LED vs H.I.D

Boatguy said:

Sad that we are still entertaining threads with led vs hid..
It has been proven that led can produce more gpw than hid.
Why people are still trying to push hid anywhere outside of a greenhouse sized grow or other large scale thing is mind boggling. The benefits of led even have large scale growers making the switch.. Plants dont care about the artificial light source, and love the lack of issues associated with being outdoors

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People who are purchasing and consuming do not care about GPM they care about quality. HPS is better quality. I don't care what scientist and studies in labs have shown. I listen to those who smoke it and tell me which they like most and it is the HPS grown flower. I wish it wasn't true because I enjoy using LED's a lot. Mixed spectrum is where it is at best of both worlds.
Another note, those saying HPS cost more ect ect I did not find it true with 7 years running Leds I spent some years 5% more or 5% less not enough to matter. With Leds you have to run a lot more humidifiers vs HPS that uses more AC which also humidifies while cooling. Also heating in winters cost more with led. And that is with running both lights on at night so the heating period was during the warmer parts of the days.
Also Leds made strains I had ran for years take on avg 2 weeks longer to finish and wanted to keep pushing new hairs and I believe that is from the higher ppfd. Most Leds are too focused on higher ppfd when it stresses the plants too much. Less truly is more.

cage said:

If the Hortilux Super Blue really was the pinnacle of flowering quality, you'd still see them in use by winners of Emerald Cup or Spannabis. But most of them have gone LED, even the old-school breeders are switching over.

Most recent Cannabis Cup winners (2019–2024) increasingly use high-end full-spectrum LEDs

Some legacy winners from the 2010s did use CMH or HPS, often combined with heavy CO₂ and environmental control, but rarely MH or dual-arc bulbs like the Hortilux Super Blue.
Masonic Smoker, Compound Genetics, Jungle Boys, and Connected Cannabis Co. — known for top-tier flower — have either switched to LEDs or hybrid LED/CMH setups in recent years.

According to the 2023 State of the Cannabis Lighting Market report by Cannabis Business Times, LED lighting has become the predominant choice among commercial cannabis growers:

- 73% of commercial cultivators reported using LEDs for flowering in 2023, up from 15% in 2016.
- 62% of growers cited "crop quality" as the primary reason for adopting LED technology, surpassing considerations like yield (16%) and energy efficiency (12%).

DogHouse Supreme Cannabis, a five-time Dope Cup award winner, has transitioned to using Sunscape LED lighting systems. The cultivator reported significant benefits, including up to a 70% reduction in electricity usage and enhanced terpene production, particularly during the final two weeks of flowering .

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Thats odd because all the growers I know have either fully gone back to hps between 2024 and now or to mixed light because the quality just was not there with LEDs. They did not care what the lab results were they listen to customers. Only way to know what is best is by doing so not reading lab test sorry, it can be helpful in some ways but it doesn't and never will tell what is the real fire bud.

HazeIsMids said:

People who are purchasing and consuming do not care about GPM they care about quality. HPS is better quality. I don't care what scientist and studies in labs have shown. I listen to those who smoke it and tell me which they like most and it is the HPS grown flower. I wish it wasn't true because I enjoy using LED's a lot. Mixed spectrum is where it is at best of both worlds.
Another note, those saying HPS cost more ect ect I did not find it true with 7 years running Leds I spent some years 5% more or 5% less not enough to matter. With Leds you have to run a lot more humidifiers vs HPS that uses more AC which also humidifies while cooling. Also heating in winters cost more with led. And that is with running both lights on at night so the heating period was during the warmer parts of the days.
Also Leds made strains I had ran for years take on avg 2 weeks longer to finish and wanted to keep pushing new hairs and I believe that is from the higher ppfd. Most Leds are too focused on higher ppfd when it stresses the plants too much. Less truly is more.

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The idea that AC humidifies is factually not correct. Though it may regulate rh a bit upwards in some situations since lowering temps will make the air hold less absolute humidity the AC tends to draw out water from the air as it cools it; thats why you need that little drain/tank. Enjoy growing

Rocket Soul said:

The idea that AC humidifies is factually not correct. Though it may regulate rh a bit upwards in some situations since lowering temps will make the air hold less absolute humidity the AC tends to draw out water from the air as it cools it; thats why you need that little drain/tank. Enjoy growing

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24-25C AC drops RH by 5-10%
If you lower the temps even more, RH will become steady at what it was when you began

LEDs was unleashed on the world to do one thing only, destroy living tissues.
Plants and humans are alike, we both suffer from those lights
All of the tests being done on weed and other plants show they are no match for real noble gas/magnetic arc tech, which mimic the sun best for more than 50 years.

If your customers don't care and they like your LED bud and you save $$$ while doing it, good for you or them, but it wont change the reality of their specs or the tech itself from being harmful and lacking.

PTS.Genetics said:

24-25C AC drops RH by 5-10%
If you lower the temps even more, RH will become steady at what it was when you began

LEDs was unleashed on the world to do one thing only, destroy living tissues.
Plants and humans are alike, we both suffer from those lights
All of the tests being done on weed and other plants show they are no match for real noble gas/magnetic arc tech, which mimic the sun best for more than 50 years.

If your customers don't care and they like your LED bud and you save $$$ while doing it, good for you or them, but it wont change the reality of their specs or the tech itself from being harmful and lacking.

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I dont really know how to respond or what youre responding to; my comment was that AC dont humidifies, dont raise humidity. Just as you say it removes humidity from the air.

I have lots of sympathy for peeps having problems growing with leds, especially what you find on todays cookie cutter spectrum market. But the "leds unleashed" sounds very conspiranoia to me.

The "all the tests" without any source or reference is hard to take serious if you can wrap your head around that ive seen something different in tests of my own, both led vrs HPS and CMH and different leds vrs eachother with serious differences in spectrum. All i can assume is that the tests you talk about was not using what we use. Sadly almost all modern grow leds have a spectrum which i dont quite like the end quality of in comparison to various lights.
But ill happily grant you that some genetics do bad with leds, our mandarine kush was never really right under leds. Our amnesia haze was both yieldier, denser and better quality/smell than the HPS side in the same growspace, and environment was more geared towards the hps side then the led side in that side by side.

When it comes to testing; leds offer one thing that hps dont; the possibility to modify specific parts of the spectrum to see how it affect end quality. With HID you only have your base spectrum, or variants due to mixing of bulbs.
A lot of the spectrum design i did witht the lights ive tested i had one eye on the HPS spectrum - not in trying to recreate it but keeping in mind that HPS have certain nm balanced against eachother in specific bioreactive ranges which your standard cold white + red led dont have.
My best advice re leds that dont give you the results you want: way too much green and 660red, not enough wide coverage of the blue violet uv end.

I aldo admit that theres a subjective factor involved: terp levels % in is only part of the story, the other part is how it hits your own nose/lungs/mind.

"If your customers don't care and they like your LED bud and you save $$$ while doing it, good for you or them, but it wont change the reality of their specs or the tech itself from being harmful and lacking."

This is an unusually respectful way of talking, both in this age old discussion a d generally for online behaviour. I hope i dont sound to snarky and i want to extend the same invitation: grow buds with bulbs and enjoy.
Going with leds for us had somewhat to do with power savings (or not reaching our baby amp limit) but more to do with environment: it was just impossible to keep going with HPS as a light source due to temps and summers getting so hot that you couldnt cool down the space no matter how we tried, and AC was not an option unfortunately.
If youre ever forced to change tech then remember there is someone who made it work, youre welcome to hit me up.

All the best and many happy grows

Rocket Soul said:

The idea that AC humidifies is factually not correct. Though it may regulate rh a bit upwards in some situations since lowering temps will make the air hold less absolute humidity the AC tends to draw out water from the air as it cools it; thats why you need that little drain/tank. Enjoy growing

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your correct because what I meant was dehumidifies. Mistype sorry.

Thats what i meant, no disrespect
If you and your crowd are good with it, go with it, why not
Just know the facts, claiming leds are better than hids just shows what kind of joke people have bought into, again, no disrespect, use what you want, but dont claim its superior when you know its not.
I wont dig up a test or peer review anytime someone new to this bs wants, if you are really interested in this subject, research it.
Come back and tell me if what i said about other plants grown under leds were successful like HIDs or the sun.
Do your own research and draw conclusions.
And just because something sounds "conspiracy like" to you, doesn't mean its not valid, it just means you are better at deflection with high words that were made for this purpose, dismiss opinions and people.
Now you know why i never take you seriously Rocket Soul, you are a led salesman, never took the time to study the tech you sell, busy calling people's opinions and facts for that matter, conspiracy.
Good luck for all indeed, they are gonna need it.

PTS.Genetics said:

Thats what i meant, no disrespect
If you and your crowd are good with it, go with it, why not
Just know the facts, claiming leds are better than hids just shows what kind of joke people have bought into, again, no disrespect, use what you want, but dont claim its superior when you know its not.
I wont dig up a test or peer review anytime someone new to this bs wants, if you are really interested in this subject, research it.
Come back and tell me if what i said about other plants grown under leds were successful like HIDs or the sun.
Do your own research and draw conclusions.
And just because something sounds "conspiracy like" to you, doesn't mean its not valid, it just means you are better at deflection with high words that were made for this purpose, dismiss opinions and people.
Now you know why i never take you seriously Rocket Soul, you are a led salesman, never took the time to study the tech you sell, busy calling people's opinions and facts for that matter, conspiracy.
Good luck for all indeed, they are gonna need it.

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kingrow1?

Same condescending tone either way.

PTS.Genetics said:

Thats what i meant, no disrespect
If you and your crowd are good with it, go with it, why not
Just know the facts, claiming leds are better than hids just shows what kind of joke people have bought into, again, no disrespect, use what you want, but dont claim its superior when you know its not.
I wont dig up a test or peer review anytime someone new to this bs wants, if you are really interested in this subject, research it.
Come back and tell me if what i said about other plants grown under leds were successful like HIDs or the sun.
Do your own research and draw conclusions.
And just because something sounds "conspiracy like" to you, doesn't mean its not valid, it just means you are better at deflection with high words that were made for this purpose, dismiss opinions and people.
Now you know why i never take you seriously Rocket Soul, you are a led salesman, never took the time to study the tech you sell, busy calling people's opinions and facts for that matter, conspiracy.
Good luck for all indeed, they are gonna need it.

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Links to LED Vs HPS controlled studies:

Trial A: Photosynthetic Performance and Potency of Cannabis sativa L. Grown under LED and HPS Illumination link: https://www.scirp.org/journal/paperinformation?paperid=108091

Trial B: Light Quality Impacts Vertical Growth Rate, Phytochemical Yield and Cannabinoid Production Efficiency in Cannabis sativa Link: https://www.mdpi.com/2223-7747/11/21/2982

Trial C: The Effect of Light Spectrum on the Morphology and Cannabinoid Content of Cannabis sativa L. Link: https://karger.com/mca/article/1/1/19/189037/The-Effect-of-Light-Spectrum-on-the-Morphology-and

Trial D: Cannabis lighting: Decreasing blue photon fraction increases yield but efficacy is more important for cost effective production of cannabinoids Link here: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0248988

Trial E: Influence of Light Spectra on the Production of Cannabinoids Link here: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0926669021001151