LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow
- Thread starter pr0fesseur
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polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
the needed time to get full effect from UV light is 3-4 hours a day, at what would be considered mid day, there is no thing as too much time under UV, unless its some really intense shit, like x2 MV bulbs 160w over a 2x2 area for all 12 hours. i would run my UV close to the full amount of time the lights are on to get full effect, stunting will be minimal if you keep the UV levels fairly low.
@PETFLORA well in pretty much in the same sit. i got a 3x5 om gonna do x2 arcadia t5ho soon or x2 100w MV or x1 160w MV.
after much research on commercial MV and MH bulbs as a source of UV, the conclusion is they are useless with out proper "FILTER" glass known as hard glass or specially designed borosilicate glass(much $) to filter the UV from the bulbs. without these types of glass, the UV from a commercial bulb would be dangerous levels of UV and was the source of problems with ZOO lamps external ballasted MH reptile bulb.
also did you guys know there are some amazing multivapor bulbs out there? they have combined HID and florescent in one bulb, increased lumens and CRI, im thinking about trying one out.
@PETFLORA well in pretty much in the same sit. i got a 3x5 om gonna do x2 arcadia t5ho soon or x2 100w MV or x1 160w MV.
after much research on commercial MV and MH bulbs as a source of UV, the conclusion is they are useless with out proper "FILTER" glass known as hard glass or specially designed borosilicate glass(much $) to filter the UV from the bulbs. without these types of glass, the UV from a commercial bulb would be dangerous levels of UV and was the source of problems with ZOO lamps external ballasted MH reptile bulb.
also did you guys know there are some amazing multivapor bulbs out there? they have combined HID and florescent in one bulb, increased lumens and CRI, im thinking about trying one out.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I am having an issue with my T5- the tombstone that the bulb electrodes slot into (looks like an upside-down miniature tombstone) melted the green plastic locking ring which caused the bulb to fall out. Fortunately it did not break or damage any plants. I have a call into Quantum now, but they are not yet open.
Also, following PSUAGROs lead, I decided to swap out my CWS for AquaSuns-- for now. Will probably go back to the CWs in late flower
EDIT 1:40: Called Quantum at 11 am, spoke with tech. The tombstone melted enough to be unusable. Tech told me the cause was ARCHING due to the arms being too wide. When they are too wide you get minimal contact between bulb electrodes and tombstones. You account for this by adjusting a small 1/2' X 1.5" strap, located under the reflectors, directly above the spine (holds the ballasts). The strap holds the 2 arms in place.
He had me drill the strap holes larger so I could squeeze the arms closer. While there i took out the bad tombstone, which was closest to the spine and swapped it with a good one from the end. Now I have 6 bulbs adjacent. 2.5 hours later all is well, but will have to take it down and apart again when I get the replacement tombstone. Had I bought 2 @ 4 bulb all I would need to do is spin one fixture 180 degrees to match up 6 bulbs.
Job done!
Also, following PSUAGROs lead, I decided to swap out my CWS for AquaSuns-- for now. Will probably go back to the CWs in late flower
EDIT 1:40: Called Quantum at 11 am, spoke with tech. The tombstone melted enough to be unusable. Tech told me the cause was ARCHING due to the arms being too wide. When they are too wide you get minimal contact between bulb electrodes and tombstones. You account for this by adjusting a small 1/2' X 1.5" strap, located under the reflectors, directly above the spine (holds the ballasts). The strap holds the 2 arms in place.
He had me drill the strap holes larger so I could squeeze the arms closer. While there i took out the bad tombstone, which was closest to the spine and swapped it with a good one from the end. Now I have 6 bulbs adjacent. 2.5 hours later all is well, but will have to take it down and apart again when I get the replacement tombstone. Had I bought 2 @ 4 bulb all I would need to do is spin one fixture 180 degrees to match up 6 bulbs.
Job done!
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
If only I lived in So-Cal.... http://www.propertyroom.com/l/quantum-horticulture-lighting-fixture/8464997
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Are you saying DO NOT get a Zoo with external ballast?
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
no the external ballast is fine and the MV bulb is fine, its the design of their MH bulb that is dangerous, so dont get the MH bulbs, but they are out of stock anyways right now. i think they use the same ballasts for MH as MV, i dont kno i would have at look at the wattage for the MH.
anyways thought i would update prefer not to waste a new post so im gonna edit this one,
ahhhh the super cucumber, he is HUGE! my mother under the x2 florasuns x2 aquasuns and a 420 and 460 nm ,in some big ass pots getting ready to be flowered off in a few months in preparation to buy a house and move, and that little one is WOODYS HAZE a local srain dont know anything about it other than its a clone. got it from a friend but he keeps calling it an autoflower and i keep laughing at him because the plant would already be flowering as a clone if it was, some people just wont listen.
got some big yeild coming do know what i ahve been doin but its been right these guys especily the one on the right are looking like 2oz ea.
you can see the "staircase" look on the left, each group 1 week apart, on the right the whole cannopy and all my bud s hiding in there.
got my order of florasun put some in the veg and 2 over flowering and dimmed my HPS because of the heat. this is just prep for when i get the arcadias in the next month or so..
also fosters sen me these awesome cardboard tubes that are super thick and the perfect thing to make a reflector/s with. split down the middle cut to size line with hvac tape cut holes for tombstones there you go! perfect DIY reflector
anyways thought i would update prefer not to waste a new post so im gonna edit this one,
ahhhh the super cucumber, he is HUGE! my mother under the x2 florasuns x2 aquasuns and a 420 and 460 nm ,in some big ass pots getting ready to be flowered off in a few months in preparation to buy a house and move, and that little one is WOODYS HAZE a local srain dont know anything about it other than its a clone. got it from a friend but he keeps calling it an autoflower and i keep laughing at him because the plant would already be flowering as a clone if it was, some people just wont listen.got some big yeild coming do know what i ahve been doin but its been right these guys especily the one on the right are looking like 2oz ea.you can see the "staircase" look on the left, each group 1 week apart, on the right the whole cannopy and all my bud s hiding in there. got my order of florasun put some in the veg and 2 over flowering and dimmed my HPS because of the heat. this is just prep for when i get the arcadias in the next month or so..also fosters sen me these awesome cardboard tubes that are super thick and the perfect thing to make a reflector/s with. split down the middle cut to size line with hvac tape cut holes for tombstones there you go! perfect DIY reflector
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
this is awesome, totally sub'd but anyone want to help me do a pro/con for deciding between doing a total HOT5 grow and just vegging with the T5 and going 600w HPS for flower? 4x4x6 space for flower, and i do want to keep electricity costs down so if ventilation plus initial outlays are gonna be too high for keeping it cool with the hps, thats a major negatory
be easy
be easy
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
well to be honest i veg with t5 and flower with HID. the real upside to flowering with HID is that the plants can get a little large without worrying about losing to much yeild because of distance from light to buds. the upside to flowering with t5 is the spectrum choices you can make and the temps, but the fact that you cant have the bud far from the light means you will have to grow more small plants. personally i would run a combo of HID and t5 for flower, hps for the reds and a 6 bulb system to cover the rest of the spectrum, x2 coralwave or actinics fo some sort, x2 arcadia UVB t5, x2 florasun and then a 4 bulb or another 6 bulb t5 for veg.
Kite High
Well-Known Member
I have two megaray's 60 watts Zoo external ballasted and 2 megaray 70 Zoo megaray mh...they are more useful IMO as they give off a light that the plants want...mv has a horrible plant spectrum...also the externally ballasted lamps remain viable 18 or more months whereas the internally ballasted ones only 6-8 months...reason being is that the internally ballasted actually are ignited using a filament which adds lots of heat which in turn polarizing the glass quicker thereby dropping uvb production quicker...if they are still out of stock you can get an externally ballasted 60 watt mv but not a zoo model for a smaller area you can check this out
http://www.westronlighting.com/reptile-lighting/reptile-health/
you have to write them for the externally ballasted 60 watters
they were 2 for $40 when I bought mine...I use it in my femming areas
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
will do thanks man, i like the idea of using MH over mv personally too. yeah im sure ZOO fixed the issues with the glass by now its was just something that came up during my reading. if westron will offer me the same deal i would be very pleased.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
Drj20: I grow and flower under T5s. In your space consider 2-3 @ 4 bulb fixtures. An 8 bulb is too small, plus a bit unwieldy for bulb changes. You could put one each in the far sides (leaving you a center isle) + one vertically on the far wall for side lighting. I am looking into eshines new 2 ft Wall Washers (leds) for side lighting.
Last flowering I was using Coral Waves + Red Lifes + FloraSuns. The plant was a Sat, and grew over 7Ft. I snapped it at 3ft and eventually had to LST it across and under the bulbs because it outgrew available height.
Everything looked terrific until my pH meter started giving false readings. I kept adding more and more acid. At first I thought maybe my acid was old, as I never needed this much acid before. Leaves were turning ash gray, so I called Hanna. They said meters last a couple years, but I had replaced the probe about 6 months prior. Makes no difference. So I bought a new meter, but it was DOA; by the time I got the new new meter 2 weeks had passed. I lost at least half the yield due to plants burning up from the inside. Between that grow and this one, HO T5s easily penetrate 12"
New plants are Indica dom; two months old, they are ~ 15"; growth has slowed, so thinking to flip in ~ 5 days.
During early flower I will use UVL AquaSuns + Coral Waves + FloraSuns and UVL Red Lifes. From mid-flower on will replace either one AS with a 3rd Red Life + adding a UVL 660.
Last flowering I was using Coral Waves + Red Lifes + FloraSuns. The plant was a Sat, and grew over 7Ft. I snapped it at 3ft and eventually had to LST it across and under the bulbs because it outgrew available height.
Everything looked terrific until my pH meter started giving false readings. I kept adding more and more acid. At first I thought maybe my acid was old, as I never needed this much acid before. Leaves were turning ash gray, so I called Hanna. They said meters last a couple years, but I had replaced the probe about 6 months prior. Makes no difference. So I bought a new meter, but it was DOA; by the time I got the new new meter 2 weeks had passed. I lost at least half the yield due to plants burning up from the inside. Between that grow and this one, HO T5s easily penetrate 12"
New plants are Indica dom; two months old, they are ~ 15"; growth has slowed, so thinking to flip in ~ 5 days.
During early flower I will use UVL AquaSuns + Coral Waves + FloraSuns and UVL Red Lifes. From mid-flower on will replace either one AS with a 3rd Red Life + adding a UVL 660.
C.Indica
Well-Known Member
But guys, you'll save 60% or more by making the switch to incandescent!
Who can beat over 200 years of proven technology?
Not to mention, how much more american do you get?
With their amazing 3000k light spectrum,
they make great flowering bulbs.
They're super cheap too,
I've got a 900w incandescent grow at 6 weeks flowering myself.
Come on guys, what are you waiting for?
Who can beat over 200 years of proven technology?
Not to mention, how much more american do you get?
With their amazing 3000k light spectrum,
they make great flowering bulbs.
They're super cheap too,
I've got a 900w incandescent grow at 6 weeks flowering myself.
Come on guys, what are you waiting for?
kpmarine
Well-Known Member
do not feed the troll please! ^^^
Dr.J20
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the advice guys, I'm still working out my thoughts on this whole thing... I was set on going for a 6 bulb badboy for veg and an 8 bulb for flower following the Pr0fessur's bulb patterns, but now I'm thinking about reconsidering the HID...maybe my plan for the grow will help yall give me a better idea of my choices: I want to start 5 girls from seeds (fem'd seeds) and after they've been established and veged for 4 weeks take a clone from each, and let the donors recover for a week while the clones start to establish. I would then just keep the clones alive under 24hrs of light, slowly veging during the entire flower process of the original 5. When the seed generation is ready to harvest, I take the 2nd generation of clones from the 1st, and send the 1st into flower; ~75 days later the 1st Gen clones are ready to harvest and the 2nd Gens donate a clone each and so on until the 3rd generation of clones is complete. If this is the route i'm taking, would a 600w HPS be better in the flower room, and just suck it up and deal with electricity cost and buying a fan and worrying about dissipating heat etc...
i hope someone reads all this
my preference is T5 still right now,
let me know what yall think!
be easy
i hope someone reads all this
my preference is T5 still right now,
let me know what yall think!
be easy
polyarcturus
Well-Known Member
5 plants go t5 keep em short.
6 bulb and 8 bulb can handle a pretty big load by themselves i was just unsure of your goals. with a cycle like that t5 would be perfect no need for hid you can fit 5 decent plants under an 8 bulb t5 and do well.
but t5 doesnt really save elec or $ just provide different light i would use about the same amount of watts going HID or FLouro, might be able to skimp a 100watts or so on the flouro but that doesn't count for much maybe 4-7$ a month. and fans are pretty efficient 120watts of inline fan power gets you 400cfm. that's enough to cool a single 1000w, x2 600w if they are placed close together and x3 400w placed close together.
a 80w 4in inline fan doing around 200cfm is all you need for x2 400w placed close together.(these fan and light combos are a circuit without a filter, just lights)
beside when you run flouro you have to have a lot of internal air movement, average oscillating fan is 20w x3 which is the norm for flouro grow puts you 90 watts then you still need an exhaust fan...
so stop while your ahead these #s will only confuse you, either way is a great way to go, understanding the style is key, like i said the way your thinking i would go with T5 and add side lighting in the flower room, like the 8 bulb up top and a 4 bulb on the wall, the 6 bulb will be just fine for veg.
6 bulb and 8 bulb can handle a pretty big load by themselves i was just unsure of your goals. with a cycle like that t5 would be perfect no need for hid you can fit 5 decent plants under an 8 bulb t5 and do well.
but t5 doesnt really save elec or $ just provide different light i would use about the same amount of watts going HID or FLouro, might be able to skimp a 100watts or so on the flouro but that doesn't count for much maybe 4-7$ a month. and fans are pretty efficient 120watts of inline fan power gets you 400cfm. that's enough to cool a single 1000w, x2 600w if they are placed close together and x3 400w placed close together.
a 80w 4in inline fan doing around 200cfm is all you need for x2 400w placed close together.(these fan and light combos are a circuit without a filter, just lights)
beside when you run flouro you have to have a lot of internal air movement, average oscillating fan is 20w x3 which is the norm for flouro grow puts you 90 watts then you still need an exhaust fan...
so stop while your ahead these #s will only confuse you, either way is a great way to go, understanding the style is key, like i said the way your thinking i would go with T5 and add side lighting in the flower room, like the 8 bulb up top and a 4 bulb on the wall, the 6 bulb will be just fine for veg.