LED's cause bud to take in Mg and Ca differently???

"LEDs change the internal workings of the plant which some people struggle with ie magnesium and calcium uptake increases. So once people adjust their feeding it will explode in popularity."

I don't even remember who wrote this, I was just hoping someone can direct me to some science if this is even true.

I don't use LED, I would try them if the price was not so high.

I currently veg under T5 HO 216 watt and I flower under a 400 watt HPS w 2 95 watt T5HO side lights.
Bless,
DZ

i noticed a sulfur deficiency happening when I switched to LEDs. I have epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) so it's easy to correct, I was already giving them some epsom, but under LEDs they really demanded it, otherwise new growth was turning yellow quickly.

Im having pk deficiencies under one of two leds i have running, theres a thread about it from yesterday

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Calcium and Magnesium are the most utilized and required micro nutrient and some botanist consider them macro nutrients. Short answer, due to the abundance of red and blue light from leds chlorophyll a and b are the primary pigments used to force the electron jump required to produce energy from light, air and water. Chlorophyll a and b need calcium and magnesium in abundance in order to make this happen if they are the only pigments being used. Normal round light provides the wavelengths needed to put cartenoids, phycoerythrin, and phycocyanin (there are more pigments but I'm not going to look them up right now) to use inside of the leaf in order to produce the electron jump to create energy. Therefore when using round light you will have a normal requirement for calmag, but if you only focus your nm toward the chlorophyll spectra you will need additional calmag in order for your plant to replenish depleted chloroplasts in the leaves. This is just a general over view. If you want more info do some research into chloroplasts and chlorophyll. The internet is a wonderful place if you know where to look. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorophyll#Chemical_structure You will notice that each molecule of chlorophyll needs mg.

Often in the modern era of leds you will see most manufacturers putting in a few 4,000k - 10,000k diodes into their light for safe measure, if not just going with an all 4500k/ 660nm spectra blend of leds. Not all breeds of cannabis have the same requirements for light, nutrients, and water. It's best to study your plants and play it out on a case by case basis. I hope this helps.

Sincerely,
ILovePlants

Calmag's a must here.

Lately I have been running 10-12 different varieties each cycle and they all get treated exactly the same so I can see which ones are the misbehavers. The vast majority do just fine in recycled organic soil. For those that do misbehave, they just lose a few areas on fan leaves and it does not affect the end result, the buds and yield come out just fine so have no worries. It is very hard to troubleshoot so if you try to flush them or water in epsom etc, I would consider the possibility you could do more harm than good.

I always water-in blackstrap molasses anyway which does contain calmag and a big dose of K. Also you could water in some EWC tea.

Please stop saying "calmag"... That term drives me nuts. There's no such thing as "calmag" other than labels. The OP correctly started off by listing Mg and Ca individually.

Mg and Ca antagonize each other. Adding calcium will cause magnesium deficiency. You need the correct ratio of Ca:Mg, not a product called "calmag"....

"Some botanists consider them macro nutrients"

Anyone who thinks calcium is a micro nutrient knows nothing about plant nutrition. There are no botanists who consider calcium a micro. It is needed in abundant quantities.

You may be right about the sulfur. For a few years, I've heard of LED growers complaining of "light bleaching", and I've heard some say they had iron deficiency.

If the problem is solved with magnesium sulfate, it's very posible the problem is actually sulfur deficiency rather than magnesium deficiency.

AirAnt said:

i noticed a sulfur deficiency happening when I switched to LEDs. I have epsom salt (magnesium sulfate) so it's easy to correct, I was already giving them some epsom, but under LEDs they really demanded it, otherwise new growth was turning yellow quickly.

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churchhaze said:

You may be right about the sulfur. For a few years, I've heard of LED growers complaining of "light bleaching", and I've heard some say they had iron deficiency.

If the problem is solved with magnesium sulfate, it's very posible the problem is actually sulfur deficiency rather than magnesium deficiency.

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I can't say for certain because I noticed the problem as soon as I switched to 12 hours of dark so there was some natural stretching. I do tend to believe it was sulfur deficiency because I boosted the epsoms and it went away.

Half my plants were sick from overwatering, so I was feeding them all just pure water, which ended up making the ones that weren't sick, sick. doh.

Got to be very tough to cater to 20 plus varieties of buds!
I can barely grow 1 well after a years practice.
I have learned many things in the past year.

Thanks for the science lesson "Iloveplants"!

@churchhaze you are right on.

it is like Kleenex and tissues, brand recognition stronger than product recognition.
The science behind growing is fascinating to me.

Bless,
DZ

Soil grower in a microcab - I struggled when switching to LED from PLL fluro. Big difficiency, massive yellowing on top. Mg and S the culprits - Epsom salts to the rescue.

I previously had a mild chronic (ongoing) deficiency that meant my plants limped along, but it became an acute deficiency under LEDs in that without immediate treatment the plant would have perished.

The best long term solution for soil growers is to improve overall soil quality. Epsom salts are supposed to be tough on the microherd - but better to belt the microbes than let the plant die! To avoid having to fortify plant with salts I've introduced a lot of good compost into my mix. So far so good, but I am leery about the ability of compost to work well long term in my small pots.

What are some good easy organic amendments?

Organic chicken manure is the majority of my fertilizer. And like you said lots of compost/EWC in the mix, as much as you can make.

churchhaze said:

Please stop saying "calmag"... That term drives me nuts. There's no such thing as "calmag" other than labels.

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My plants love 'em!

Ca and Mg are 2 separate elements.

PetFlora said:

To say that leds cause a Ca Mg deficiency is ignorant

It's the Blue Red dominant led panels that are the culprit

When using panel that is at least 20% 5000-6500K I have zero deficiencies

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Wow... Calcium! I think I understand why tomatoes need more Calcium than Santa Maria-Giovanna, now.
Magnesium will make the soil "sticky" if excessive (since it is in the same family period as Sodium). Calcium keeps the soil "fluffy". Calcium aids in Phosphorous transport and keeps the roots healthy.

Great thread topic. I'm glad I stopped by!

smokey the cat said:

What are some good easy organic amendments?

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Kelp for Mg and Oyster Shell Flour for Ca......Coco water for both.


I experienced some severe nute uptake after I switched to flowering with LED's initially. I would have them healthy green and they wouldn't quite respond. Too anectdotal, gets out of hand quickly..........so I am not ready to refer to it as a phenomena just yet.

Too many controls to eliminate first. To get to the conclusion that spectrum nm alone is responsible. I have had other runs that haven't been problematic. So already one could assume lineage as one variable, but again very anecdotal and could spin off the thought tracks easily in one of these discussions.

Not all botanists agree that CA is easily uptake-able or that it is a macro nutrient either.

Calcium was a central concept to Albrecht, W. but not everyone agrees here.....

Thank you all for contributing!

I think I got lucky asking a relevant question and getting some good intelligent responses.
Bless,
P.S.
This started as a quote from some other poster,
I just don't remember to give them credit.
DZ

heckler73 said:

Wow... Calcium! I think I understand why tomatoes need more Calcium than Santa Maria-Giovanna, now.
Magnesium will make the soil "sticky" if excessive (since it is in the same family period as Sodium). Calcium keeps the soil "fluffy". Calcium aids in Phosphorous transport and keeps the roots healthy.

Great thread topic. I'm glad I stopped by!

Click to expand...

Thanks I love YouTube tutorials!
Bless,
DZ