LED Without LEDs -My First T5 Grow

BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Here's where it starts to get a little bizarre.

Combination of 4 Red Sun and 4 Super Actinic
4 red sun 4 super actinic RGB.jpg
As you can see, the program says that when combining these two lights together it actually makes more green with a higher contrast value than replacing two of the actinics with two fiji purples as shown previously, which according to the color analysis the fiji purple has a lot more green in it than the super actinic. I am guessing the reason why the camera is picking up red in the super actinic is because of the extremely low wavelengths. Perhaps the super blue frequency is messing with the way the camera is detecting the light inside the camera?
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Looking at the RGB graphs, I can't help but wonder whether RGB relates to NPK and the ~ 60/40 blend of lights for veg and flower
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
Pat420 Very nice idea with the videos, but damn, why that choice of music? It's very DIS harmonious to my ears, and probably to the plants
 
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PatientNo.420

Member
I honestly hope my grow isn't given biased views and that I'm not judged by the music I listen to especially because I listen to a wide variety of music (no hostility here, just clarifying). I grew up with a strong hip-hop/rap influence so I listen to it daily because I love the beats (used to produce) and some of it is inspiring as well. Music was not intended to be in the video though, first day recording with a new phone and I couldn't find the audio mute button for the camera. I can't seem to find anywhere in the video editing on YouTube that allows me to mute it, obviously I'm going to have to figure out something as your not the first who has commented on the music, haha.

To the plants though, I can't say as the SLH are liking the music (they were donated to me so they had issues to begin with) but the rest hear it everyday with no complaints as of yet. That room is about to be done for a while anyways, it needs to be remodeled and the HID is hopefully gone for good. I'll keep them around as extra lights but I'd like to have T5's or LED in their place. I yield within a half oz per plant (almost everytime) of my HID yields per plant with the Quantum setup so just switching to them with their bulbs seems to be reason enough but with a better spectrum it could be better than LED as well. However, I can't seem to come to the conclusion as which combination of bulbs is going to be the best yield/quality combo. I notice different people are running different combinations.

Has anyone who has ran these bulbs on here been able to hit 4+ ounces in 3 gallon pot with these bulb configurations?
 
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ohiogrown03

Member
@patient - Well I know I won't hit the 4 mark this time, but I'm pretty sure it will be 3+ this was my first grow and used t5 and, for a little bit, a 400hps(for about three weeks during start of flower, wanted to test an old ballast to make sure it was reliable, but didn't want to just waste the lumens i was paying for!) Anyway, it should be done in 2-3 weeks. Well that's what i've said for the past 3 weeks straight anyway. I don't want to rush it and had a little spider mite problem about 5 weeks ago that stunted the new bud growth, and my orgranic pepper spray mixture burned 75% of the hairs and turned them red (duh shouldn't have done it under the light, but it was my first time and didn't think it through properly). Long story short there was a 2 week total stretch there about 5 weeks ago that no real progress was made it seems, but it rebounded great since and is full of white hairs and buds are plumping up nicely. I have noticed maybe 5-10% of the hairs are starting to orange/redden as of last night. I'll try to get some pics before the weekend is up and see what you guys think. I just hope they will frost up some more, i dried about a 1/2 dried branch that broke off during a move and it turned out not too bad, taste isn't great yet, hay still.

While I won't hit 4+ this time, it was my first go, I had some issues. Had a rough childhood, i left literally forgot about it outside behind a shed from june until sometime late semptember and it rained a ton here with not much sun this summer anyway it had flowered when it was about 6 inches tall and had just 1 tiny but on top, so i chopped the top off and revegged for about 2-3 months to get the small bush thing i got out of it. It was a seed of good genetics, just can't remember what it was that was given to me, i had it for two years before popping it. So we will see what the finally tally is here in month or so. damn that seems so long from now........
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
PatientNo.420 said:
I honestly hope my grow isn't given biased views and that I'm not judged by the music I listen to especially because I listen to a wide variety of music (no hostility here, just clarifying). I grew up with a strong hip-hop/rap influence so I listen to it daily because I love the beats (used to produce) and some of it is inspiring as well. Music was not intended to be in the video though, first day recording with a new phone and I couldn't find the audio mute button for the camera. I can't seem to find anywhere in the video editing on YouTube that allows me to mute it, obviously I'm going to have to figure out something as your not the first who has commented on the music, haha.

To the plants though, I can't say as the SLH are liking the music (they were donated to me so they had issues to begin with) but the rest hear it everyday with no complaints as of yet. That room is about to be done for a while anyways, it needs to be remodeled and the HID is hopefully gone for good. I'll keep them around as extra lights but I'd like to have T5's or LED in their place. I yield within a half oz per plant (almost everytime) of my HID yields per plant with the Quantum setup so just switching to them with their bulbs seems to be reason enough but with a better spectrum it could be better than LED as well. However, I can't seem to come to the conclusion as which combination of bulbs is going to be the best yield/quality combo. I notice different people are running different combinations.

Has anyone who has ran these bulbs on here been able to hit 4+ ounces in 3 gallon pot with these bulb configurations?
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looks good. I think petflora was more talking about the sound quality. yeah that was horrible. Im a hip hop /reggae head and an audio engineer and beat producer too. so i listen to everything. Ive been digging for samples lately listening to alot of o.v. wright and nina simone, even pulled some sergio mendez and boston samples too earlier. i couldn't handle that static


Ive been hitting about about an 1 oz to 1.5 oz. but my strains are pure or mostly indica. Sativas yield much more but take so much longer. I have one sativa dominant hybrid that I got around 50g to 70 g per.. that one takes forever to veg so the biggest i ever got it was 2 feet. its also not by best strain so i dont do it as much as the others i shim off any lower growth that does not get light .i do that too to get the bigger buds., that might make a smaller yield maybe....
 
Undercover Cop

Undercover Cop

Active Member
Added a repti-glo 10.0 for UVb... 26w cfl, in a 5" reflector about 12" away... for the full light cycle 12 hrs a day... will let ya'll know what kinda response I get.

day34 12/12 unknown indica
DSC02164.jpg
DSC02158.jpg
BUD PORN!!!! :hump:
 
Redoctober

Redoctober

Well-Known Member
Woah! Those leaves have a really interesting look to them. Almost a wet, slick, plastic type of texture. Never seen anything like that before. Do you think that's a characteristic of the strain you're growing or is it a byproduct of the T5's?
 
PetFlora

PetFlora

Well-Known Member
PatientNo.420 said:
I honestly hope my grow isn't given biased views and that I'm not judged by the music I listen to ..."

I would PM you, but I guess you don't have enough posts yet.

My comments here are my opinions. No need to respond as further conversation only distracts from the thread. My background is Marketing & Sales. I give them to help you grow your business.

Think like a potential Patient who comes across your website. What message are you sending? The site looks professional- GOOD! Keep in mind, people are looking to soothe their pain, but on a not so subliminal level your music choice is hitting them with discordant noise (I am not in pain, yet found the 'music' impossible to listen to). Further, ask yourself "Would I want to do business with a Care Giver who apparently likes such music?" Not me, if I had a choice. Now, IF, all your Patients have similar music tastes, it could fly, but how can you possibly know that? Better no music than this. If you can't delete the music, reshoot the video. Peace
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falcon223

Active Member
I love you man. But hate your music. That is just me, I feel honesty is best. If you got a bad hare cut would you want every one to say that looks good, when it looks like sh*& ???

But you know what you like, and that is all that matters.


Well on to growing. I finally got my refund from Hydro Galaxy. And have a 4 foot 8 bulb fixture coming. should be here Tuesday.
The red sun bulbs I ordered are on back order. Should ship on Tuesday.
I will post pics of the light when I get things set up.
 
Undercover Cop

Undercover Cop

Active Member
Redoctober said:
Woah! Those leaves have a really interesting look to them. Almost a wet, slick, plastic type of texture. Never seen anything like that before. Do you think that's a characteristic of the strain you're growing or is it a byproduct of the T5's?
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I think the T5s def help overall, but I cant compare to anything but bullshit mexican bagseed sativa, so I don't know if other indicas are like mine (ive suspected it may be bluecheese which is popular here now) I know shes not like any other plant I've had before :) I did just mist her, but otherwise she is a beautiful deep green, not a single spot of burn or deficiency anywhere, as healthy/happy as can be. The twisting leaves are from low humidity I believe (under 20% at highest) but she doesn't seem to suffer. Shes my first quality stain, but hopefully I should have a good selection soon
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Redoctober said:
Today I substituted a Zoomed Ultra Sun for a Flora Sun in my veg mix. I was kinda thinking that it was a similar spectrum to most 6500K's which people have reported good results with. I immediately noticed that within an hour, the leaves stood up, reaching for the light. I had seen this in some early pics on this thread. I interpret this type of phototropism as a good thing, though I suppose I could also take it to mean that the plants are reaching upwards because they are deprived of something. I cannot speak for any increase in growth yet because it's only been about 12 hours since I stuck it in, and it's only 1 bulb.

I think those including 6500K type spectrum in veg might be onto something. Not entirely sure about flower. I know that the pr0f doesn't really care for those bulbs, and I understand why, but I can't argue with what I have observed. I will update more about the growth as time passes. In looking at the spectral graph of the Ultra Sun (much like the 6500K) it does seem to be less than optimal. In fact, as far as PAR goes, it wouldn't even make my top 10 list. So it is a bit counter intuitive that this bulb would trigger any kind of growth surge or provide any benefit at all in the face of all these other superior PAR bulbs. Yet of all the combinations I have tried, it was this bulb that made the leaves stand up. Perhaps it is only one peak in there that is causing that to happen, and maybe this peak is also present in some of the other T5's I haven't tried e.g. 75.25, Fiji, 454. This might explain why others experienced this phenomenon. I'm not sure what it is about the Ultra Sun that the plants seem to like (or hate depending on how you interpret phototropism), but it has clearly elicited a response from the plants.

I'm not advocating these bulbs...not yet anyway; just thought I'd note the observation.
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I have done quite a few light mixtures with the so called PAR only arrangements and have never found a mixture of light that really make the plants take off. I believe I have done every arrangement possible. The lights that I found to produce the really amazing growth have been the Ultra Suns mixed with the Flora Suns in a 50/50 mix. I've been going back and forth between the fiji purples and red suns and blue bulbs and whenever I switch back to the Ultra sun/Flora sun arrangement the plants perk back up reaching for the light again. I've tried the Ultra suns by themselves and the Flora suns by themselves and it doesn't work as well until they are mixed 50/50. They designed the Flora sun bulb around what a plant needs. Why would they have put that green/yellow spectrum in there if plants didn't like that type of light? The people making the bulbs are the ones that really know. They are the ones that have spent days and days testing and retesting their products.

I would like to see some other people try out this florasun ultrasun 50/50 mixture and compare their results.

When you guys post photos of your plants, would you pleeeeease take the photos under regular lighting? Turn your grow lights off and turn on a regular white light so that the plant can show it's true colors. The plants always look different under red and blue light alone. I found that plants always look dark green under the red/blue lighting even if they are actually yellowing and unhealthy.
 
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falcon223

Active Member
BlueB, Where did you get your bulbs at? If it is ok to ask? I don't recall seeing a ultra sun, or Florasun.
Are they 4 foot bulbs?

Thanks.
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
Hey, I found this statement a little interesting,
Spectrum Deficiency
​
A low Red to Far Red or a low Blue to Red ratio spectrum can induce an overall shade-type growth response in a wide range of species, characterized by general elongation, a response normally allowing plants to reach above near by plants.
​
Spectrum deprived conditions, reduced growth and photosynthesis when plants are grown under only red light, (or too much red light?) can be can be reversed by adding sufficient green light to the spectrum. The PLS lights have sufficient Green to compensate.​
Informed by that article in: The Oxford Journal

Its a webpage talking about sulfur plasma lighting I believe.
http://www.grow-light-source.com/SULPHUR_PLASMA_LIGHTING_SYSTEM-PLS_by_LG.htm

Maybe this is why there was reduced growth without the UltraSuns? I believe that scientific research still has a long way to go when it comes to what types of light plants really like the most. Sure has been an exciting journey so far! I've seen the research, I've seen the studies that have been done about the middle part of the visual spectrum (mainly green 500-550nm) not really contributing to photosynthesis, but from my latest findings it doesn't really add up.

Here is the RGB ratio from the UltraSun/Florasun 50/50 mix that has been working so well,
50-50 FloraSun-UltraSun.jpg
The amount of red is still slightly dominant over the amount of blue and there is quite a bit of green in there but still less than red and blue.
I've got a couple more different types bulbs on the way to see if I can increase the amount of red and blue together over the amount of green. I don't want to increase or decrease the amount of green, but I would like to increase the amount of red and blue to see how the plants respond when that is done.
​
 
mipainpatient

mipainpatient

Active Member
Yea those guys (grow light source) sell the induction light I'm looking at, also some dialed in LED units that supposedly have been widely tested. Nice quote on the spectrum deficiency stuff, in so many words that's what I've been trying to say. The high yellow-blue of HPS (traditional, not blue blended obviously) spectrum output ratio compensates for the lack of PAR by providing what amounts to "adequate" intensity/quality lower canopy light. By my understanding because so much of plant evolution has been spent under the canopy of other (as likely their own species as not) plant's leaves, that is why the PAR to near/far IR ratio stuff is so important even at low levels because that may be all you get under the canopy. Your stunted plant is for lack of a better description, a happy plant. Just like people tho---keep em too happy and they may not reach their full potential.....Need is the driving piston of innovation.
Sorry if this isn't contributing, I'm having an evening off and wanted to respond despite potential incomprehensibility.
Ciao,
MPP
 
BlueB

BlueB

Active Member
mipainpatient said:
Yea those guys (grow light source) sell the induction light I'm looking at, also some dialed in LED units that supposedly have been widely tested. Nice quote on the spectrum deficiency stuff, in so many words that's what I've been trying to say. The high yellow-blue of HPS (traditional, not blue blended obviously) spectrum output ratio compensates for the lack of PAR by providing what amounts to "adequate" intensity/quality lower canopy light. By my understanding because so much of plant evolution has been spent under the canopy of other (as likely their own species as not) plant's leaves, that is why the PAR to near/far IR ratio stuff is so important even at low levels because that may be all you get under the canopy. Your stunted plant is for lack of a better description, a happy plant. Just like people tho---keep em too happy and they may not reach their full potential.....Need is the driving piston of innovation.
Sorry if this isn't contributing, I'm having an evening off and wanted to respond despite potential incomprehensibility.
Ciao,
MPP
Click to expand...
I get what you are trying to say. I think that is what Ed Rosenthal was trying to say in his book. I believe what he was explaining was that let say you have a light that puts out 40,000 lumens with low PAR, and a light that puts out 5,000 lumens with high PAR, the brighter light would do a better job even though it does not put out a specific wavelength.
 
hyroot

hyroot

Well-Known Member
BlueB said:
I have done quite a few light mixtures with the so called PAR only arrangements and have never found a mixture of light that really make the plants take off. I believe I have done every arrangement possible. The lights that I found to produce the really amazing growth have been the Ultra Suns mixed with the Flora Suns in a 50/50 mix. I've been going back and forth between the fiji purples and red suns and blue bulbs and whenever I switch back to the Ultra sun/Flora sun arrangement the plants perk back up reaching for the light again. I've tried the Ultra suns by themselves and the Flora suns by themselves and it doesn't work as well until they are mixed 50/50. They designed the Flora sun bulb around what a plant needs. Why would they have put that green/yellow spectrum in there if plants didn't like that type of light? The people making the bulbs are the ones that really know. They are the ones that have spent days and days testing and retesting their products.

I would like to see some other people try out this florasun ultrasun 50/50 mixture and compare their results.

When you guys post photos of your plants, would you pleeeeease take the photos under regular lighting? Turn your grow lights off and turn on a regular white light so that the plant can show it's true colors. The plants always look different under red and blue light alone. I found that plants always look dark green under the red/blue lighting even if they are actually yellowing and unhealthy.
Click to expand...


question - how have you done so many light combinations so quickly and already came to conclusions..... ? When a week ago you were asking what bulbs to use.......

if you are doing multiple comparisons You would need to run several batches with different bulb combos at the same time. it would still be 3 or 4 months to you would see any final results. you would have to to do at least 2 or 3 batches under one combo just to makes sure you get the same results in case of outside factors.

Im not knocking you its just that your experimenting seems quite a bit premature. Ive done 6 months of par lighting. still switching bulbs around and yet no final conclusion..... im going with my next light 3 redsun, 1 coral wave, 4 coralife coloramax (unless the ultra growth comes out). it will be another 6 months til i know if i like that combo more than what I already have.

I have found that 2 coral waves is too much infrared for one fixture. towards the end im seeing some heat burns on the leaves. my room is always at 74 degrees. thats happened on every batch so far. that much heat radiating from infrared can diminish yield too.
 
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falcon223

Active Member
Yep, It is a trial and airer thing. We seem to to be at the point of looking for more bulb choices.
I like hearing about what is working and what is not. I have been buying bulbs while waiting for my fixture. So I will
have several bulbs to try.
 
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