Lights Research, HEADACHE and FRUSTRATION

Hey guys some of you may have seen my previous posts about my grow initiative. Basically I am setting up a 16'x8'x7' tent with the actual grow space in the tent to be 16'x4'x7 (or 16'x5'x7', depends on lights).
I've been doing a lot of reading about lights in the past two weeks, but still can't decide which way to go .
Here is my criteria:
1. I want a simple set up without ballasts, duct pipes, heat, and too much electricity draw.
2. At the same time I want a quality product, which is my understanding LEDs (UV, light spectrum, etc) are best for.
3. Use the same light/lamp for veg and for flowering
4. I don't want to sacrifice the yield per plant. I understand that I can grow with shitty cheap LEDs, but I don't want shitty outcome, I want a comparable to MH or HIDs outcome (or slightly less).
5. Being a new grower, I am not sure I am ready to build my own lights, so not sure its an option.

I came up with the list below for a comparison (It would not allow me to post a table).

Brand/Model/Watts/Power Use/Foot Print/Diodes/Warranty/Price

Kind LED/K5 /1000 /650/ 5x5 /3w and 5w /3 /$1,700.00
Adavanced/XML/ 650 /618 /5x5 /10w amd 3w/ 3/ $1,600.00
JOHNSON GROW / CX16 /1000/ 715/ 5x5/ CREE CXA2540/ 3/ $1,250.00
Kind/ K5 /750/ 430/ 4x4/ 3w and 5w/ 3/ $1,245.00
Amare /SE /450/ 450/ 4x4/ 6 CXB3070 &CREE XP-G2/XP-E2 LEDs/ 5/ $1,145.00
DormGrow / G8 / 900 /540 / 6x4 / 3w /Warranty??/$1,060.00
DormGrow /G8 /600/ 390/ 4x4 /3w / Warranty? /$800.00
CALIFORNIA LIGHTWORKS SOLARSYSTEM /550 /550 /400/ 3x4/ Osram LED/ 5/ $800.00
Sun System/ LEC 630/ 630/ 630/ 4x4/ LEC/ 1/ $747.00
Sun System /.LEC 315/ 315/ 315/ 3x3/ LEC/ 1/ $454.00

Based on the data above - ASSUMING its true I came up with the "table" of how many lights I would need for my set up:
Brand /Lights I need / My Total
Kind / 3 / $5100
Kind /4 / $4980
Adavanced LED/ 3 / $4800
Amare /4 / $4580
CALIFORNIA LIGHTWORKS/ 5/ $4000
JOHNSON GROW LIGHTS / 3 / $3750
DormGrow /4 / $3200
DormGrow /3 / $3180
Sun System LEC 630/ 4 / 2988
Sun System LEC315/ 6 / 2724

1. Based on the data alone, the 6 SunSystem LEC 315 comes out to be least expensive option. From the reading on it, its a descent light which is good for both veg and flowering and has plenty of UV.
2. Cheapest LED options looks to be DormGrow 3, however, I have no idea how good or bad these lights are and information that I found on various forums is all over the place. Plus, I think it requires additional red light for flowering.
3. From the most reputable and expensive lights, the best $$$ case is California Lightworks or Amare. However, based on the wattage alone these lights are more expensive and yet only provide half the W that DormGrow or Johnson Grow (don't know anything about Johnson lights).

What do you guys think? Please chime in if you have personal experience with one or another light. Based on first hand experience from another forum member I have dismissed Patinum Lights ,because they are claiming much more power and foot print to their lights then they really are. Hence, please post if you dealt with one or another light, if you can agree or disagree with the manufacture claims of the light foot print, light specter, etc.


Did I just opened an ugly can of worms?

Thank you!

I've grown with 3w diode LED's they suck in flowering compared to the Sun Systems or almost any COB-based lights. Currently I'm running both Sun Systems 315's and 3590 based Tasty LED COBs. I'd recommend going with the Sun Systems 315's out of anything you've listed. Only other recommendation if you can swing it would be to either build or buy 3590 based COBs, after a few runs they're even outdoing the 315's in both quality/terp production and yields. The 3590's are also lower heat than the Sun Systems.

With the Sun Systems and multiple units I'd stick with multiple 315's vs. 630's, the bleeding between the 315's gives you better coverage when combined.

Thank you GroErr for your input.
What is the reason for you to run both SunSystem 315s and Tasty LED COBs? Am I reading it correctly that you are getting better results from Tasty LED COB than from SS 315? If that is the case I think I will go with that system down the road, because I need at least 8 lights which are over 5k. Unless the harvest result is twice from the Tasty LED vs SunSystems, it does not make sense to buy them outright.

SFBayArea said:

Thank you GroErr for your input.
What is the reason for you to run both SunSystem 315s and Tasty LED COBs? Am I reading it correctly that you are getting better results from Tasty LED COB than from SS 315? If that is the case I think I will go with that system down the road, because I need at least 8 lights which are over 5k. Unless the harvest result is twice from the Tasty LED vs SunSystems, it does not make sense to buy them outright.

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I went from diode panels to the Sun System about 2 1/2 years ago, at the time it was better than anything out there in that price range. I have some 3070 COBs and they do well but the Sun System produces more and better quality imo. Then recently I'd been seeing some nice results with 3590's so thought I'd give them a try. Very pleased with the performance and take the quality up a notch again. More expensive up-front, longer payback, no bulb replacement, less heat. If you have the cash and DIY you could get close to the Sun Systems in price. You can't go wrong with either, different techs but imo they're both best in their respective class right now.

I went through the same frustration about choosing new lights.

https://www.rollitup.org/t/club-315w-lec.904624/page-44#post-13046682

I like my 315cmh and the reason I chose the 315cmh over my old set up of 3 x 1000hps was heat and the 3100K bulb did amazing in veg and and flower as well as the life of the bulb is 3 years which I can not yet confirm or deny.
I would change my Hortilux 1000hps bulbs once a year(75$ at my local store) so the even if i only get 2 years out of the cmh bulb I am still ahead over the initial cost of the set up.

I went with the phantom because It has a remote ballast and heat was a concern.

I will add that I feel my 1000hps penetrated the canopy better but not by a lot and my present grow is much smaller than yours. In my experience I feel the 315cmh seems like a 600hps. I say that because of other set ups with 600hps and my own 1000hps. Mind you my 1000hps were old ballasts and not DE Gavitas which I have seen kick ass.

Also I like the vertical 315cmh vs the horizontal dual 630cmh. My light looks like its a July summer day at 1:00pm in the afternoon!!!!

Also I just looked it up on Hydrofarm but the warranty on the ballast is 3 years which seems respectable if they honor it. I bought mine from a local store and they have always been fair with me.

Just my .02

Good luck

Thank you guys for your input. It looks like for the way I want the set up to happen, I need either make my own 3590 LED or go with Sun System.
Appreciate all your answers!!!!

GroErr said:

I went from diode panels to the Sun System about 2 1/2 years ago, at the time it was better than anything out there in that price range. I have some 3070 COBs and they do well but the Sun System produces more and better quality imo. Then recently I'd been seeing some nice results with 3590's so thought I'd give them a try. Very pleased with the performance and take the quality up a notch again. More expensive up-front, longer payback, no bulb replacement, less heat. If you have the cash and DIY you could get close to the Sun Systems in price. You can't go wrong with either, different techs but imo they're both best in their respective class right now.

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Are your 315s outproducing the 3590s for you, in just terms of weight?

Gquebed said:

Are your 315s outproducing the 3590s for you, in just terms of weight?

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I was going to ask the same question I said myself then I am loosing my time reading about cobs and maybe building them when they are something better and cheaper.

Gquebed said:

Are your 315s outproducing the 3590s for you, in just terms of weight?

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Difficult to say across the board but the last run the Blue Ripper indi-dom pheno I've run under both produced more per gallon of medium than it's ever produced, like 20% more. They're close but I think the COBs may have an edge watt-for-watt, would need to do a side by side with same clones for proper testing. I can attest to the terp/loudness though, it's clearly better under the COBs, that to me is more important than weight even if they both output the same yields I'd favour the 3590's for quality.

GroErr said:

Difficult to say across the board but the last run the Blue Ripper indi-dom pheno I've run under both produced more per gallon of medium than it's ever produced, like 20% more. They're close but I think the COBs may have an edge watt-for-watt, would need to do a side by side with same clones for proper testing. I can attest to the terp/loudness though, it's clearly better under the COBs, that to me is more important than weight even if they both output the same yields I'd favour the 3590's for quality.

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Just curious.

Got my Tastys today... pretty excited about hanging them tonight!

Gquebed said:

Just curious.

Got my Tastys today... pretty excited about hanging them tonight!

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Nice! Just ordered another 2x T2-1400's myself, that'll give me 600w total which can cover my whole room if needed. I like the flexibility of multiple bars, you can turn them on/off as needed if running perpetual runs.

GroErr said:

Nice! Just ordered another 2x T2-1400's myself, that'll give me 600w total which can cover my whole room if needed. I like the flexibility of multiple bars, you can turn them on/off as needed if running perpetual runs.

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Exactly!

My only regret is that i just changed strains to romulan, but i fear that what i have is not that at all. Its not the romulan i recall anyway. It is obviously a sativa dom. Anyway, without knowing what strain i have here i wont be able to guage a difference between hps and the 3590s at all. So i guess this run is a mystery run on two counts now. Lol

Gquebed said:

Exactly!

My only regret is that i just changed strains to romulan, but i fear that what i have is not that at all. Its not the romulan i recall anyway. It is obviously a sativa dom. Anyway, without knowing what strain i have here i wont be able to guage a difference between hps and the 3590s at all. So i guess this run is a mystery run on two counts now. Lol

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Lol, genetics can vary so much but either way I don't think you'll be disappointed once you get a run or two under them. I wasn't expecting them to blow up my buds like they did, a nice surprise...

@SFBayArea
PLC http://www.pacificlightconcepts.com/product-category/lights/

Thank you Verticalgrow.
GroErr and Gquebed, what do you use for the housing of the Timber lights? Do you have any pictures or description how you set up Timber lights?

SFBayArea said:

Thank you Verticalgrow.
GroErr and Gquebed, what do you use for the housing of the Timber lights? Do you have any pictures or description how you set up Timber lights?

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Both Gquebed and I have the Tasty LED fixtures, I went with the 1.4A drivers so the Tx-1400 series. Those are pre-built lights, I just don't have the time space or tools to be doing DIY.

There's a good thread for ideas on frames and designs if you go the DIY route.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/pictures-of-your-diy-lights-post-your-pics.871625/

Thanks GroErr. According to the Tasty site, you need two of their units to achieve 4x4 footprint, am I reading it correctly?

Yes, If going with Tasty for a 4x4 you want (2) T4/T3 units. I prefer the 4 COB setup myself............

SFBayArea said:

Thanks GroErr. According to the Tasty site, you need two of their units to achieve 4x4 footprint, am I reading it correctly?

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Agree with Evil for a 4x4 area, using 3 of the T2's which is 100w per bar, I can cover off 3x4' well but would be stretching it to cover off 4x4'. In that case I'd go the 2x T3-2100 units or even 2x T4-2100's. Another nice option for bars was posted above by @verticalgrow, 2x of their CXP-250 bars would cover a 4x4 really well.

When I wanted a couple more of the Tasty bars last week the site showed no stock so I sent a PM to @Rahz on here and he had them built in a few days for me.

Ok, it seems that with Tasty T42100 I need two of them to cover 4x4 area. Which means I will need 8 of them to cover 16x4 area and that comes up to $5360.
With CXP-250, again I would need 8 to cover 16x8 area, which comes to $4600, a less expensive version, but still way more expensive then Sun System 650 (of which I would need 4 to cover 16x - 3k.
Is the quality of the buds that much better with COB LEDs then Sun System?