Live undercurrent system questions.

So far so good. Starting to get new root growth but very little at all. Water quality is noticeably better than yesterday in both clarity and smell.

It could go bad at any second though.

I think alot of your problems may have come from the molasses and stuff.
I just fill it up with water, nutes and always always Hydroguard and Orca at 2ml/gal. That shit has done me right. I would never go without it even with a chiller.
I would flush your system real good to try and get it clean with the plants still in it. Just use water unless you can take out the plants.
Just use your nute schedule, Hydroguard and Orca. Hell up it to 4ml/gal. Turn your chiller down to 66.
Just keep it simple as that and give it a couple weeks. No molasses, bio balls or anything else. Add the HG and Orca every week or with your top ups. Unless you change each week then just add it with your change.

I may be rambling, but I think Hydroguard and Orca, stuff like that may be more refined. The Southern AG stuff, I mean they use it on lawns. Not that it is good, but what is the quality tolerance between a lawn care product and a hydro specific product. The fact that HG is nearly colorless and odorless may back up that claim.
A gallon of Hydroguard is 50 bucks. Cheap insurance compared to your time and energy put into the grow.
Dunno, just saying. I tend to ramble sometimes. That is what has worked for me so far.

Boom. Those roots were in 75-80 degree water for a month before I got the chiller.

With Orca and HG***

I'm telling you man, run nothing but ro, cal mag and gh three part, at 66* and never change the water, just adding 15 gallons every 3 days, smells clean and fresh as can be. If you REALLY wanna save a buck, don't worry about the bennies. You don't need them. Cold water is what's keeping your res fresh. I promise.

Airwalker16 said:

I'm telling you man, run nothing but ro, cal mag and gh three part, at 66* and never change the water, just adding 15 gallons every 3 days, smells clean and fresh as can be. If you REALLY wanna save a buck, don't worry about the bennies. You don't need them. Cold water is what's keeping your res fresh. I promise.

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Lol,this is spot on

Airwalker16 said:

I'm telling you man, run nothing but ro, cal mag and gh three part, at 66* and never change the water, just adding 15 gallons every 3 days, smells clean and fresh as can be. If you REALLY wanna save a buck, don't worry about the bennies. You don't need them. Cold water is what's keeping your res fresh. I promise.

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This is what I did the second grow and what I'm doing now except I don't pay for water in my nutes and I dont use "hydroguard".

So I dont want to come off defensive as I often tend to so I'll just be honest.

I've done basically everything that has been stated and I know most of that advice already. I know it drives certain people, Heisen, nuts but just because someone knows the right thing doesn't mean they always chose it. I've always been someone who has to experience things to prove them to myself even if it means failing. Isn't this how true knowledge is obtained?

Can compost tea work in hydro, ofcourse, it's done all the time outside of the cannabis industry. Can I pull it off with my off green thumb, I highly doubt it's validity as a choice for myself!

As for now the problems that I'm dealing with are still having clones from flowering mothers and they went from dirt to hydro. I've read lately that going from dirt to hydro can be difficult but I'm sure it's easy for others. It seems these types af clones can have a hard time rooting which makes complete sense. This is one of the reasons in the first place that I tried compost tea. I had read that it can help promote rooting in plants, which i needed. A couple of the plants just put out a 5 finger leaf but others are still throwing singles. Not to mention there's still trichomes on some of the clones new leaves.

The above aren't excuses just an honest representation of the issues and steps taken during the process. Were some steps bad, hell yeah but I know it was a gamble at best in the first place.

The best thing to do right now would be to toss these clones. Then do a deep clean on the system. Then find some new clones that aren't from flowering mothers. Lastly stick to water/nutes/hydro but. If I can get these clones to work in the next couple weeks then the harvest should be awesome. If I start over I'll just end up in the same place I am now. The question remains will the clones recover in time to justify any further waste of time and effort.


That's just an honest representation of my thinking process.

Do you guys pay attention to vpd or do you just have heat and humidity settings you stick to?

I ask because vpd settings appear to be ripe for mold growth. It seems as though if your running 75 degrees than you should be running about 70% humidity.

Anyone run into issues running humidity that high in veg?

I switched to GFF last year-same dilution 20:1 and 2ml/gal from Hydroguard. Absolutely no issues with roots, run was very simple even with 80+ room temps.

What I'm wondering is if I only need to add the "hydro", gff, once at the clean out or because I'm treating an active infestation do I need to add more on a regular basis?

My understanding is that beneficials like Hydroguard/GFF need to 'outgrow' harmful critters to do their job. That means that it's vital to maintain enough good bugs to fend off the bad ones.

Keep in mind because you live in a such a mold prone environment you may be prone to this type of thing.
Whatever shit is floating around in your air is getting pumped straight into your buckets.
Every 5-7 days I would add the recommended dosage. Also, consider Orca, by Great White. It is the same thing as HG but more strains of bacteria.
In addition to the same bacteria HG has in it, Orca also has several other types of beneficial bacterica.
One example would be Bacillius Thurinegensis and I have no idea if I spelled it right.
This bacteria attacks larvae such as mosquito, fungus gnat, drain fly ect in your water. It is a biological insecticide just for that.
They sell that specific bacteria and similar strains in different products such as Mosquito Dunks.
What I am saying is learn what your bacteria are doing for you, and in turn you will learn how to effectively use them.
Just FYI

I never considered my environment in terms of bacteria introduction through air. I live in a very mold prone area, heavy fog not to mention drastic temp changes.

I was going to do waterfalls instead of bubbles but decided not to but now thinking it may be the correct choice.

shawnery said:

I never considered my environment in terms of bacteria introduction through air. I live in a very mold prone area, heavy fog not to mention drastic temp changes.

I was going to do waterfalls instead of bubbles but decided not to but now thinking it may be the correct choice.

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It's a nice way.

I ditched my airstones and pump for waterfalls in my UC setup.

Everyone kept talking me out of it and I allowed it to effect my choice. I'm sure the stones are fine but there are a few reasons to remove them. First off, from my understanding, air stones are the least efficient way to increase DO and waterfalls are the most efficient. I found a side by side study with different ways of increasing DO in varying temperatures and these were the two I remember.

I'm thinking I'll run a sub pump in my epi and run a 1/2" tube to the top corner of each tote. I'm currently running a 1/2" 6 way outlet in the epi forming low pressure fountains. Since I'm running low and wide totes I dont need to worry about the roots blocking them later.

shawnery said:

Everyone kept talking me out of it and I allowed it to effect my choice. I'm sure the stones are fine but there are a few reasons to remove them. First off, from my understanding, air stones are the least efficient way to increase DO and waterfalls are the most efficient. I found a side by side study with different ways of increasing DO in varying temperatures and these were the two I remember.

I'm thinking I'll run a sub pump in my epi and run a 1/2" tube to the top corner of each tote. I'm currently running a 1/2" 6 way outlet in the epi forming low pressure fountains. Since I'm running low and wide totes I dont need to worry about the roots blocking them later.

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Actually, use a 3/4" manifold and then tee off to each bucket with 1/2". You need a bigger space that fills before the waterfalls so that there's equal pressure going to each run.

Airwalker16 said:

Actually, use a 3/4" manifold and then tee off to each bucket with 1/2". You need a bigger space that fills before the waterfalls so that there's equal pressure going to each run.

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Initially I was going to take my 1" out line from the 1000gph to an 8 way 1/2" manifold that would then feed the waterfalls in each bucket. I was also concerned that this would lower the current to an unacceptable range.

So what I ended up doing with the pvc was creating a 5 way 1/2" manifold. I connected the manifold to the 1" output line from the water pump. Placed this upside down in the epi center which created 5 low pressure 360 degree cascading fountains.

I have to assume that this fountain manifold system I'm using is adding massive amounts of DO in the system.

On a side note,
I've also realized that my 50 micron inline filter is doing a great job of collecting any bad bacteria which I've started cleaning out every fee days. The great thing is that since doing this and adding GFF, hydroguard replacement, there is less bacteria during each cleaning.

What I ended up doing and I "assume" it will be enough surface agitation from some non-cannabis growing hydro runs. I'm using a sub pump in the epi which connects to 1/2" and the to 1/4" line. I tried this at first but thought I needed more agitation so I added 90 degree sprayers to the end. Now I'm getting a nice mid-pressure fan of water instead of just low pressure drop.

From the research outside of the cannabis field most home growers with very positive results are using nothing more than 1/4" tubing with a slight drop into the epi to aerate the entire grow let alone one in each bucket.

I'm also thinking that perhaps the lack of current created by the air bubbles will he a positive thing for the roots. First of all instead of ended up with a tangled mess of roots you'll end up with nice open root systems. This would then lessen the issue I've read about in terms of oxygenating the center of the root mass. Secondly your adding a great deal of non-oxygen to the atmosphere inside the totes. Thirdly I'm wondering if all that hot air is damaging to the roots in the water and out.

I'll know in a couple days if it works out or not