Look at these insane conspiracy theorists

matthew said:

There is a big difference between a "new world order" and globalization. Also how is it a conspiracy if the people admit to it?

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Um.. no there isn't a big difference (if so, feel free to point it out).. the New World Order theory is that there is a group of individuals privately trying to make a world government.. there are many off shots of the theory to the different proposed ways they are trying to attain this, but the base of the theory IS globalization.

And exactly. It can't be a 'conspiracy theory' if it's all admitted.. but that's what they call it..

No surprise.. as with many other things, society just says it doesn't exist.. and magically.. it doesn't..

Bongulator said:

You realize it's not their Jewishness that makes them successful, right? It's education and brains and drive. It's a traditional Jewish thing to drill into their kids' brains that education is important and leads to success, and it does. Not just in the banking industry either. Look at the percentage of Nobel Peace Prize winners that are Jewish. Considering their low population, Jews just dominate the Nobels. No other ethnic group has, per capita, made such important contributions to human knowledge and enlightenment.

I don't know that it's really all that racist. You're basically just saying, "Hey, look! Educated smart people are frequently successful!" Well, yeah, they are. And it just so happens that many are Jewish, because of their focus on education and success.

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You must be really successful, cause you're smart... lol...

Good way to put it Mate...

And remember kids... EDUCATION PAYS OFF....!!!!

HotNSexyMILF said:

Um.. no there isn't a big difference (if so, feel free to point it out).. the New World Order theory is that there is a group of individuals privately trying to make a world government.. there are many off shots of the theory to the different proposed ways they are trying to attain this, but the base of the theory IS globalization.

And exactly. It can't be a 'conspiracy theory' if it's all admitted.. but that's what they call it..

No surprise.. as with many other things, society just says it doesn't exist.. and magically.. it doesn't..

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I think the biggest difference is that "New World Order" types see it has a secret cabal of X number of men meeting in secret rooms, deciding which wars to start and which countries to bankrupt. On the other hand globalization would be individual countries basically having poris borders and free trade, imagine the EU but on a global scale. You would have a real "world court", "world central bank" and a "world government" made up by representatives from each country. Personally I see that as a great idea if we could get everyone to conform to our basic system of government.

matthew said:

You have to understand that spouting neo-nazi and extreme-islamist positions is like starting a conversation with "Hitler was a great guy....." Its a non-starter. If you are really convicned of this lay out the facts and then tie it all together, don't start off with "the evil Zionist".

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My position is not Neo-Nazi at all. It's just the facts maam. If you come from a long line of jewish bankers. great-great grandparents etc., How could you not be successful. If your parents have a shitpot full of money, you are going to be successful whether you want to be not. Even the black sheep of the family always leads a successful life, or maybe just a rich spoiled brat life, but I'll guarantee you, the worst kid from a rich jewish banking family lives an easier life than the best kid from a middle class family. Yeah I know that life is not fair. I didn't get to 68 without figuring that out. What I'm trying to say about the jewish bankers is this: "He who has the gold rules", the golden rule, and this applies to everything, from corporations to governments. This bailout will be paying off jewish bankers, think Rothchilds;
The Rothschild family (often referred to simply as the Rothschilds), is an international banking and finance dynasty of German Jewish origin that established operations across Europe, and was ennobled by the Austrian and British governments.

medicineman said:

I didn't get to 68 without figuring that out.

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lol thats all I needed to see. My wife's grandfather is a lifelong democrat but refuses to vote for Obama because "I can't vote for a nigger", but then claims not to be a racist.....

Old people make me laugh.

matthew said:

lol thats all I needed to see. My wife's grandfather is a lifelong democrat but refuses to vote for Obama because "I can't vote for a nigger", but then claims not to be a racist.....

Old people make me laugh.

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Which is worse? People stereotyping Obama on race or

stereotyping that all old people just ramble incoherently and are stuck in their ways.

A stereotype is usually based on something, even loosely but you have to look on an individual level.

A stereotype is a stereotype, quit being hypocritical.

Granted Medoman here is a lil off beat but I wouldn't classify him completely senile.

Rebuilding America's Defenses, September 2000, Project for a New American Century
Dick Cheney, Jeb Bush and the rest of the neo-conservatives

... While the unresolved conflict with Iraq provides the immediate justification, the need for a substantial American force presence in the Gulf transcends the issue of the regime of Saddam Hussein ...
... the process of [military] transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor ...
... advanced forms of biological warfare that can "target" specific genotypes may transform biological warfare from the realm of terror to a politically useful tool.

They said it not me.

Then you have 15 countries warnings
5 squashed FBI investigations into terrorists. With/Whistle blowers Google Sibel Edmonds
40 white house briefings about "imminent terrorist attacks"
Over 20 warnings not to fly that day including John Ashcroft
The guy who gave them their passports in Saudi Arabia turned them down then was overturned by superiors-Also spoke out
Dick Cheney caught in his secretive "Energy Task Force" Meetings back in 2000 with maps of Iraqi oil fields<-----Thats called motive in legal speak
Bin Ladin/CIA ties back to afganistan in 1979

But you are a koo koo nut ball for bringing this up. It seems like the only people that did not know were the citizens. Who needs stupid control demolition theories there is more than enough to prove COMPLICITY

I know all these things which can be sourced by multiple sources. I guess the neocons and PNAC just got luck when they were wishing for a New Pearl Harbor to cary our their world and oil domination goals.

If it was any more obvious it would smack you in the face

Well, what you have basically done is the equivalent of laying out a bunch of ingredients for pie, and then saying, "There must be a pie here!" Nope, just the ingredients for making one. Cheney lies a lot. Cheney was CIA. The CIA funded Osama when he was working against the Russians in the 70s and 80s. Therefore Osama bin Laden is CIA! And therefore --- ba da da DUM -- the CIA blew up the World Trade Center! Uh, sure, okay. Don't take that tinfoil hat off or they'll get you! Boo!

HotNSexyMILF said:

They haven't begun any takeover? Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act, the numerous Executive orders giving Bush dictatorial powers.. powers being handed over to the UN to supersede our laws..

And there's many people who have come forward- most of whom have been murdered and "committed suicide"...

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TY TY

A guy with no flight experience whatsoever flew a 747 jet into a building 5 stories high, and NORAD was nowhere to be found, and to this day they wont show us the videos of it...so much other shit that doesnt add up, but theres plenty of threads about that already.

Bongulator said:

Well, what you have basically done is the equivalent of laying out a bunch of ingredients for pie, and then saying, "There must be a pie here!" Nope, just the ingredients for making one. Cheney lies a lot. Cheney was CIA. The CIA funded Osama when he was working against the Russians in the 70s and 80s. Therefore Osama bin Laden is CIA! And therefore --- ba da da DUM -- the CIA blew up the World Trade Center! Uh, sure, okay. Don't take that tinfoil hat off or they'll get you! Boo!

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Jesus christ dude, you could write a book on this. First of all I did not say the buildings were blown up. All I did was give some highlights. You are correct, lol, I could not take what I wrote in my post to a court.

Here are a few more things to ponder.

For most North Americans, 9/11 is a "cut and dried" story - evil Arab terrorists attacked the US, there's nothing more to learn. At worst, in many people's minds, there was an "intelligence failure" of missed warnings that need to be addressed to prevent a repeat (the excuse for the new Homeland Security behemoth). However, there are lots of "unanswered questions" that suggest a much different story:

- a flight school drop out managed to execute a high speed, high G fighter pilot maneuver into the nearly empty, under reconstruction part of the Pentagon despite the refusal to rent him a single engine plane the previous month (they said he had no flying skills),

- that the hijackers left behind an Arabic language flight manual in their rental car in Boston (similar to evidence planted to incriminate Lee Harvey Oswald as the assassin despite the physical impossibility of the claim that he was the "lone gunman")

- why the "black boxes" couldn't be found from the planes yet a paper passport of a hijacker somehow survived the fireballs and was found on the streets of lower manhattan

- why Bush thought that reading to second graders was more important for him than to respond to the alleged surprise attacks (at 9:05 am on 9/11/2001)

- why was the CIA ran a simulation of a plane hitting the National Reconnaissance Office HQ (near Dulles) on 9/11

- why numerous warnings from allied governments were supposedly ignored (at least a dozen countries, possibly more, warned the US that 9/11 was coming)

- the absolute failure to scramble interceptors in a timely fashion, despite decades of well-established military and FAA procedures. The fact that Bush stayed in a second grade classroom reading about a "Girl and her pet goat" instead of cancelling the event and pretending to be commander-in-chief is damning evidence of prior knowledge by Bush, his staff, the secret service and the military hierarchy (or at least a faction of it).

- why the General in charge of Air Defense received a PROMOTION to run the "domestic" use of the US military (the "Northern Command," established October 2002)

- why the planes that eventually were scrambled traveled much, much slower than they are capable of traveling, especially in an emergency (ie. after the second tower was hit but before the Pentagon)

- why the part of the Pentagon that was hit was the only part that had almost no one in it, and the part that had been recently strengthened against such an attack

- why the CEO of Fiduciary (in the towers) just happened to be at a breakfast "fundraiser" sponsored by Warren Buffett at Offutt AFB (strange place for a charity fundraiser) on 9/11, the same base that Bush went to in the afternoon

- On the morning of 9/11, Sen. Graham met with the head of Pakistan's ISI (their CIA), who is alleged to have sent $100,000 to Mohammed Atta, the alleged leader of the alleged terrorists ("alleged" because several of those names were identity thefts - the people named are still alive, according to the BBC and several other media sources).

- why Bush showed no reaction when told of the attacks, and kept reading to second graders (and why his aide, Andrew Card, didn't even wait to ask for a reply from the "President")

- why Bush had anti-aircraft missiles set up around Genoa, Italy during the July 2001 G-8 summit (due to concerns about a 9-11 type attack) but not around the Capitol despite numerous warnings that 9-11 was coming

- long standing ties between the CIA, Pakistan's ISI, the Saudis, al-Qaeda, and between the Bush and Bin Laden families

- the anthrax attacks traced back to Fort Detrick - Anthrax attacks on Senate Democrats and the media

- repeated pattern of manufactured pretexts for galvanizing support for imperial wars - the blowing up of the Maine (189, Pearl Harbor (which was allowed to happen, FDR had prior knowledge due to communication intercepts), the Gulf of Tonkin (1964), Operation Northwoods (1962 Pentagon plan to stage terror attacks on US citizens to justify invasion of Cuba), the encouragement of Saddam Hussein's invasion of Kuwait (1990), the first WTC attack in 1993 (which the FBI knew about in advance), Oklahoma City in 1995 (in which there was also "prior knowledge" at the very least) - Parallels to 9/11: Northwoods, Pearl Harbor, 9/9/99 (Russia)

- why the director of the "commission" to investigate 9/11 is a business partner of Osama bin Laden's brother in law (Gov Thomas Kean, formerly of New Jersey, is a director of Amerada Hess, which is invested in the Saudi consortium to build the fabled pipeline across Afghanistan ...) Even Fortune magazine has picked up on that.

- why the Bush regime interfered with the investigation of al-Qaeda before 9/11, something that FBI whistleblowers, journalist Greg Palast and FBI counterterrorism director John O'Neill charged.


Means - Dick Cheney and the Secret Service: Dick Cheney was running a completely separate chain of Command & Control via the Secret Service, assuring the paralysis of Air Force response on 9/11. The Secret Service has the technology to see the same radar screens the FAA sees in real time. They also have the legal authority and technological capability to take supreme command in cases of national emergency. Dick Cheney was the acting Commander in Chief on 9/11.

Motive - Peak Oil: At some point between 2000 and 2007, world oil production reaches its peak; from that point on, every barrel of oil is going to be harder to find, more expensive to recover, and more valuable to those who recover and control it. Dick Cheney was well aware of the coming Peak Oil crisis at least as early as 1999, and 9/11 provided the pretext for the series of energy wars that Cheney stated, "will not end in our lifetime."

Opportunity - 9/11 War Games: The Air Force was running multiple war games on the morning of 9/11 simulating hijackings over the continental United States that included (at least) one "live-fly" exercise as well as simulations that placed "false blips" on FAA radar screens. These war games eerily mirrored the real events of 9/11 to the point of the Air Force running drills involving hijacked aircraft as the 9/11 plot actually unfolded. The war games & terror drills played a critical role in ensuring no Air Force fighter jocks - who had trained their entire lives for this moment - would be able to prevent the attacks from succeeding. These exercises were under Dick Cheney's management.

9/11 research is a rabbit-hole of Byzantine complexity full of snares and delusions and peopled with false friends, lunatics, earnest lost souls and a few heroes. It's not necessary to understand all the nuances of science and bureaucracy that allowed the government to get away with mass murder, blame it on swarthy foreigners (of whom many are eager accomplices) and use the incident as (in the words of the Cheney, Jeb Bush et al cabal, the Project for a New American Century) "a new Pearl Harbor." At this critical juncture in human history, it's only necessary to understand why they did it. The motive was Peak Oil, a disaster which will affect everyone on the planet, about which all must enlighten themselves and for which all must prepare

Dogma may be defined as established opinion, a doctrine put forth without evidence, or as a body of doctrines supported authoritatively by a church. But when you consider a combination of all three--an established opinion without evidence, supported by the authority of supernatural beliefs--you have a summation of everything that the JREF is opposed to. As it so happens, religion is the largest central distributor of dogma, but you can find it within other circles of opinion as well.

Theology is defined as "faith justified by reason." But this is another way of saying "A conclusion in search of a justification." This was the dominant philosophical approach of the dark ages, and it was this habit that kept them in the dark. Beliefs were fortified and communicated, supported only by citations of other beliefs, forming a circle of opinion with no means of objective correction. Theology remained a circle jerk, somewhat like partisan bloggers, who reinforce their mutual preconceptions by echoing them back and forth, referencing each other, accepting only what evidence confirms their beliefs and ignoring the rest (when they reference evidence at all.) This is the modus operendi of dogmatists, and it can become a prison which is difficult escape. This is what made science impossible in the dark ages, and it was only when a central dogmatic authority of the Catholic Church was shattered that science and philosophy could flourish.

This same hermetically sealed community of belief can also be found amongst political ideologues, proponents of various pseudo-sciences and occult dogmas, and amongst conspiracy theorists. Conspiracy theorists are notorious for this tendency to form communities of the deluded, for in their case the opinions they hold are often so outrageously wrong that conspiracists often appear genuinely insane. The internet has been instrumental in the rise of new conspiracy theories because it provides the opportunity to form the kind of closed, circular, and mutually reinforcing groupthink which was previously available only to close knit religious communities or tightly structured political groups. This means that conspiracists should be properly considered as a species of dogmatic believer similar to members of a religious sect.

Religious and political philosophies, however, may incorporate valid ethical and social observations, which may attract followers with different motivations, diluting the purely dogmatic elements. Consumers of pseudo-science make common cognitive mistakes which requires research to dispel; many may simply have not taken the time to know better, and may not have much at stake (those who pay thousands to psychics and faith healers are another matter). Their entertainment of nonsense may be casual and not a central feature of their personality; when the stakes are high, they go to a doctor, not a homeopath. Conspiracy theorists, on the other hand, are usually quite dedicated and quite vociferous in what they believe. But most importantly, conspiracists are barking mad--pure dogmatists. Examination of conspiracists will throw light on the nature and habits of purely dogmatic believers of all kinds.

Conspiracists share in common with other dogmatic believers the following traits:

1) Epistemological Incompetence. Conspiracists lack basic tools of comprehension concerning the way the world works. These include a poor understanding of logic, science, and human nature. They have little or no grasp of what James Flynn calls shorthand abstractions (SHA's). SHA's include the concepts of the market, percentage, natural selection, random samples, control groups, the naturalistic fallacy, the charisma effect, placebo effect, falsifiability and tautology, and the tolerance school fallacy. Some of these you may recognize by name, and I'm not going to go into a full explanation of all of them. Flynn's work is stellar. He is best known for the Flynn effect, the measured gradual rise in IQ over the last century. His conception of the SHA's is a must read; Flynn believes that the acceptance of scientific ways of thinking is responsible for the Flynn effect. You can find it here. This is where he lists and describes the SHA's and several anti-SHA's, the latter being common misperceptions leading to false conclusions.

The important point is that these are tools needed to understand the modern world. Without them, conspiracists literally do not understand how the world works. This is the root cause of all of their other problems. The conspiracy theory not only exploits this weakness, but reinforces it. Acceptance of conspiracy theories may in the long term actually impair the ability for critical thinking. One conspiracy theory leads to another, and all seem to lead, eventually, to the moral and cognitive black hole of anti-semitism.

2) Epistemological Relativism. Since conspiracists do not understand the methods for reaching a correct conclusion, all conclusions are equal and based solely upon the weight of authority. In short, there is no truth, only opinion. It is a sad fact that someone can acquire a scientific or technical degree without ever fully understanding the scientific method. It is possible to take the results of science as received wisdom, and parrot it back successfully on exams, without understanding how it was derived. Dogmas are conclusions, cues to stop thinking, rather than means of arriving at conclusions. There are some that will learn science in this way, and never move beyond the dogmatic mindset.

3) Confirmation Bias. Conspiracists disregard arguments that refute their thesis, usually by relying on the Genetic Fallacy--the source is in on the conspiracy, and therefore cannot be trusted. There is no truth, only opinion, and only the right opinion is acceptable. The Grand Cabal "got to them", or their interests are somehow served by the conspiracy. Their motives are therefore impure, and nothing they say can be considered worthy to discredit the conspiracy theory. Since conspiracists consider all arguments to be arguments from authority, the choice is not between correct methodologies, but correct authority.

4) Selective Bias. Conspiracists emphasize only those snippets of fact that confirm their beliefs, and disregard or dismiss the bulk of evidence which refutes their thesis. A common practice is quote mining, where a single statement (or even a portion of a statement) is quoted out of context as evidence for the theory. When the original source objects to the interpretation of the quote, the conspiracists fall back on the Genetic Fallacy, claiming that the source has been compromised since the original statement. Conspiracy theories are therefore unfalsifiable.

5) Exceptionalism. Conspiracists grant their own theories exception from logical or methodological principles that they routinely apply in the rest of their lives. Occam's Razor is a good example of an abandoned principle; it is hard to believe that a qualified engineer would not be familiar with this logical tool, yet there are many engineers amongst "Truthers", whose theories concerning the events of 9/11 multiply entities on a grand scale while the real explanation is remarkably simple.

6) 'Gaps' Arguments. Rather than provide a comprehensive argument, backed by evidence, conspiracists rely on a false dichotomy, attempting to argue that there are inconsistencies in the accepted explanation, and then presenting their own as the only alternative. When these gaps are filled the conspiracists pretend not to hear the new evidence, and continue to point to gaps that have in fact been filled. Since this new information contradicts their claims, it will not appear in discussions amongst the conspiracists, and will be blithely ignored when presented by someone else. This additional information is, in their mind, intended to refute what they have already decided is true and therefore obviously ideologically based and not worthy of consideration.

7) Theory of Agency rather than Process. For the conspiracist, there are no coincidences. Everything happens for a reason, and that reason is always an intentional agent. Any large scale, frequent, or dramatic events must be the product of deliberate planning, and carried out by an commensurately powerful organization. If those events are negative, a vast malevolent agency or cabal is at work. Small criminal groups or sole individuals cannot be responsible. Ignorance, incompetence, poor planning, or impersonal forces cannot play a role. For those who do not understand how the world works, the question is not how, but who, a systematic misapplication of intentional explanations.

8.) Magic. For those who understand nothing about the world, all is magic. The agency is both supernaturally intelligent and powerful, and yet strangely inept. The cabal has virtually complete control of nearly all powerful institutions--economic, political, legal, social, criminal, and journalistic--yet somehow cannot prevent the conspiracists from uncovering their plot. They can, however, hide all the evidence, an ability which would require the cabal to command power that rivals the divine. Benjamin Franklin said that "Three can keep a secret, if two of them are dead." The conspiracists believes that plots involving thousands can operate without detection, thanks to the near omniscience and virtual omnipotence of the conspiracy, whose members are all unswervingly loyal to the cause.

9) Occult Knowledge. Despite the fantastic powers of the enemy, the conspiracists have uncovered the Hidden Truth, marking them as in some way the champions of divine providence. This too is no accident; the conspiracist possesses a rare and special virtue. The conspiracist is thus cast in a heroic light, often an overcompensation for the mundane reality of their personal lives. They alone have broken through the web of illusions created by the cabal, and it is their destiny to free the world. Their Truth trumps all lesser truths, so outright and deliberate lies are acceptable. The objective is not truth (which does not actually exist unless it is theirs--relativists always make exceptions for what they believe, otherwise the relativist argument itself would collapse) but victory.

10) Mutation, Adaptation, and Cross Breeding. As conspiracists meet contrary evidence, they continue to invent and share counter arguments in a piecemeal fashion. Exposure to reason and evidence, rather than correcting the theory, actually forces it to adapt to become a more reason-resistant strain. In effect, criticism acts as a form of natural selection, weeding out the rational proponents and isolating the loons, while at the same time forcing the theory itself to evolve into something which cannot be falsified by any means. Many conspiracist arguments actually contradict other arguments presented by the same conspiracist, because they are pieced together from variant conspiracy theories. Since conspiracy theories rely on gaps arguments, consistency is not important, and this is why one conspiracy theory leads to another--they share common elements indiscriminately. The only thing that is important is that the real explanation be refuted so that the conspiracist alternative may be offered in its place.

11) Evangelism. Spreading belief in the conspiracy theory is of the utmost importance. The conspiracist believes himself to be the sworn enemy of an immensely powerful malevolent enemy, which must be defeated. Telling others what he knows will make him a less appealing target for the enemy. But in spreading the word, he also becomes the hero in a grand cause, a paladin in gleaming armor against the dragon. Converting others to his beliefs will not only lessen his cognitive dissonance (he is, after all, often told that he is crazy), but will also convince others of his heroic stature. In the eyes of converts, he will go from zero to hero in one easy step.


Although details of justification may vary amongst dogmas, these traits appear to be common to all systems of dogma. Consider Stalinism and National Socialism, both political dogmas. Both employed conspiracy theories of their own. Their biases, and general aversion to truth and the means of establishing truth, are fairly obvious. More suprising, as supposedly secular dogmas, both were notorious dabblers in the occult and wholesale distributors of pseudo-science. In their support for Lysenkoism, the Stalinists apparently thought they were in the position to legislate the laws of science. Hitler railed against "Jewish science". Fortunately for us this included nuclear physics, and led the Nazis to abandon the development of nuclear weapons

so what if the conspiracy turns out to be true, then it doesnt count cause it wasnt a conspiracy theory? The military testing "mind control" drugs on random civilians, the US secretly overthrowing dictators and replacing them with more "friendly" leaders, planning to commit terrorist acts and blame them on cuba...Im sure these all seemed like crazy conspiracies at one time or another

Conspiracists lack basic tools of comprehension concerning the way the world works. These include a poor understanding of logic, science, and human nature.
oh, gee well If I wouldve known that...lol

I would not say that about conspiracy theorists. What I think I can say, after having spoken with many, is that they don't seem to appreciate Occam's Razor, and they tend to do what some who are fervently religious do--they craft the story in such a way that it fits the "evidence" (or lack thereof). So, I always ask them, To what end?

For instance, fluoridation of the water supply to control the minds of the masses. To what end? Aren't we more easily controlled by the media, and without the risk to their own family members? Or do those who believe this think that they've got special water or filters for their family members? What about their friends? What if they forgot someone? Ever read Harrison Bergeron? See the movie? It doesn't make sense. Same thing with chemtrails (now, that's some funny shit if you think about it, they're even poisoning themselves). If fluoridation of water supplies is really bad, then I, personally, ascribe it to badly designed and executed public policy. Sort of like thalidamide and the food pyramid.

We have plenty of very real and very nefarious conspiracies that get to the real meat of the matter for those who are so engaged--wealth, power, women, THINGS and stuff. That is the goal. Who cares if I can tell a million teenagers what to do? Once they do it, then what? I would have to have an ultimate goal, yes? That makes more sense.

I thought Peak Oil was a *different* conspiracy. Stay tuned for another episode of...When Conspiracies Collide!

I've gonna stay away from this thread.. it'll just bounce back and forth and I hate arguing with people.. bottom line- do your own research, and believe what you want, it's America..

But I did find it funny how someone said "you can't take anyone to court with this conspiracy stuff"... funny.. the FBI and CIA won't and can't charge Osama Bin Laden for 9/11 because they don't have enough evidence, they even had to admit that.. Look on the FBI's most wanted list on their own website.. Bin Laden is NOT wanted for 9/11.. now answer me why? Innocent until proven guilty in this country right?