Looking for Feedback / Advice

Okay, I'm the new guy - new to the forum, new to hydroponics, and so on.

My first shot at 'ponics I'm basically planning to a six-pot DWC built into a 18gal rubbermade bin thingy. There's gotta be dozens of the same design out there commerically and home-built. I'm gonna build my own.

I'll be growing spinach, lettuce, and probably collard greens for a number of different reasons. A: I'm paranoid as fuck so I'm not gonna photograph anything illegal (and if I screw stuff up I need to post pictures so people can tell me what I did wrong). B: Those seeds are cheap as hell so I can start over as many times as I like and be out like 10 cents. And of course C: I'm a cheapskate and I want to prove to myself I can grow something without killing it before I invest in some expensive lights. So I want something veg-only.

I've got all the parts for building the DWC set-up tracked down and figured out.

So here's what I'm thinking: I've got to get an EC meter (or something that does that job) - that's a given. I'll need pH strips and/or a meter, but I can probably do the meter like the lights - prove myself as grower rather than a killer before I start buying the more expensive toys. I need to get net pots and media (probably hydroton and some rockwool cubes). I need a simple florescent light like the 20" or whatever two-tube fixture. Toss in a timer for the lights. And of course I need nutrients.


First question: Am I forgetting anything in that list?

Second question: Any suggestions where to get that stuff on a budget?


I "know a guy" who swears by AN, and I definitely like what I read about some of their stuff, but (same as the lights and such) I can't really justify going out to buy fancy nutes if I haven't proven I can grow with hydro first. I'm not a teenager any more, so I like to think I've learned to keep my potential mistakes as cheap as possible. So what I'm looking for is something in the "not crap" category that's not expensive either and would work well with leafy foliage plants like I'm talking about.

Then, once I've got the skills to back it up, I can think about getting some fancy lights and a NFT with kick-ass nutes and so forth.


I just figure it makes more sense to learn to drive on the POS Ford crapmobile and buy the Corvette once you have a clue how to not smash it into stuff, right?

Well I've been price shopping and making equipment lists and so forth and here's what I've accomplished:

Air Pump - decent two-port aquarium pump for about $15 at Wally World.
Tubing and Stones - 50 foot roll for about $4 and long stones for about $4.50 each at Wally World.
25 gal Rubbermaid bin - $8-9 pretty much anywhere.
Wire shelves - $25-30 at Target, Walmart, etc.

I still need net pots, grow medium, nutrients, lights, and meters. I've looked and I just can't find a local shop that sells this kind of stuff with any level of reasonable quality. Can someone recommend a good US online shop? I just need some basic 4-6" net pots, probably hydroton medium (I'm thinking of just using Jiffy-7 starters to germinate), cheap basic nutrients, pH strips, an EC meter (I do need one, right?) and a run-of-the-mill 2-tube florescent light around 2 feet long.

If anyone has any suggestions I'd love to hear them. I'm planning to make my final purchases within the next week, hopefully start my seeds this week so I can build my DWC and have it tested out before the seeds are ready.

As far as the lights are concerned I know they'll be a bit underpowered, but this is a test run of my abilities and the equipment using most likely just some leafy vegetables so being able to pound them with lumens isn't vital. Even so, what would be the best bulbs to get? I've also heard that those CFM bulbs (the twisty "power saver" type that you can use in the place of regular incandescents) aren't too bad for growing. Is that true of all of them or are there certain ones that give better spectrum output?

Just a quick one. I know we are not supposed to jump on other peoples threads, but is there anything besides purpose made hydro nutes that you can use? Hydro nutes are so expensive where I live It would be cheaper to buy than grow hydro. This is one of the reasons I only grow soil.

It is perfectly fine to jump on other peoples threads especially if they are seeking advice. Thats is the idea here.

MalteseGrower said:

Just a quick one. I know we are not supposed to jump on other peoples threads, but is there anything besides purpose made hydro nutes that you can use? Hydro nutes are so expensive where I live It would be cheaper to buy than grow hydro. This is one of the reasons I only grow soil.

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I've heard of people using stuff like Miracle Grow as a hydroponic nutrient, but I think most people agree that it sucks for that use. I read somewhere about a guy that was using Shultz (or something like that) fertilizer as a nutrient and his plants were growing - they looked healthy but weren't spectacular or anything. I saw that stuff at Lowes so I could alway buy it (something like $2.50 for a small bottle - no idea how long it would last).

I don't particularly care that much whether it's a dedicated hydroponics nutrient or not. This first grow is mainly to prove to myself that I can do it, but if I can find a relatively inexpensive 2 or 3 part nutrient so much the better. Ultimately the cost of the nutrient isn't the major concern. I found a place I can buy AN nutes from at a good price (for AN) and while they aren't cheap, they're not crazy-expensive either.

For me it's a hobby, not a business. I don't expect to make money or even really save much (if any). It's something I do for the sense of accomplishment and pride of growing my own.

Plus, there's the security of knowing exactly what's gone into your plants. Who knows for certain what another grower does before you get the final product from him?


EDIT: Just thought of something - there is one concern with whatever nutrient I end up getting. I need it to be relatively clean. Nothing that's going to screw up my gear (and I know hydro nutes won't) and nothing that's really smelly, since I'm not building a full stealth grow for this and I don't want my house to stink.

MalteseGrower said:

Just a quick one. I know we are not supposed to jump on other peoples threads, but is there anything besides purpose made hydro nutes that you can use? Hydro nutes are so expensive where I live It would be cheaper to buy than grow hydro. This is one of the reasons I only grow soil.

Click to expand...

Well dang...you seem to be carrying on a purty good conversation with yourself here. You got mulitple personalities maybe I would get some good hydro nutes..heck no more that a person uses of the stuff cost couldnt be that big of a factor. Less he/she was growing wholesale or similar. Get some ProBlend grow and bloom from the dopeheads down at the hydro store. Just buy the bloom and use it the whole time (got this hot tip just the other day on here..thanks to whoever gave out that good advice) Twenty bucks each. Tell you you should be able to go to your local restaurant supply store and buy some plastic silverware holding baskets. Make perfect netpots. They are cylindric fairly deep have a nice rim around the top to fit the holes in the rubbermaid without falling through...and got plenty of cuts and holes in it to make room for roots to slither around. Or you could go by the school cafeteria and axe the lady in charge if she has any she will give you. They go through millions of em. Bet I got 30 in the trunk of the car which come from the cafeteria lady. I have heard bad stories about them hydroton rocks..they supposed to really jack with your ph. You have to wash soak and rinse em in the propaly ph'd water 9 times before use. That sounds like a pain in the coola to me. Now I did not notice you mentioning a submergible pump so guess you just gonna try to keep the water level up to the netpots? I was thinking of building one like that myself. I dont think a person needs them water pumps on that deal. If they do my new AG gizmo should not work..but it does cuz I got some Habs 7 inches high..well one anyway...so that proves my point. Good talking with ya.

Big Wheel

hugetom80s said:

I've heard of people using stuff like Miracle Grow as a hydroponic nutrient, but I think most people agree that it sucks for that use. I read somewhere about a guy that was using Shultz (or something like that) fertilizer as a nutrient and his plants were growing - they looked healthy but weren't spectacular or anything. I saw that stuff at Lowes so I could alway buy it (something like $2.50 for a small bottle - no idea how long it would last).

I don't particularly care that much whether it's a dedicated hydroponics nutrient or not. This first grow is mainly to prove to myself that I can do it, but if I can find a relatively inexpensive 2 or 3 part nutrient so much the better. Ultimately the cost of the nutrient isn't the major concern. I found a place I can buy AN nutes from at a good price (for AN) and while they aren't cheap, they're not crazy-expensive either.

For me it's a hobby, not a business. I don't expect to make money or even really save much (if any). It's something I do for the sense of accomplishment and pride of growing my own.

Plus, there's the security of knowing exactly what's gone into your plants. Who knows for certain what another grower does before you get the final product from him?


EDIT: Just thought of something - there is one concern with whatever nutrient I end up getting. I need it to be relatively clean. Nothing that's going to screw up my gear (and I know hydro nutes won't) and nothing that's really smelly, since I'm not building a full stealth grow for this and I don't want my house to stink.

Click to expand...

Thanks for the tips.

I'm not sure what you mean about talking to myself. Do you not see the other people in the thread or something?

bigwheel said:

Well dang...you seem to be carrying on a purty good conversation with yourself here. You got mulitple personalities maybe I would get some good hydro nutes..heck no more that a person uses of the stuff cost couldnt be that big of a factor. Less he/she was growing wholesale or similar. Get some ProBlend grow and bloom from the dopeheads down at the hydro store. Just buy the bloom and use it the whole time (got this hot tip just the other day on here..thanks to whoever gave out that good advice) Twenty bucks each. Tell you you should be able to go to your local restaurant supply store and buy some plastic silverware holding baskets. Make perfect netpots. They are cylindric fairly deep have a nice rim around the top to fit the holes in the rubbermaid without falling through...and got plenty of cuts and holes in it to make room for roots to slither around. Or you could go by the school cafeteria and axe the lady in charge if she has any she will give you. They go through millions of em. Bet I got 30 in the trunk of the car which come from the cafeteria lady. I have heard bad stories about them hydroton rocks..they supposed to really jack with your ph. You have to wash soak and rinse em in the propaly ph'd water 9 times before use. That sounds like a pain in the coola to me. Now I did not notice you mentioning a submergible pump so guess you just gonna try to keep the water level up to the netpots? I was thinking of building one like that myself. I dont think a person needs them water pumps on that deal. If they do my new AG gizmo should not work..but it does cuz I got some Habs 7 inches high..well one anyway...so that proves my point. Good talking with ya.

Big Wheel

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hugetom80s said:

Thanks for the tips.

I'm not sure what you mean about talking to myself. Do you not see the other people in the thread or something?

Click to expand...

wtf???? That was wierd.

Ok ok I will try and help you out the best I can. IMHO I would not use the rubbermaid bin for multiple plants in DWC. Why... simply because if one plant has a difficiency will have to remove one of them to treat the sick one. I know this doesn't sound so bad but what about in 6 weeks when their the roots of each plant tangle up, then what do you do. Again this is just my opinion. I have seen DWC roots fill up 7 gallon buckets, and I mean FILL. Another reason is just think of all the nute you will need for a 25 gallon tote, compared to 2-3 5g buckets.

As far as lights go I have better luck with high power CFL's. I have bought the 100w CFL's that say they equal a 200w incandescent, and for only 8 bucks at my local wally world. CFL's are cheap enough and plenty bright enough to grow plants, get three 100w bulbs for two plants. 1000bulbs.com has cheap ones as well and million to chose from so go and look there.

For your nutes I can personally attest that GH three part works GREAT in DWC and there is loads of info on those nutes. I am referring to nutrient tables and ratio amounts as well as GH boosters. If you are looking for something that works great and super easy to use look into DutchMaster ONE series. You will need 2 bottle... one for veggin and one for flowering and thats it.

I have always used Hydroton in my DWC systems and I never PH balanced anything. I don't think that I had any PH problems as the GH nutes are PH balanced and as long as your water is about 7PH then the nutes drop it to about 6.8 and that is about where it seemed to stay. I did eventually buy a cheap TDS and a cheap PH meter off eBay. They both work just fine but need to be calibrated about every 3-4 days so about twice as often as a good one.
As for the netpots just keep your eye open for anything that might work. Walk up and down the Walmart housewares department, and the hardware department as well. I know that I see things that I think I can use for something all the time.

Thanks for all them good tips there MD. Appreciate it. Why not just do a few Hempy Buckets? Thanks.

Big Wheel

mdgcmd said:

Ok ok I will try and help you out the best I can. IMHO I would not use the rubbermaid bin for multiple plants in DWC. Why... simply because if one plant has a difficiency will have to remove one of them to treat the sick one. I know this doesn't sound so bad but what about in 6 weeks when their the roots of each plant tangle up, then what do you do. Again this is just my opinion. I have seen DWC roots fill up 7 gallon buckets, and I mean FILL. Another reason is just think of all the nute you will need for a 25 gallon tote, compared to 2-3 5g buckets.

As far as lights go I have better luck with high power CFL's. I have bought the 100w CFL's that say they equal a 200w incandescent, and for only 8 bucks at my local wally world. CFL's are cheap enough and plenty bright enough to grow plants, get three 100w bulbs for two plants. 1000bulbs.com has cheap ones as well and million to chose from so go and look there.

For your nutes I can personally attest that GH three part works GREAT in DWC and there is loads of info on those nutes. I am referring to nutrient tables and ratio amounts as well as GH boosters. If you are looking for something that works great and super easy to use look into DutchMaster ONE series. You will need 2 bottle... one for veggin and one for flowering and thats it.

I have always used Hydroton in my DWC systems and I never PH balanced anything. I don't think that I had any PH problems as the GH nutes are PH balanced and as long as your water is about 7PH then the nutes drop it to about 6.8 and that is about where it seemed to stay. I did eventually buy a cheap TDS and a cheap PH meter off eBay. They both work just fine but need to be calibrated about every 3-4 days so about twice as often as a good one.
As for the netpots just keep your eye open for anything that might work. Walk up and down the Walmart housewares department, and the hardware department as well. I know that I see things that I think I can use for something all the time.

Click to expand...

bigwheel said:

Thanks for all them good tips there MD. Appreciate it. Why not just do a few Hempy Buckets? Thanks.

Big Wheel

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Well I don't need the bucket anymore. I am an aero grower... a "TRUE AERO GROWER" No aero/NFT hybrid I mean the real deal.

To be honest though I have had only a few fully successful grows despite growing for well over 3 years. Robberies, seem to be the number one reason for failure, but having to move, and paranoia has played a part on several occasions.

Thanks for the advice mdgcmd, really good points.

Everything I've read suggests that Hydroton is pH neutral, so it's good to hear that you've had the same experience. All things considered it just seems like a hard-to-beat hydroponic medium. Much easier to keep in place (since you don't have to have small holes to keep it from falling out), re-usable if you clean it properly, and so on.

I'd thought about the CFL's, but it just seemed to me that if I went that route I'd end up using a ton of them. How does 2-3 100w CFLs compare output-wise to, say, a 2 or 4 foot double bulb fluorescent fixture (like a shop light)?


Also, I hadn't thought of the issues with root entanglement with a DWC set-up. Honestly I think on this grow I'm still going to go that way simply because I'm just going to have a couple kinds of lettuce, some collard greens, spinach, and maybe basil. (I'm leaving the training wheels on the bike, in a manner of speaking.)

Though I do have an idea for solving that particular problem... I'll have to see if I can make it work. Maybe I can come up with a new design.

mdgcmd said:

Ok ok I will try and help you out the best I can. IMHO I would not use the rubbermaid bin for multiple plants in DWC. Why... simply because if one plant has a difficiency will have to remove one of them to treat the sick one. I know this doesn't sound so bad but what about in 6 weeks when their the roots of each plant tangle up, then what do you do. Again this is just my opinion. I have seen DWC roots fill up 7 gallon buckets, and I mean FILL. Another reason is just think of all the nute you will need for a 25 gallon tote, compared to 2-3 5g buckets.

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cut your bad plants or males as close to the roots as possible. add Hygrozyme to your res and in a few weeks the rotting dead roots leftover will be chemically broken down by the hygrozyme into useful food for your other plants.
just keep eye on ppms.

That's exactly what I do, except I use SensiZym from AN. I've found it works at least as well, if not better. Plus I prefer to buy my nutrients and stuff in larger quantities, and SensiZym has a much longer shelf-life.

Gotta remember, this stuff has got enzymes in it (thus the "zym" part of the name) and it's basically organic materials. If it sits around too long it basically dies.

So yeah, bit of an Advanced Nutrients fanboi here, but I I'd recommend SensiZym over Hygrozyme unless you just can't get your hands on AN stuff where you live. Worth every penny IMO.

Pea gravel or aquarium rocks a 1/4 in. diameter works just fine in a dwc. Cut a small hole in the top of the lid so you can use a turkey baster to water the plants until the roots hit the water. Or you can have a higher water level, about 3/4 of the way up the pot and run it that way until the roots propagate down into the mix.