Malted Barley substitute?

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Groat21

Active Member
I am using the Clackamas Coot mix/routine (mostly). I've got my no-till bed all set up, going great. Top dressing with Malted Barley Powder, Kelp, and Neem.

I'm having some issues with the barley though. I've been getting a rash on my hands when working in there. Just wondering if other grains that are gluten free (I'm gluten intolerant) would work just as well? I seem to recall him saying any grains will be fine.

Thanks guys!
 
meangreengrowinmachine

meangreengrowinmachine

Well-Known Member
If you are looking solely for something to use as mulch straw or hay or saw dust or really leaves... many things will work... Or you could consider a cover crop like clover, that can help fix nitrogen issues also!
 
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loco41

Well-Known Member
Groat21 said:
Thanks, but I am looking to replace the chitinase (mostly) in the Malted Barley. Would Malted corn have that?
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Your post made me do a quick google search on chitinase enzymes. read through this link, http://www.biotech-ecolo.net/plant-resistance/chitinase.html not the most useful probably, but broke it down enough to make me realize I should do some more reading to get a better grasp on it. I just got some insect frass for the first time too, so now seems like the best time to incorporate some form of some chitinase as well.

Have you looked into making sst's? I think they are pretty interchangeable, the barley just being more convenient and easier to incorporate.
 
MustangStudFarm

MustangStudFarm

Well-Known Member
Groat21 said:
Malted Barley Powder
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Is it really powder? I buy my barley from a beer brewing store and they are whole grains. Sometimes I put them in a blender, but when I mix 250gal of soil at a time it's hard to do. I've been using whole grains w/o problems. It's $25 for a 50lb bag of barley.
 
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Groat21

Active Member
MustangStudFarm said:
Is it really powder? I buy my barley from a beer brewing store and they are whole grains. Sometimes I put them in a blender, but when I mix 250gal of soil at a time it's hard to do. I've been using whole grains w/o problems. It's $25 for a 50lb bag of barley.
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Yeah, I do the same. But I grind it into a powder before topdressing and then spray it down into the soil (I put aloe and silica in the water as well).

loco41 said:
Your post made me do a quick google search on chitinase enzymes. read through this link, http://www.biotech-ecolo.net/plant-resistance/chitinase.html not the most useful probably, but broke it down enough to make me realize I should do some more reading to get a better grasp on it. I just got some insect frass for the first time too, so now seems like the best time to incorporate some form of some chitinase as well.

Have you looked into making sst's? I think they are pretty interchangeable, the barley just being more convenient and easier to incorporate.
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If you've listened to or read anything by Clackamas, there isn't much benefit to making the SSTs, plus it's a lot more work. But it's interesting that malted barley seems to cut down the flowering time. Not sure the science behind it, or if it's the chitinase, or something else. But it's been working great for me!
JavaCo said:
According to this paper it looks like soybeans, wheat, and cabbage have the highest chitinase in the plants they tested, lol top dress cabbage I guess. https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0113596
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Soybeans sound like a no-no to me, with all the bio-engineering and what not with them. Not sure about cabbage though haha maybe I'll plant a bunch outdoors and dry it this year!
 
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Groat21

Active Member
I just realized the problem with growing cabbage to top dress... Chitinase is highest in seeds/seedlings. That's why the malted grains work so well obviously.
 
JavaCo

JavaCo

Well-Known Member
I would not touch conventional soybeans, but organic soy would insure that it is not transgenic or GMO. Good source of nitrogen ,soy meal npk is usually 7-1-2.
 
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Groat21

Active Member
JavaCo said:
I would not touch conventional soybeans, but organic soy would insure that it is not transgenic or GMO. Good source of nitrogen ,soy meal npk is usually 7-1-2.
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I remember hearing about there being some crazy number of enzymes in malted barley - amalayze, and a bunch of others - just need to find out if soybeans would mimic some of the same properties. Although they would probably need to me malted... might have to be done myself.
 
JavaCo

JavaCo

Well-Known Member
If you believe the rumors it has to be good it grows boobs on men it has to grow big old buds on plants maybe. I know it has a lot of phytoestrogens that are not like estrogens that do grow boobs. Not sure about enzymes but it for sure will be better to sprout it first get rid of the anti nutrients. Easy to do just soak 8 to 12 hours then rinse every 12 till they sprout tails I would just blend wet and water in but if you want malted throw the sprouted beans in a dehydrator set on 119 F I believe it is till they are dry. You could just use gloves when handling the barley, might be the easiest solution. Going to try a 50/50 miz of red winter wheat and white wheat sprouted for my next sprouted tea, after reading that article. Don't have any barley that will sprout but I have some whole wheat. Should supply plenty of chitinase.
 
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Groat21

Active Member
JavaCo said:
If you believe the rumors it has to be good it grows boobs on men it has to grow big old buds on plants maybe. I know it has a lot of phytoestrogens that are not like estrogens that do grow boobs. Not sure about enzymes but it for sure will be better to sprout it first get rid of the anti nutrients. Easy to do just soak 8 to 12 hours then rinse every 12 till they sprout tails I would just blend wet and water in but if you want malted throw the sprouted beans in a dehydrator set on 119 F I believe it is till they are dry. You could just use gloves when handling the barley, might be the easiest solution. Going to try a 50/50 miz of red winter wheat and white wheat sprouted for my next sprouted tea, after reading that article. Don't have any barley that will sprout but I have some whole wheat. Should supply plenty of chitinase.
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I am definitely going to try just using gloves, but if the problem persists, I'm looking into alternatives. But the malted barley has been working excellent, so I'd rather just keep it going for sure!

I'm using blumats for watering, only been topdressing and watering in with the aloe/silica (I grow the aloe, and use dyna-grow for the silica). Super easy, not looking to make things more complicated. If I can get a hold of a better camera, I'll post some pics of my Blueberry Headband G13 and GG #4 - they are out of this world. Now I'm just ooking for 2 more nice phenotypes (hopefully a pineapple chunk, and maybe a purple trainwreck).
 
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stonedmonkey93

Member
Groat21 said:
I am using the Clackamas Coot mix/routine (mostly). I've got my no-till bed all set up, going great. Top dressing with Malted Barley Powder, Kelp, and Neem.

I'm having some issues with the barley though. I've been getting a rash on my hands when working in there. Just wondering if other grains that are gluten free (I'm gluten intolerant) would work just as well? I seem to recall him saying any grains will be fine.

Thanks guys!
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Hey Fam,
is there any alternatives for Kelp meal? Kelp meal is not available in where i live. I can get kelp extract powder though. Will the coots mix create nutriet deficiency if i avoid kelp meal from the coots mix and use kelp extract as a foliar spray or in watering? Are there any alternatives to kelp meal?
 
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living gardening

Well-Known Member
stonedmonkey93 said:
Hey Fam,
is there any alternatives for Kelp meal? Kelp meal is not available in where i live. I can get kelp extract powder though. Will the coots mix create nutriet deficiency if i avoid kelp meal from the coots mix and use kelp extract as a foliar spray or in watering? Are there any alternatives to kelp meal?
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Do you have a livestock feed store near you??? If so, that would be where to source your kelp meal from.
 
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stonedmonkey93

Member
living gardening said:
Do you have a livestock feed store near you??? If so, that would be where to source your kelp meal from.
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They don't use it at all here in india. Kelp meal is not available anywhere bro. I checked. Will chicken manure be a good alternative for kelp meal as kelp is a N source and chicken manure have it. I can use kelp extract to feed the plant for the other benefits?
 
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living gardening

Well-Known Member
You usually seek kelp for the trace minerals that are accumulated in sea plants. It has more to do with the contents of the plant instead of the NPK value. You could possibly use sea weed from bodies of water in your area, you would want to compost it for at least 4-6 mo first though.
 
Fluffy Butt

Fluffy Butt

Well-Known Member
stonedmonkey93 said:
Hey Fam,
is there any alternatives for Kelp meal? Kelp meal is not available in where i live. I can get kelp extract powder though. Will the coots mix create nutriet deficiency if i avoid kelp meal from the coots mix and use kelp extract as a foliar spray or in watering? Are there any alternatives to kelp meal?
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Comfrey meal might be able to serve as a replacement for kelp meal. It's a dynamic accumulator like kelp, and is extremely prolific. You can use it in the soil mix, top dress it, incorporate it into your mulch, or make a tea with it.

Otherwise, the kelp extract should have most of the trace minerals you're after, it's just a bit more complicated to use.
 
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stonedmonkey93

Member
Fluffy Butt said:
Comfrey meal might be able to serve as a replacement for kelp meal. It's a dynamic accumulator like kelp, and is extremely prolific. You can use it in the soil mix, top dress it, incorporate it into your mulch, or make a tea with it.

Otherwise, the kelp extract should have most of the trace minerals you're after, it's just a bit more complicated to use.
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Yea, it's very concentrated the extract. Will I be facing with any deficiencies if o avoid kelp meal in coots mix alltogether or supplement with a different N amendment? I see kelp is having the N as primary macro
 
Fluffy Butt

Fluffy Butt

Well-Known Member
stonedmonkey93 said:
Yea, it's very concentrated the extract. Will I be facing with any deficiencies if o avoid kelp meal in coots mix alltogether or supplement with a different N amendment? I see kelp is having the N as primary macro
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I'm really not sure. I suppose it will depend on the qualities of your other inputs. Chances are you will eventually run into some deficiencies, in which case it would be best to get the soilless mix tested so you aren't amending blindly. But if its a simple N deficiency, something like alfalfa meal or neem cake should help correct it. Neem and alfalfa are both dynamic accumulators, so that would help provide a number of other things as well.
 
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