoric acid for pH down is what I use as well.

I try not to overthink things. It's just a plant. It will grow fine as long as you feed it what it wants. Most problems people have comes from using too many additives. Or as I like to call them, fairy juice.

 

[churchhaze]

Does nitric react with bicarbonates soley? Does it just create nitrate ions (and H2O & CO2)? Are those plant available (nitrate ions)?

The nitrates from nitric acid will cause the carbonates to turn into carbon dioxide which will leave the solution. Yes the nitrates are available to the plant.

Is this why I see my ppm drop after adding pH down?

EC is affected by pH, so it's possible.

 

[churchhaze]

Does anybody make a Ca and Mg deficient base nute?

Some companies make "hard water" formulas that have slightly less calcium nitrate for this exact reason. Even if you have very hard water, you're still going to need a lot of calcium nitrate, but dial in with slightly less. In fact, my own mix is a hard water mix.

 

[churchhaze]

I'm Ideally looking for a P - K product with a 10ishP - 15ishK ratio (no N)

Some mix of mono-potassium phosphate and potassium hydroxide will get you there, but it will be basic. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about finding this "P+K" product, but having monopotassium phosphate and potassium hydroxide separately will probably come in handy.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Some mix of mono-potassium phosphate and potassium hydroxide will get you there, but it will be basic. Honestly, I wouldn't worry about finding this "P+K" product, but having monopotassium phosphate and potassium hydroxide separately will probably come in handy.

I bought potassium sulfate, zinc sulfate, manganese sulfate. I'm adding to my maxibloom base (5-15-14). I can't find an NPK or ppm nute recipes for MJ that's been logically derived.

This what I'm trying, we'll see how it goes..

Tap water 225ppm.
Added nitric FIRST to neutralize as many bicarbonates wanting to bond with cation's. I don't know if this is correct thinking or not but it dropped my ppm to 208.
Then I added 300ppm of maxi (5-15-14), 135ppm K2SO4, 7ppm ZnSO4, 7ppm MnSO4.

Some companies make "hard water" formulas that have slightly less calcium nitrate for this exact reason. Even if you have very hard water, you're still going to need a lot of calcium nitrate, but dial in with slightly less. In fact, my own mix is a hard water mix.

Tap has 43ppm Ca and 20ppm Mg. Not a ton of Ca but questioning the validity of the analysis. Using nitric to add to any lacking Ca(NO3)2 from the lower base nute ppm. Maxi has 5%Ca and MgSO4 in it too.

I have MgSO4 if Mg is needed and GH Ca-Mg if Ca is needed.

650ppm in DWC.

What are your elemental ppm targets if you don't mind me asking?

 

[CoB_nUt]

Does anybody make a Sulfuric acid based pH down?

I make my own from Motorcycle battery fluid from the auto parts store. Not sure if there is a canna nutrient manufacturer that makes a sulphuric acid ph down product.
Big Ag uses sulphuric acid.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

@CoB_nUt & @JohnDee thanks guys I'm switching to sulphuric for my pH down.

Then I'm buying and mixing my own salts based on what my tap has. With using the sulphuric I will reduce my natural Ca(No3)2 from the tap and nitric reaction but I'm sick of the guessing game on what brand will work for my water. I'm just going to mix my own.

Idk if its just me but it seems that MJ loves way more Zn S K & Mn than typically supplied by bloom nutes. I always run into lockout (I think) caused by my tap and improper nute ratios for hydro. I want to try some MC cause I heard it's great stuff and im sure it is, but I'm convinced I can tailor something better for my personal needs than a generic use nute lol we'll see.

If anyone has a ppm recipe that's been working for them, post it! And thanks!

 

[CoB_nUt]

You are welcome Chief.

I been on MC old and new formula @4gs for a few harvests.Homemade ph down with sulphuric acid and tap water.<200 ppm 7.8 ph. Has cal and some mag in it. Plants tell me they love the mix

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

Not sure if I’m understanding you right but it sounds like you are concerned when adding CalMag to MC that you will have too much and get a lockout?

I don’t think you need to add any unless you see a deficiency.

My tap water is 290 ppm and I added CalMag during veg using MC 1.0 and my plants are insane.

They are now in their 3rd week of flower with MC 2.0 and I quit using CalMag and only added a bud booster. Looking amazing so far.

Not specifically MC, but yes, I could be wrong but it seems my tap adds excess minerals to the base nute that ends up locking out parts of the base nute. So I was originally looking for a Ca & Mg deficient base nute, but now have switched to just trying to mix my own.

I'm currently using MaxiBloom because I had it, but posted my question on the MC thread hoping they'd take the idea and run with it (as I'd rather give my money to a startup then a big corporation).

 

[CoB_nUt]

This is just my opinion and from my experience. Cal+ mag tho they "run together" and lack or too much of one can exacerbate uptake issue of the other,shouldn't be made together in one bottle or package. It's either a cal or a mag issue most times. Since you are going to tailor your own nutes,I'd also get calnitrate and eposom salts...there's your cal mag plus a bit of sulphur to boot.

 

[ChiefRunningPhist]

MC old and new formula @4gs

4 grams per gallon?

tap water.<200 ppm 7.8 ph. Has cal and some mag in it.

Your tap under 200ppm?

That's just the thing I'm looking for, 1 powder, pH as needed, done. I might have to try it, I still want to mix up my own nutes now that I've gone through the effort and acquired all this info going through the proccess of troubleshooting my issues lol but perhaps that's the nute line that I needed to try and haven't yet..