Mars II 900 in 3x3 scrog

Hey guys, setting up a first grow here. I got this Mars II 900 on craigslist, and while I'm not afraid it will perform well, I'm considering supplementing it. Out of all the options, it seems like the most power for your buck in the LED department is these Mars 300s going for $70 per on Ebay. The 900 uses about 420w while the 300 uses 132w. I'm wondering if adding 4 of those 300s into the unit is worth the investment? This would take the total wattage from 420w up to about 950w for a cost of about $280. Overkill? Any idea how the total yield would compare?

Their wattage is basically irrelevant. Mars are extremely inefficient. When you add all those lights and calculate the par wattage vs the wall wattage you would probably be better off with hps heat and light wise

This is best http://timbergrowlights.com/200-watt-cree-cxb3590-4-cob-kit-meanwell-hlg-power-supply-free-shipping/

Return the Mars for money back. Or sell it on eBay

Otherwise HID lighting is your best bet.

Big smo said:

Their wattage is basically irrelevant. Mars are extremely inefficient. When you add all those lights and calculate the par wattage vs the wall wattage you would probably be better off with hps heat and light wise

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have you grown led bro

Big smo - could you provide numbers to go with all that verbiage above since it is hard to research.
BM9AGS - why, who says, easy to spend others monies.
skunklover1 - yes, I grow LED.
SchweeDubz -
This is what i use: Two Mar Hydro II 900s, a Lumitex NeoSol NS, and Dorm Grow UFO in an 8x8x8 grow chamber with 4 to 6 PPK stations. Cannot explain how I came got this crazy combo but they produce. Grow style - PPK Hydro, Nutes - Jacks - ec 1.2 to 1.6, temp 68 to 76 def , humidity 50% to 65%. Can be unattended for up to 10 days. Can monitor and adjust remotely but no visual.
In my opinion, you do not need additional lights (maybe an UFO) for the 3x3 (I grow big shrubs to small trees with no topping and minimum training). Give what you have a go. You will know as you go if you need additional lights or if the Mars II does not work for you.

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RSN

PS -Look at this Bodhi Silver Mountain under the lights. She looks alright.

Not sure where the hate for Mars is coming from. I've seen mostly positive reviews and successful grows. The most common complaint was some of the LEDs burning out and having to replace them after a year or so. Which...lame, but I paid $250 on Craigslist. If it gets a solid year of growing, I can reweigh my options then.

RORSN - It looks like the UFOs are 135w REPLACEMENT at $150, where the Mars 300's are $70 of TRUE WATTAGE of 132w. Wouldn't the 300s be a far better choice? (I've read that true wattage is the best way to measure LED grow power). My biggest concern here would be owning multiple Mars lights, all with breaking diodes. Also, I'm still curious, what do you think the difference in yield would be between just the Mars II 900 on 3x3, or that plus 4 300s? They say a gram a watt, but I can't seriously imagine I'd be doubling my yield in the same amount of space.

SchweeDubz said:

Not sure where the hate for Mars is coming from. I've seen mostly positive reviews and successful grows. The most common complaint was some of the LEDs burning out and having to replace them after a year or so. Which...lame, but I paid $250 on Craigslist. If it gets a solid year of growing, I can reweigh my options then.

RORSN - It looks like the UFOs are 135w REPLACEMENT at $150, where the Mars 300's are $70 of TRUE WATTAGE of 132w. Wouldn't the 300s be a far better choice? (I've read that true wattage is the best way to measure LED grow power). My biggest concern here would be owning multiple Mars lights, all with breaking diodes. Also, I'm still curious, what do you think the difference in yield would be between just the Mars II 900 on 3x3, or that plus 4 300s? They say a gram a watt, but I can't seriously imagine I'd be doubling my yield in the same amount of space.

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Just so you know what you're getting.
Mars and those cheap eBay/Amazon/craigslist lights use epistar LEDs. Which are about 17-20% efficient. Hid is up to 35% efficient and what I posted the timber kit is 56% efficient at full power dimmable to 70% efficient.

Will Mars grow.....yes but you'll need more wattage than you would need with the more efficient options. Actual wattage not the wattage listed in the name to fool those who don't know any better

BM9AGS said:

Just so you know what you're getting.
Mars and those cheap eBay/Amazon/craigslist lights use epistar LEDs. Which are about 17-20% efficient. Hid is up to 35% efficient and what I posted the timber kit is 56% efficient at full power dimmable to 70% efficient.

Will Mars grow.....yes but you'll need more wattage than you would need with the more efficient options.

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From my current understanding, you aren't wrong. I don't know what epistar LEDs are exactly but I do know the Mars uses 5w LEDs, and supposedly 3w LEDs are ideal. When you say "efficient", I'm curious as to exactly what that's referring to. An HPS light produces more lumens, but a more accurate reading for light potential is the PPFD. Or are you referring to efficient in terms of wattage to light ratio, because LEDs easily win that...

I've seen grow tests comparing high end LEDs compared to 1000w HPS. The HPS basically loses in every category except overall yield, and there its lead is by 10 grams out of 700. Those LEDs used weren't Mars admittedly.

SchweeDubz said:

From my current understanding, you aren't wrong. I don't know what epistar LEDs are exactly but I do know the Mars uses 5w LEDs, and supposedly 3w LEDs are ideal. When you say "efficient", I'm curious as to exactly what that's referring to. An HPS light produces more lumens, but a more accurate reading for light potential is the PPFD. Or are you referring to efficient in terms of wattage to light ratio, because LEDs easily win that...

I've seen grow tests comparing high end LEDs compared to 1000w HPS. The HPS basically loses in every category except overall yield, and there its lead is by 10 grams out of 700. Those LEDs used weren't Mars admittedly.

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Right. Those LEDs are likely Osram ssl80 or similar with the ones that grow good results like BML or CLW or the copies. Epistar is a very shitty and cheap type of led. It's not about the stated wattage of a led or that one is ideal it's how efficient a led is at producing PAR with electricity. So when you are using a Mars they have about the cheapest LEDs you can buy and are taking that electricity and making less with the actual wattage than even hid lighting....and more heat. I'm using Cree cxb 3590 at about 50 watts each and you'd need about 4 times the actual wattage to match the par with Mars or any other cheap epiled light.

SchweeDubz -

I can only say this about my 2 Mars II 900; I am happy with the purchase. Would I buy again; I am not at that point of needing to purchase
Note: I purchased directly from MarsHydro. Easy purchase and free shipping from west coast to east coast. I finished buying for and building this grow chamber over a year ago.

Your comment about the lights is most likely true but I bought the UFO 'red' a year before the Mars.

I cannot not answer the 1- 900 or 4 -300 question for your room but do think of your short and long term plans. Plus do not second guess yourself. Remember its your money.

As for the gram/watt, To me it just bull-shit. See I grow what and when I want; don't own a scale nor have an ego. if you can get a gram a watt out some of these strains then you are walking on air.
My LED purchase have been done steps due to needing light power but not exceeding 'x' amps, 'y' environmental cost in the chamber, 'z' monetary cost - initial and long term.

I.m retired and just buying Jacks Hydro now.

Hope this helps,

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RORSN

Efficiency is the percentage of light output to heat. As led and all lights only produce 2 things. Epistsr LEDs are the least expensive and lowest quality diodes available. Watt for watt Lowering the par watts and raising the heat. With good growing and genetics Mars will produce some amazing stuff but it will cost you more to do so. Multiply the actual wattage of the Mars times .2 for 20% efficient and divide that by how much it cost you. Now for the timber kit he mentioned above is $3.50 a par watt. Now that's just the intial cost. Multiply the your actual wattage times .8 and that will give you the heat watts then multiply that times 3.412 that will give you the btu of that light. You don't have to second guess yourself or your purchase but you should know a little about what your buying before you do so. Picture the efficiency to be the same as fuel mileage. Where a turbo charged Toyota Prius gets 40 mpg while hitting 12 second 1/4 miles and a 1968 Buick v8 getting 9mpg and a 16 second 1/4 mile. The Buick still goes plenty fast but it sure as shit cost you some fuel to make it down the track.

Cobs are very efficient. Price wise these kits are very affordable. But not for everyone, cmh is another very efficient light and cost just over 350 dollars.

Get your calculator out

skunklover1 said:

have you grown led bro

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I have 30 Cree cobs, 18 3070's, 6 2530's and 6 3590's 700 watts of single Cree LEDs, 2 ceramics, t5's, some cheaper epistsr bars and 2 Mars hydro door stops. Not sure the exact specs on the Amare's but probably closer to 50% efficient and my yields are out of control. Drying Dinafem now which should be close to 2lbs per light. As you can tell I really like led but I also know why I like them. It's facts not claims or speculations.

I have said this before, choosing or liking a light isn't really a presence thing like liking a color. People don't hate Mars cause they are inexpensive or because they are made in China. People dislike them because they make claims that aren't true. No way 268 watts will equal 600 watts of hps. It's actually worse. 268 watts is equal to 175 watts of hps with the heat of 600 watts of hps. After reading that how can anyone say they like them.

Sorry I feel it's worth a full screen shot

Big smo said:

Efficiency is the percentage of light output to heat. As led and all lights only produce 2 things. Epistsr LEDs are the least expensive and lowest quality diodes available. Watt for watt Lowering the par watts and raising the heat. With good growing and genetics Mars will produce some amazing stuff but it will cost you more to do so. Multiply the actual wattage of the Mars times .2 for 20% efficient and divide that by how much it cost you. Now for the timber kit he mentioned above is $3.50 a par watt. Now that's just the intial cost. Multiply the your actual wattage times .8 and that will give you the heat watts then multiply that times 3.412 that will give you the btu of that light. You don't have to second guess yourself or your purchase but you should know a little about what your buying before you do so. Picture the efficiency to be the same as fuel mileage. Where a turbo charged Toyota Prius gets 40 mpg while hitting 12 second 1/4 miles and a 1968 Buick v8 getting 9mpg and a 16 second 1/4 mile. The Buick still goes plenty fast but it sure as shit cost you some fuel to make it down the track.

Cobs are very efficient. Price wise these kits are very affordable. But not for everyone, cmh is another very efficient light and cost just over 350 dollars.

Get your calculator out

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Lol, I don't disagree. I did search the net for general opinions and successful grows before purchasing, but I didn't go as far in depth to learn about the types of LEDs, which is great to know.

I'm not particularly worried about Mars having lower efficiency as long as the end power is strong enough. It may be wasting some power on heat but my grow area is actually pretty cold (lows of 62) so that's not a bad thing. I will probably upgrade after some practice and some successful yields.

I'm still very curious in general how 600w compares to 1000w (or LED equivalents) in the same grow space for yield.

There are plenty of LEDs that will beat out hps. The most cost effective being cobs. Spend some time here and you'll see most are in a cob craze. They work and are priced very reasonably. I wouldn't throw the Mars away but over time and once you build up a positive flow of bud adding slowly is rhe best way to go. Check out the Mars conversion videos. Pretty cheap upgrade

Big smo said:

People dislike them because they make claims that aren't true. No way 268 watts will equal 600 watts of hps. It's actually worse. 268 watts is equal to 175 watts of hps with the heat of 600 watts of hps.

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I'm not sure where you are getting those #s. On their site, they claim that the 1200 model is comparable to a 600w HID. They say the 1200 model consumes roughly 500w.

I also can't help but feel the efficiency argument is, if nothing else, only one thing to consider. If my Mars 900 is outputting the same results as a 450HPS without all the associated heat, and I only paid $250, then its a win. And furthermore it's cheaper to pay for shipping to replace the shit LEDs once a year than it would be to replace bulbs.

My original concern was about maximizing my yield in my grow space but the discussion has become about which LED light is best. Not that they aren't related but...yeah...

It all comes down to PPFD... Without knowing that then its hard to make a solid comparison.. here are LEDs of high quality.

Thanks @Growmau5

HPS can push some numbers as well looking at some famous ones... Note that is over a 4x4.



On my 800W DIY setup I get 833 PPFD over the whole 5x5 area.

^^^ This is why people get upset about false info^^^^

Because there is real info that backs up LEDs being far more efficient... and thats what really hits your wallet... When you start to pull some 1.9G/W and no need for A/C thats making bank.

Some proof of numbers stated above

.

Actually not to bust your sales pitch, but Mars-Hydro offers Cree and Epistar LEDs. I have many friends who use high end LED's (Kind, Lush, Blackdog, CLW, etc), they paid $1,300.00 - $2,000.00 per 700w from the wall on average, I paid $900.00 for 680w from the wall... We all agree that we do not see a difference in results. We all saved money by not having to use AC as we didnt need it (a added perk.) I do not care what anyone says or does personally, I mean if you want to drop $2,000 on a 1000w LED go for it, if you want to run a $240.00 1000w HPS go for it... But, there is no reason to bash a LED company, that makes $1,000.00 LED's lights that put out 700w using Cree lights when you say they only have Epistar..

By the way, I have used the Mars 300's as well. 1 - Mars 300 (13?w) per 2 plants with the right nutes and enviroment and you will be more than happy with the results as a noob. Then move up the something else when you see fit... Dont let these dudes, try to strong arm you into the my dicks bigger routine, they are the same ones with the lifted orange pickups cruising around town while girls and guys make fun of them.

As I always say to the mickey mouse mothers, Chucky fucking cheese.... the greatest show on earth!

Freetheworld said:

Actually not to bust your sales pitch, but Mars-Hydro offers Cree and Epistar LEDs. I have many friends who use high end LED's (Kind, Lush, Blackdog, CLW, etc), they paid $1,300.00 - $2,000.00 per 700w from the wall on average, I paid $900.00 for 680w from the wall... We all agree that we do not see a difference in results. We all saved money by not having to use AC as we didnt need it (a added perk.) I do not care what anyone says or does personally, I mean if you want to drop $2,000 on a 1000w LED go for it, if you want to run a $240.00 1000w HPS go for it... But, there is no reason to bash a LED company, that makes $1,000.00 LED's lights that put out 700w using Cree lights when you say they only have Epistar..

By the way, I have used the Mars 300's as well. 1 - Mars 300 (13?w) per 2 plants with the right nutes and enviroment and you will be more than happy with the results as a noob. Then move up the something else when you see fit... Dont let these dudes, try to strong arm you into the my dicks bigger routine, they are the same ones with the lifted orange pickups cruising around town while girls and guys make fun of them.

As I always say to the mickey mouse mothers, Chucky fucking cheese.... the greatest show on earth!

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Did you seriously put kind ,lush and black dog in a high end category?

They may now be using Cree likely from all of our shit talking. Regardless for as many years as they've been fucking growers over I wouldn't touch them. The Cree they're using doesn't come close to cxb 3590 efficiency. For that price you could do way way better