LED SOG. 4k Budget. Help Plan My Grow :)

What I was thinkIng was :
a SOG of autos initially
Ebb and flow automatic
big grow tent (5x7x6 or so)
SuperGrowLEDs (opinions? They seemed high quality and scale well)
Carbon scrubbing
CO2 being monitored and regulated, dispersed via tube directed in front of oscillating fan

That's the plan in my head. I was thinking maybe 16 or 32 plants.

Does that seem like enough room for that? Am I missing any equipment? Stealth is relatively important, I can invest in a few ways to make the room disappear. Important goals to me are as easy and automated of a grow as possible.

Your thoughts and ideas are really appreciated, I'm enjoying the community and the wealth of information!

Entree

Welll, why LEDS? Ive used them, only diff is that theyre color specific. They still get hot, and are very costly. You could be several 1000w lights for the cost of one big high quality led.

They appear to be 5-8 times as efficient, which would result in less heat, associated exhausting, and electricity.

Those SuperGrowLEDs seemed to be the exact range of wavelength and color for veg all the way through flowering. But I'd love more insight onto comparables.

I was thinking after the autos I'd setup a Clone tent as well. I also need some advice on what table to use for ebb and flow (diy or buy?)

Any associated electronics... So much to plan!

Bump! Any help is appreciated!

I've used LEDs too. They're not nearly as hot, but still not worth much. Go HID for sure. LEDs don't flower well at all.

Ebb and Flow works well but you will end up wasting a lot more nutrients down the line to keep all that medium moist. Aero is a great way to go, or just use DWC buckets/resevoir.

LEDs really can't put out a high quality bud in SOG? That's disappointing to hear :/

I was thinking ebb and flow because of the predictability of it, using a system like Al in the hydro forum. With that said, I'm really aiming to automate as much as possible so any ideas on best systems for that. DWC does seem great, or nft, I just need to make sure these are not maintenance intensive babysitting type formats for a moderately large grow

I've had pretty good luck with leds though I don't think the plants stretch as much as they would with HID. I'm using both at the moment.

1) You don't want to use autoflowering strains in an indoor setup, and especially NOT in SOG. They are designed to flower independent of the photoperiod they are getting since you have control over the photoperiod by turning your lights on or off, autoflowers are unnecessary.

2) LEDs are still ridiculously expensive for sub-par quality. if you've got the money and space, just invest in 1000w HPS and save the rest of your cash for beer money.

3) Grow Tents are nice for the super lazy. But the money you will spend on it can be cut immensely by a little bit of do it yourself work with some 2x4s and panda film/panda paper.

4) You mentioned Vegetative phase in your second post, but you mentioned SOG in your first. If you're doing Sea of Green, you're not going to be using the same lights for the separate phases. Your mothers will be in one partition of the room (light sealed) under 24h light, and your flowering phase will be under 12/12.

All this for only 16-32 plants? to put it in context, 14 plants in SOG style trimming will fit in a 24"x24" flood and drain table. Talk with your local Hydro store, you can usually get some deals on lighting kits for HID and if you're just starting a grow, they will be willing to cut you a nice deal if you buy everything with them.

I have no opinion on LED's in regards to how they grow, haven't used them at all. If you're running CO2, you need to keep your temps up to maximize it though. Why not run HID and let it do the heating for you? If the LED's don't keep temps up enough, you then have to throw a heater in there. An electric heater is going to burn extra wattage just to produce heat with no light. That factor depends on your surrounding conditions though.

As far as your SoG plan goes, you can't really use autos for that. The principle of SoG is a bunch of clones flowered small. You can't flip an auto, it flowers when it wants. You also can't clone an auto, as it has a set lifespan. In other words: If you clone a 2 week old autoflower, it's clone will flower the same time as the mother. You need photoperiod plants for a SoG.

I looked at the super grow website, and they seem a bit shady. They market a 184w panel and claim it has the same coverage area as a 1000w HID. They also claim that growers are pulling 1g a watt with their lights, like this is special. There are plenty of more experienced growers here that pull a gram per watt with HID. Based on that, to achieve the same GPW (Grams Per Watt) with those 184's in the same area as one 1000w HID, you would need 5.43 184w LED's. So that means to rival the output of a single 1000w HID, you need over $1,000.00 worth of led's. To give you an idea of how much more this is, I spent less than $300 on my 1000w setup. That's bulb, ballast, and reflector; hell, I bought a gallon of high concentration H2O2, 250sqft. of panda film, 16 new 10" baskets, and a big ass bottle of clonex, and a couple of little things, and my total was $400 dollars. So, before you buy those LED's, a cost-benefit analysis would be in order. This is ignoring the obvious marketing in their statements. They tell you nothing about growing style when they make their yield claims. In short, beware of anyone that claims they have the new magic bullet, it's probably just good marketing.

Thanks guys for the replies. When I originally wrote this I was 50 pages into Al's thread. I'm 140 in now and fully understand SoG, such a great thread.

I was thinking the CO2 would e best in a tent since its an entirely sealed unit and I can maintain the proper ppm easier, that was my assumption at least.

my concern with the hps is the electrical draw that would limit scaling up stealthily. Two is probably the max without drawing attention to specific on/off cycles drawing a large % of power.

The heat is a very good question. The HPS I'd have to exhaust since we know that will be hot, my hope with the LEDs was that it would be under 24-26C and I could just thermostat in heat via duct to gas or propane heater.

I was thinking about 30 per tray. Though if I went with a nft system I could do 30 per tray and they'd be on the same feed for. 2 weeks at a time. One big res
That would be more cost effective to automate and monitor.

For the. C02 what temp do you recommend? That was a good point.


So we need some more recent(last year or so) LED exp to see how these new lights are performing.

Thanks guys I hope this thread can help a lot of people just starting out!

Buy hid lights, sure led sounds and looks cool but a hps will get the results you want. You sound a little green so I would start with growing a few plants naturaly before going for a sog. To the guy that says tents are for the lazy I disagree. Lets have a race and see who can taks down and rebuild there box faster. You use your homemade tent ill use my store bought. If you rent your house being and to take down and rebuild fast is needed incase of a emergency. grow tents have alot of helpful features. Only way I wouldnt use them is if I was going full room.

entree said:

Thanks guys for the replies. When I originally wrote this I was 50 pages into Al's thread. I'm 140 in now and fully understand SoG, such a great thread.

I was thinking the CO2 would e best in a tent since its an entirely sealed unit and I can maintain the proper ppm easier, that was my assumption at least.

my concern with the hps is the electrical draw that would limit scaling up stealthily. Two is probably the max without drawing attention to specific on/off cycles drawing a large % of power.

The heat is a very good question. The HPS I'd have to exhaust since we know that will be hot, my hope with the LEDs was that it would be under 24-26C and I could just thermostat in heat via duct to gas or propane heater.

I was thinking about 30 per tray. Though if I went with a nft system I could do 30 per tray and they'd be on the same feed for. 2 weeks at a time. One big res
That would be more cost effective to automate and monitor.

For the. C02 what temp do you recommend? That was a good point.


So we need some more recent(last year or so) LED exp to see how these new lights are performing.

Thanks guys I hope this thread can help a lot of people just starting out!

Click to expand...

For CO2 maximization, you want around 27-29C. That's not from personal experience, I've just had a couple people I talk to on here use it. That was the optimal temps from all the research they did. As far as your power concerns, 1000w of HID or 1000w of LED is going to look the same on your power bill. So I'm not sure what flag you would avoid by using one or the other.

They are less hot id

Hey Guys a good read regarding lights is the Astril LED thread in the LED sub forum. I've got my lighting figured out, they're at about 80% savings over hid currently(250w LED:400w HPS).

Thanks a lot for the co2 info, I look forward to seeing how it improves my yield. I
Am a bit green haha, but I do learn quick, I'm not intimidated by the dwc and nft systems, i just want to plan for the most maintenance free, smooth high yielding system possible, regardless of cost

entree said:

Hey Guys a good read regarding lights is the Astril LED thread in the LED sub forum. I've got my lighting figured out, they're at about 80% savings over hid currently(250w LED:400w HPS).

Thanks a lot for the co2 info, I look forward to seeing how it improves my yield. I
Am a bit green haha, but I do learn quick, I'm not intimidated by the dwc and nft systems, i just want to plan for the most maintenance free, smooth high yielding system possible, regardless of cost

Click to expand...

250/400=0.625=62.5% Where does the added 17.5% savings to make 80% come from? I am genuinely curious. LED's interest me for summer grows, but I haven't looked into them much.

Ah I'm sorry my math was just off. I think in the thread they have the math to back up the 80%. The DIY LEDs seem like a relatively inexpensive way to give it a try.

What do you guys think is the highest yield system for having under 10 plants (for potential legal issues) ? Just some food for thought haha

entree said:

Ah I'm sorry my math was just off. I think in the thread they have the math to back up the 80%. The DIY LEDs seem like a relatively inexpensive way to give it a try.

What do you guys think is the highest yield system for having under 10 plants (for potential legal issues) ? Just some food for thought haha

Click to expand...

A good choice when plant count is a problem, is s scrog. Veg takes a bit longer, but if you do it right it yields well.

Thanks KP I'll start reading more into it.