LED strip gurus around here? Stop by and check out this vertical setup that needs tweaking!!

Sir420

Sir420

Active Member
As my LED family knows, narrowing down your components for a diy light can seem overwhelming.. it is almost time for me to start up so now I need to be putting in orders.. I've had a couple ideas shared before to me about the "super" light I'm trying to build.. not sure if it's still the latest tech.. so guys I've got the diy vertical tower garden & want to line LEDs vertically around each PVC (I'll tag a picture)


My lights will be hanging from the ceiling all around it though.. more than 4 light bars per PVC.. my goal is to be more efficient than anything else.. money is not a issue here, I think the Q series strips are still the most efficient strip on the market today??? Not sure.. BUT I will have 2800 flower watts & 4 PVC pipes so that's 700watt per 6' tower.. I don't want to make the mistake of buying the wrong strip. IfIf am trying to maximize efficiency what would you recommend.. thanks in advance.. I'm guessing I'll have to DIY a fixture similar to this


But circular and have leds going all around PVC.. really not like that... More like a light mover racks that shaped like a star to move lights forward or backwards...

More like this but I'll alsobe able to slide them closer or away
 
Sir420

Sir420

Active Member
@Randomblame this has gotten to be the millionth time some random guy tagged you in another post about building a LED fixture :bigjoint::clap::lol: do you know any guys or suggestions if each bar was 5 ft long & I want at least 6 lights per PVC with getting them as close as possible money if not a issue but efficiency & electricity bill is lol
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Sir420 said:
@Randomblame this has gotten to be the millionth time some random guy tagged you in another post about building a LED fixture :bigjoint::clap::lol: do you know any guys or suggestions if each bar was 5 ft long & I want at least 6 lights per PVC with getting them as close as possible money if not a issue but efficiency & electricity bill is lol
Click to expand...

1.000.001 now, lol!
Depends a bit where you life on the planet and what point of efficiency you want to reach. For EU peeps LED-tech.de is a good source for Samsung midpower boards and strips. Their 50cm strip has 98 LM301b, is available in 3500 and 6500°k and is better(more efficient) like Samsungs H-influx L06 strips and 5ft is ~1,5m, 3 strips in a row would fit perfect. They cost 16€ incl. VAT and 15 if you take more than 10pcs. +9800lm in 3500°k at 21v/2,8A max. current(+58w). I would drive them at 700mA(~13w) cuz they reach 200lm/w when you drive them low and they are pretty cheap.

For US peeps I would say the PLC strips(pacificlightingconcepts) are the best currently. 2ft., 96 LM301b and 4 Cree XP-EHE but they are more costly. 28$ each and I don't know if there is a way to get something like a rui member discount.

But you could also order the 50cm Samsung strips in germany, they ship worldwide. In this case you would safe 19% VAT but you have to pay shipping costs and maybe custom fees depending on you locale laws. 10 strips would probably cost "only" ~126,50€ and dhl express shipping maybe another 50€. You could pay via paypal or credit card..

To figure out how much strips you really need depends on your grow area. You should calculate with 30-35w/sft and with "5ft PVC" its hard to calculate something. The best way to wire them is in parallel in this case you need an HLG-XXXH-20A or B or you connect each 2 in series and use an HLG-XXXH-42A or B and connect all the 2 strip strings in parallel. At 1000mA you still get +195lm/w and each strip would run with ~20w net, each 3 strips would cover 2sft with ~915μMol/s/m². Depending on the distance you can even get higher numbers. At 6" hanging height you would probably read more than 1000μMol/s.
 
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nachooo

nachooo

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
1.000.001 now, lol!
Depends a bit where you life on the planet and what point of efficiency you want to reach. For EU peeps LED-tech.de is a good source for Samsung midpower boards and strips. Their 50cm strip has 98 LM301b, is available in 3500 and 6500°k and is better(more efficient) like Samsungs H-influx L06 strips and 5ft is ~1,5m, 3 strips in a row would fit perfect. They cost 16€ incl. VAT and 15 if you take more than 10pcs. +9800lm in 3500°k at 21v/2,8A max. current(+58w). I would drive them at 700mA(~13w) cuz they reach 200lm/w when you drive them low and they are pretty cheap.

For US peeps I would say the PLC strips(pacificlightingconcepts) are the best currently. 2ft., 96 LM301b and 4 Cree XP-EHE but they are more costly. 28$ each and I don't know if there is a way to get something like a rui member discount.

But you could also order the 50cm Samsung strips in germany, they ship worldwide. In this case you would safe 19% VAT but you have to pay shipping costs and maybe custom fees depending on you locale laws. 10 strips would probably cost "only" ~126,50€ and dhl express shipping maybe another 50€. You could pay via paypal or credit card..

To figure out how much strips you really need depends on your grow area. You should calculate with 30-35w/sft and with "5ft PVC" its hard to calculate something. The best way to wire them is in parallel in this case you need an HLG-XXXH-20A or B or you connect each 2 in series and use an HLG-XXXH-42A or B and connect all the 2 strip strings in parallel. At 1000mA you still get +195lm/w and each strip would run with ~20w net, each 3 strips would cover 2sft with ~915μMol/s/m². Depending on the distance you can even get higher numbers. At 6" hanging height you would probably read more than 1000μMol/s.
Click to expand...
Hi Randomblame, its a pleasure to read your postings from time to time. As I am in Europe I decided to buy from led-tech..think is almost as cheap as china considering dhl cost and customs. I am gonna build a little fixture with 3 long strips , each one will be make by wiring two 50 cm led-tech (98 lm301b) in series.
and drived with 1000ma so the 3 strips Will be 100 watts ( for a total of 6 led-tech units)
I want to add some deep reds to the fixture. How many red square oslon from led -tech would you add to this 100 watts fixture? Also how many amperes should I need to drive the Deep red leds?
Thanks for your time.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
You could also make strings of 3 strips in series when you drive them at 1200mA's or lower.
Each strip needs around 19v then and 3 x 19v is 57v. This means you could use an HLG-240H-54A to drive 4 of these vertical 3 strip bars in parallel. You need only to turn up the build in voltage regulator.
Each bar would have around 68w and you would have at least 260w net in each "bird cage" maybe ~280w at the wall.
I don't the diameter and can not calculate the surface area but you could also use 6 vertical bars and an HLG-320H-54A for a bigger bird cage.
But A version drivers are only dimmable down to 50% and B series can not go above their nominal voltage cuz they don't have a voltage regulator. So you're forced to use A version drivers if you drive them this way.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
nachooo said:
Hi Randomblame, its a pleasure to read your postings from time to time. As I am in Europe I decided to buy from led-tech..think is almost as cheap as china considering dhl cost and customs. I am gonna build a little fixture with 3 long strips , each one will be make by wiring two 50 cm led-tech (98 lm301b) in series.
and drived with 1000ma so the 3 strips Will be 100 watts ( for a total of 6 led-tech units)
I want to add some deep reds to the fixture. How many red square oslon from led -tech would you add to this 100 watts fixture? Also how many amperes should I need to drive the Deep red leds?
Thanks for your time.
Click to expand...
20pcs hyperred Osram Square diodes running at 700mA would add ~30w deep-red to your fixture. They have currently the VM bin which means 3,36μMol/J(W) so 20 of them would increase the PPF by 100μMol/s.
But I would rather use an HLG-120H-42B and connect each 2 strips in series and the 3 strings in parallel or with other words in a 2s3p circuit. With only 2 strips in series you could use an HLG-120H-42B and because the strips only take around 38-39v the driver would run in constant current mode and B version is dimmable down to 6-10%. No need for a voltage regulator. Maybe 115-120w and 197lm/w means ~2,75μMol/J, that's ~320μMol/s.
Together with the hyperred Osrams that's ~420μMol/s PPF out of 150w at the wall, theoretical over all efficiency ~2,8 fucking μMol/J. Enough light to cover a half squaremeter with 840μMol/s/m² when you distribute the strips evenly.

You could also use an ELG-100H-42B and the same 2s3p circuitry but you get only 90-100w out of this driver. Slightly better over all efficiency but only ~265μMol/s instead of 320. But still 730μMol/s/m² PPFD above a half squaremeter.

Running that low they even need no heat sinks. You could use a 2 or 3mm thick aluminum sheet to mount the strips and deep-red diodes and that's already enough cooling. The sheet would probably stay below 50°C and when you add a few c-channels on its backside you can further improve the cooling capabilities.

Something like this works extremely well and costs maybe 10-15% of what a heat sink costs with this dimensions.
Selfmade LED Heatsink, 600x350mm, used passive with 120w, T.c stays below 50°C.jpg
And thats the same DIY heat sink running 6 CXB2540 and 150w...

Selfmade Heatsink with 6 COB's.png
 
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Sir420

Sir420

Active Member
@Randomblame I'm US but what if I wanted to buy those LED reels of lm301b off digikey and I can buy some Cree xp-ehe to match up .. the led reels are flexible & it's like 4000 for like 4-500$ so I can get 1 or 2 reels to cover 2800 watts & my sqft it basically 21"x6' & buds have enough room to grow 20" so that's basically 4' diameter or (circle) of PVC buds all around and adjustable lights always rotating
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
I plan also already something new, lol!
Based on 3mm alli sheets with "reflector wings" but probably running with 2 true CRI90+ Nichia boards and an UVB bulb in the center.
3mm alu, 540x 570mm mount. surf., 600x 570mm incl. reflector wings.png
Driver, ballast, dimmers and AV meters inside an extra housing on the backside.
Case for UVB ballast, far-red driver and Sonoff Dual, main driver remotely wired.jpg

The boards are not on the market yet but I can get a few pre-production boards for testing and will show them as soon as its allowed.
Really a "high light" board IMO cuz they strictly use Nichia CRI90 and 95, no colored diodes. To date I can only tell you guys its a 250w max. aussie board... but not from cutter, lol!

@TEKNIK
I will ask him(the owner) if he's interested in combined sphere and genio tests and IES files. As far as I know he "only" have a lighting passport for spectrum and PAR tests but I know he's is more interested in true numbers.
When they work as good as expected they will soon be available. But what we have seen till now looks very promising so maybe already in Q2/19.
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
I plan also already something new, lol!
Based on 3mm alli sheets with "reflector wings" but probably running with 2 true CRI90+ Nichia boards and an UVB bulb in the center.
View attachment 4308769
Driver, ballast, dimmers and AV meters inside an extra housing on the backside.
View attachment 4308770

The boards are not on the market yet but I can get a few pre-production boards for testing and will show them as soon as its allowed.
Really a "high light" board IMO cuz they strictly use Nichia CRI90 and 95, no colored diodes. To date I can only tell you guys its a 250w max. aussie board... but not from cutter, lol!

@TEKNIK
I will ask him(the owner) if he's interested in combined sphere and genio tests and IES files. As far as I know he "only" have a lighting passport for spectrum and PAR tests but I know he's is more interested in true numbers.
When they work as good as expected they will soon be available. But what we have seen till now looks very promising so maybe already in Q2/19.
Click to expand...
I can test it, the spectrometer measures from 350nm to 840nm so you won't see the UVB. I will try to get the software modified for the machine because I am pretty sure the spectrometer can measure to 250nm but they haven't set up the software to do it yet.

I am limited to 1.5 meters in diameter for tests, if the light gets bigger than that I cant test it.
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Sir420 said:
21" x 72" x 20" is the cubic measure of straight canopy
Click to expand...
Hmm!
21" is the diameter and 72" is the height? This means a cylindrical area and we need to calculate the lateral surface area.
Wait.. The formula to calculate this area is circumference x height so at first we need the circumference. The formula should be 2x π x r means 2x 3,14 x 10,5" = 65,97" height is 72" so roughly 66 x 72 = 4,752inch² lateral surface area.
That's 33sft lateral surface! Hopefully thats correct ... school is out since a long time, lol!
But in ernest, that's a bit too big for only 280w.

But I'm not sure that's really the grow area. You have probably measured from light bar to light bar but the plants need a certain distance to the lights. So the circumference of the whole light is not the same like your grow area.
Even if you run the strips low at 20w each there should be at least 4inch distance between strip and canopy.

I recommend to measure again and use the formula 2 x π x r (radius= half diameter) x height to calculate the lateral surface area.
For 33sft vertical space you would need at least ~800w and that's 12-14 vertical bars a 3 strips. Inner diameter 21" but outer diameter of one fixture probalby 25 or better 28inch.
That's not what I've seen in your pictures...
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
TEKNIK said:
I can test it, the spectrometer measures from 350nm to 840nm so you won't see the UVB. I will try to get the software modified for the machine because I am pretty sure the spectrometer can measure to 250nm but they haven't set up the software to do it yet.

I am limited to 1.5 meters in diameter for tests, if the light gets bigger than that I cant test it.
Click to expand...
Nope, LOL! No worry, a single board has only ~21 x 42cm, with heat sinks a little more. 120w max w/o heat sink and up to 250w with. Because of a few purple based coolwhites mixed in the 2700 or 3000°k spectrum it goes from 385-750nm.
These boards are especially made for flowering crops.
The alli sheets above are just for mounting and cooling purposes to build two usable 2x 2' fixtures for my own groom.
Such a big 4x 2' fixture is nice to have but handling is a straight 6 minus, lol!
It takes an half hour to squeeze my current lamp in my small cab and with two smaller fixtures it would be much easier.
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
Nope, LOL! No worry, a single board has only ~21 x 42cm, with heat sinks a little more. 120w max w/o heat sink and up to 250w with. Because of a few purple based coolwhites mixed in the 2700 or 3000°k spectrum it goes from 385-750nm.
These boards are especially made for flowering crops.
The alli sheets above are just for mounting and cooling purposes to build two usable 2x 2' fixtures for my own groom.
Such a big 4x 2' fixture is nice to have but handling is a straight 6 minus, lol!
It takes an half hour to squeeze my current lamp in my small cab and with two smaller fixtures it would be much easier.
Click to expand...
That's easy then, I won't be doing free tests forever so take advantage of it while you can. If they are in Australia it makes it alot easier too
 
Randomblame

Randomblame

Well-Known Member
Sir420 said:
@Randomblame I'm US but what if I wanted to buy those LED reels of lm301b off digikey and I can buy some Cree xp-ehe to match up .. the led reels are flexible & it's like 4000 for like 4-500$ so I can get 1 or 2 reels to cover 2800 watts & my sqft it basically 21"x6' & buds have enough room to grow 20" so that's basically 4' diameter or (circle) of PVC buds all around and adjustable lights always rotating
Click to expand...
Haha, no!
These reels are only bare LM301b diod but they are not mounted on circuit boards, lol!
You would be forced to solder thausands of diodes by yourself, lol! No need to mention that you would need printed circuit boards with the right solder pattern and so on. It would take weeks or you need a company with a pick and place bot incl. soldering oven.
Believe me, you want them already mounted on strip PCB's. Hand soldering a few thausand midpower diodes takes probably a few weeks and depending on your soldering skills maybe even more. This reels are no option unless you plan the production in china. Even if money is no problem I would rather take something with "made in germany sticker".
 
TEKNIK

TEKNIK

Well-Known Member
Cutter strips with Nichia instead of cree will work, you need to find out what is cheaper to use, the ones from Germany are good with the Samsung but I think the cutter strips with Nichia will work out to be better. I have some nichia boards too for strips but they are alot more expensive than the cutter ones.

Edit
I think waveform in the USA may also have something for you, I know they use nichia, I think I saw a rigid board they have with nichia V3 chips somewhere
 
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nachooo

nachooo

Well-Known Member
Randomblame said:
20pcs hyperred Osram Square diodes running at 700mA would add ~30w deep-red to your fixture. They have currently the VM bin which means 3,36μMol/J(W) so 20 of them would increase the PPF by 100μMol/s.
But I would rather use an HLG-120H-42B and connect each 2 strips in series and the 3 strings in parallel or with other words in a 2s3p circuit. With only 2 strips in series you could use an HLG-120H-42B and because the strips only take around 38-39v the driver would run in constant current mode and B version is dimmable down to 6-10%. No need for a voltage regulator. Maybe 115-120w and 197lm/w means ~2,75μMol/J, that's ~320μMol/s.
Together with the hyperred Osrams that's ~420μMol/s PPF out of 150w at the wall, theoretical over all efficiency ~2,8 fucking μMol/J. Enough light to cover a half squaremeter with 840μMol/s/m² when you distribute the strips evenly.

You could also use an ELG-100H-42B and the same 2s3p circuitry but you get only 90-100w out of this driver. Slightly better over all efficiency but only ~265μMol/s instead of 320. But still 730μMol/s/m² PPFD above a half squaremeter.

Running that low they even need no heat sinks. You could use a 2 or 3mm thick aluminum sheet to mount the strips and deep-red diodes and that's already enough cooling. The sheet would probably stay below 50°C and when you add a few c-channels on its backside you can further improve the cooling capabilities.

Something like this works extremely well and costs maybe 10-15% of what a heat sink costs with this dimensions.
View attachment 4308748
And thats the same DIY heat sink running 6 CXB2540 and 150w...

View attachment 4308749
Click to expand...
Thanks very much for your kind reply. It solves my doubts nicely.
Regarding the drivers, I was planning to use this italian drivers I purchased from export estonia store in eBay about two years ago..
they are about 1000ma maximun and allow the voltaje needed for two germans strip in series at about 33 watts..I have 9 of this drivers , and they are versatile cause can be dimmed by Little switches.
So each strip at 16,5 watts Will be very efficient…. Do yo think they are good drivers? Are this way of dimming good?…This way I will be able to dim each strip to 5 watts minimun...extreme efficiency in vegetative mode… ​
IMG_20190329_225312.jpg

And another question...which blue leds from led tech and how many will you use to suplement this 100 watts 3 strings lamp with the deeps reds added? I mean those blues that are lacking in the samsungs White spectrum 3500 k . As I have 730 far reds and some 365 UVA in other fixtures and some UVB in reptil CFL I think this will is cover all the spectrum now…
Thanks in advance and greetings from spanish Pyrenees
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
Hybridway actually documented well a setup like your proposing. There's a fixture that is straight light strings you hang from the ceiling. He had decent results but found that more light at the top where it counts produces more yield.
Trying to remember the name of that light....
 
Airwalker16

Airwalker16

Well-Known Member
nachooo said:
Thanks very much for your kind reply. It solves my doubts nicely.
Regarding the drivers, I was planning to use this italian drivers I purchased from export estonia store in eBay about two years ago..
they are about 1000ma maximun and allow the voltaje needed for two germans strip in series at about 33 watts..I have 9 of this drivers , and they are versatile cause can be dimmed by Little switches.
So each strip at 16,5 watts Will be very efficient…. Do yo think they are good drivers? Are this way of dimming good?…This way I will be able to dim each strip to 5 watts minimun...extreme efficiency in vegetative mode… ​
View attachment 4308849

And another question...which blue leds from led tech and how many will you use to suplement this 100 watts 3 strings lamp with the deeps reds added? I mean those blues that are lacking in the samsungs White spectrum 3500 k . As I have 730 far reds and some 365 UVA in other fixtures and some UVB in reptil CFL I think this will is cover all the spectrum now…
Thanks in advance and greetings from spanish Pyrenees
Click to expand...
That driver is SO FUCKING COOL
 
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