Libertarian overture

medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Why I love libertarians.Libertarianism is not thought of well in the minds of the public. Among the notably small percentage of them that have even heard of it (that is, heard enough to form an opinion on it), a prevailing view among them is it’s basically a quasi-anarchist, uber-capitalist homily to Ayn Rand.
Sadly, listening to most of libertarianism’s public representatives, that's often all it is. Mainstream libertarianism (if such a thing even exists) seems to be unfortunately obsessed with pursuing impossible levels of renegade liberty and anarcho-capitalism.
Get government out of your life, now! End tax slavery! Privatize the FBI! Abolish all welfare! America should abandon the UN! Does it sound familiar? Such absurdities are sputtered by libertarianism’s pathetically-few public voices, from the fringe-dwelling Libertarian Party to various writers and commentators. Their anarchic fantasies have unfortunately been etched into the public perception of what constitutes “libertarianism,” which, as we’ll show, is due substantially to years of extremist advocacy by those who spent their formative political years being weaned on the exhortations of Ayn Rand. Am I being subjective, you bet!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
So, any clue left for us who would like to read more of this author? Nope, none. How about providing a link, Med?

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
Would you like one of us to teach you how to post a link, Med?

Vi
Click to expand...
Hey I asked you this a month ago, no response, I Learned on my own and have been posting as I see fit. I may wish to post one or not, I've for got where I got this Info, so I guess it's out!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Just left-click on the link, then right-click "copy." Then to apply the link, right-click again and hit "paste."

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
Yeah I knew about that, I just didn,t know about the goggle image thing on the page that you have to click before it accepts links. Now I do, but sometimes I forget, senility setting in I suppose.. Heres the good thing about senility, you can't remember who you've fucked over so everyone's your friend!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Heres the good thing about senility, you can't remember who you've fucked over so everyone's your friend!

I can see why you would consider that to be a major benefit, Med.

Vi

PS: Sorry, I couldn't resist. *lol*
 
Wavels

Wavels

Well-Known Member
Med, once again you attribute the worst possible motives relating to or inspiring a libertarian leaning agenda or tendency, so as to appear as self parody.
The Libertarians do not want a Wild West, kill or be killed, survival of the fittest system installed to empower the greedy as you caricature so lamely and gleefully! I have lost count of the threads you have initiated which deal with Libertarian philosophy largely through a flippant sensibility unwilling to discuss the true and verifiable advantages of freedom on human existence!
“Guard rails” must be in place on any system of human political organization under a common philosophy.
Purity must be tempered with reality, in order to enhance political harmony!
A shift to more freedoms can only benefit the majority of citizens.
:joint::mrgreen:
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
A shift to more freedoms can only benefit the majority of citizens.
:joint::mrgreen: On this I agree completely. More freedom is a good thing. Where we differ is on taxation. The gist of what I see from you libertarians is no frickin taxes. I believe in the more you have the more you pay to balance out the bottom. You believe in repealing the income tax and relying on some lame excise tax to fund the government when you know damn well it won't, not your concern whether poor people eat or have shelter, If they would have just worked harder and gone to finishing school like rich people, they wouldn't have that poor thing goin on. I don't think you have the concept of poor and uneducated. Most times it's not their fault but the fault of a society that gave up on them long ago! Every once in a while, maybe one in a million, a ghetto kid pulls himself up and out, but more than not end up in jail or dead. And it just isn't stopping at the Ghetto nowdays, middle class people see their dreams being gobbled up by rising costs, and a child of middle class has not a chance of acquiring what his parents have acquired in his lifetime. The American dream is dead. Tell me how a young person starting out can afford a home with prices starting at 300,000 for a crapbox-to 500,000+++ for a used tract home! I know, they have interest only loans, but those are a sure way to lose your money and home and screw up your credit. Someone who is halfway intelligent tell me how a middle class 25,000-40,000 a year person can afford a 3-5 hundred K house, and raise a family.
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
First of all, Med ... being a Libertarian isn't all about taxes. For the most part, we Libertarians want the federal government out of our lives to the extent allowed by the Constitution. Excise taxes, duties and tariffs will cover the rest. Any "welfare," as you would define it, should come from the states, if not the county and city governments.

In spite of your insistance, the American Dream is NOT lost. There are plenty of opportunities out there for those who want to work hard and be creative. More government handouts is not the answer.

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
In spite of your insistance, the American Dream is NOT lost. There are plenty of opportunities out there for those who want to work hard and be creative. More government handouts is not the answer.

Vi You are talking about upper middle class (125,000-500,000) range, the ones that can afford to send their kids to college, the people making less are too busy just trying to stay alive and keep clothes on their kids back and a roof over their heads. I take it it has been a while since you lived in that realm, if ever. The dream is lost because the dream has always been to grow up, get a decent job, raise a family and own a home. The own a home thing (for what ever reason you want to ascribe to it), is dead.. either you go with a interest only loan (very stupid in my opinion) and a balloon payment, like your aunt tilley is going to die and leave you a bundle or you face the prospect of renting for life. Yeah they have cheap housing in Kansas, but no Jobs. so in essence, the Dream is dead! Christ my 36 year old 3 bedroom tract house goes for 350,000+++. If I had to buy it now, I couldn't afford it!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Med ...

Being poor is NOT static. I know plenty of people who had meager beginnings, a high school education and a lack of social skills who made it VERY well. Because of their early struggles, they really appreciate where they are in life at this point ... and are very generous with their money as well. We do not have a class system in this country, in spite of what the ultra-left would like.

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
Med ...

Being poor is NOT static. I know plenty of people who had meager beginnings, a high school education and a lack of social skills who made it VERY well. Because of their early struggles, they really appreciate where they are in life at this point ... and are very generous with their money as well. We do not have a class system in this country, in spite of what the ultra-left would like.

Vi
Click to expand...
WELL THEY'RE SURE WORKING ON HAVING ONE! (they are the Elites)
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
medicineman said:
WELL THEY'RE SURE WORKING ON HAVING ONE! (they are the Elites)
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Who is it that is dividing us into classes, or at least making a determined attempt to do so? Who's trying to divide us by income, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, Med? The answer is, the party you voted for in the last election.

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
Who is it that is dividing us into classes, or at least making a determined attempt to do so? Who's trying to divide us by income, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, Med? The answer is, the party you voted for in the last election.

Vi
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Whoa now, your gettin rambunctious, we could argue this for days!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
medicineman said:
"Whoa now, your gettin rambunctious, we could argue this for days!"
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*lol* ... Nice try, Med. In sales, we call that a "sidestep." Here's the post for you to respond to:

"Who is it that is dividing us into classes, or at least making a determined attempt to do so? Who's trying to divide us by income, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, Med? The answer is, the party you voted for in the last election."

Vi
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
*lol* ... Nice try, Med. In sales, we call that a "sidestep." Here's the post for you to respond to:

"Who is it that is dividing us into classes, or at least making a determined attempt to do so? Who's trying to divide us by income, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, Med? The answer is, the party you voted for in the last election."

Vi
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I believe you are wrong. This subject is so subjective, we could be arguing for months as I believe it is the Republican party that caused the great divide. I don't know where to get this information as it really has not been that debated, but this country has never been so polarized since I've been alive. Maybe the Viet Nam war approached this territory, but the war mongering republicans have split this country in two.
 
medicineman

medicineman

New Member
ViRedd said:
*lol* ... Nice try, Med. In sales, we call that a "sidestep." Here's the post for you to respond to:

"Who is it that is dividing us into classes, or at least making a determined attempt to do so? Who's trying to divide us by income, gender, race, sexual orientation and religion, Med? The answer is, the party you voted for in the last election." Hogwash

Vi
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How do you know who I voted for anyway
National security attitudes also generally unite the Democrats. Beyond their staunch opposition to the war in Iraq, Democrats overwhelmingly believe that effective diplomacy, rather than military strength, should serve as the basis for U.S. security policy. At home, Democrats remain committed to a strong social safety net and are joined in opposition to most domestic policy proposals from the Bush administration, from tougher bankruptcy laws to private accounts in Social Security. Here is an example of uniting, not dividing. As far as proving that the Democrats unite more than they divide, I believe that is a personal opinion and Mine is: the republicans are the dividers!
 
ViRedd

ViRedd

New Member
Well, to answer your above statement, what party has been in power when we have gone to war?

1. Civil War ... Lincoln, a Republican.

2. Mexican-American War ... Polk, a Democrat.

3. Spanish-American War ... McKinley, a Republican.

4. First World War ... Wilson, a Democrat.

5. Second World War ... Roosevelt a Democrat.

6. Korea ... Truman, a Democrat.

8. Vietnam ... Kennedy, a Democrat.

So, it looks as though the Dems have the leg-up on war mongering.

Vi
 
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