LED lighting

Hi all,

what is the current opinions on LED lighting (specifically 300W from china) as your main source for the entire grow room? All I've found so far is outdated by a year or two...

I'm thinking coverage, spectrum wavelengths and general efficiency

The folks that could afford the costs of the LED lamps swear by them and get upset the moment someone mentions there opinion of HID lighting being the better choice.

If you are deciding on what kind of lighting to use there are alot of things you should be taking into consideration and there are multiple choices that can work (HID,LED or flourescents). The cost of the fixtures, there efficiency as in lumens per watt, sufficent lumens per sqft, the color spectrum, amount of heat, bulb replacement cost, and an amount others are the things to consider.

HID Pros: the most efficient lumens per watt, long bulb life, yield. Cons: Heat is the big one requiring you to spend extra on ventilation/cooling, balasts/fixtures can be pricey for some getting started.

Flourscent Pros: Price of bulbs, Not much heat so can be closer to plants, buds grown with CFL's are considered by most as better quality. Cons: Not as much yield as an HID, Not as efficient as it either, lower bulb life.

I cant give you alot of info on the pros and cons of the LEDs because I havent used them. However there said to be more lumens per watt. The big con that I can think of is the cost as anyone I know of that has had any bit of success with LEDs all had the high end fixtures another con would be that LEDs will take longer to flower them than an HID.

here is a video that someone linked to me in live chat once. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_CtROw3uiVg

Just have to think things out and decide whats most important to you and go for it there really isnt a wrong answer light choice wise. The answer is what you feel will work best for your budget and situtation.

Syriuslydelyrius said:

HID Pros: the most efficient lumens per watt, long bulb life, yield.

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Not to be rude but that is incorrect.

HID lighting lags far behind LED lighting when it comes to PAR lumens and that is what is most important and not just total lumens since lumens alone take into account all spectrums of light most of which are totally unusable by plants and some that are detrimental to plants, like the spectrums that only produce heat and in the case of HID lighting it is excessive heat.

High quality LED lights use highly efficient 1 watt LED’s, uses only the exact spectrums required for photosynthesis, and uses wide angle directional bulbs.

The 1 watt LED is one of the most efficient light sources in the world (lumens per watt).

By using only the spectrum required, no light is wasted in the spectrums of light that do little or nothing for a plants growth – such as green light.

Lastly the directional LED’s ensure 100% of the light is pointed downwards so they do not rely upon reflective materials to direct the light.

LED lighting far outlasts any other form of grow lights. Quality LED’s will last 80,000+ hours to 105,000+ hours without any degradation of PAR lumens.

As for yield HID lighting only seems to give a higher yield to pot growers than LED lighting because most pot growers do not purchase high quality LED’s because even the low quality ones are expensive and the high quality ones are very expensive and also because they purchase to few LED’s to do the job and when they do purchase LED's they purchase to few to do the job needed to be done.

Several years back I followed an all LED grow thread on another pot site. The member had money to burn and spent THOUSANDS of dollars on LED’s.

He totally covered the area above his plants with LED’s. He attached LED light bars to what could be described as portable posts, 4 X 4’s cut to roughly 5 feet with a square piece of plywood attached to the bottom for a base so they could stand and he ringed his plants with them. He attached 4 LED light bars to other portable posts, one to each side, and placed them between all his plants.

He had the thickest fullest most heavily producing plants I have ever seen pictures of on a pot website and very likely the most impressive plants I have ever seen either on pot websites or in person.

All the way down to the very lowest branches he had big thick hard buds and the plants were frosty from the very top to the very bottom.

His electricity bill dropped a substantial amount due to no longer running HID lights and also because other than to deal with the odor he did not need ventilation so he was running a more cost efficient ventilation system that used less electricity to operate and sucked less air out of his home that he had paid to heat or cool so there was additional saving there since his heat and A/C/ did not have to run as often. But he paid THOUSANDS of dollars to achieve that.

There is no better form of lighting for indoor plant growth known. NASA has had fantastic results using LED’s to grow various types of plants both on earth and in space. The technology has more than been absolutely proven.

The major drawback is the price of even low quality LED’s are out of reach of most pot growers and high quality LED’s are farther out of reach of the budget of most pot growers.

You can purchase an LED light panel that uses 300 watts of electricity and it outperforms a 1000 watt HID grow light and does it while hardly putting out any heat and at an 80% savings in electricity usage. But it will cost you around $1,795.00 depending from who you purchase one from.

For growers with a small closet or cabinet grow there is a small LED light that only uses 80 watts of electricity but it will outperform a 400 watt HID grow light and it will cover an area that is nine square feet. Again it is only for small grows, unless multiple lights are purchased. The drawback is depending on who you purchase from you will pay between $499.00 to $599.00 for each one you purchase.

The problem is the average pot grower just does not have the budget to purchase LED lighting in the numbers needed let alone to buy the highest quality LED lighting to be found.

Look at home many threads and messages in threads are about how growers need to spend as little as possible and many trade information about how Home Depot or someplace has tiny CFL’s for a dollar or a couple dollars less than somewhere else and people jump for joy because they will be saving a dollar or a few dollars. Look how many threads and messages in threads use words like cheap and low cost and less expensive and portions of sentences that state I cannot spend much or I do not have much to spend or I cannot afford or I need to keep the price down etc.

They cannot begin to consider LED lighting and of the few that can most cannot afford high quality LED’s in the numbers needed to give them optimal results.

What happens is they purchase low quality LED’s in to small of numbers to do the job and do it right and then when they are dissatisfied with the results they inaccurately blame LED lighting when they are the ones to blame because they did not purchase high quality and they did not purchase enough of them and they used them poorly because they do not know them and do not understand how to use the to get optimal results.

They blame their failures and or lack of ability to afford quality LED’s in a large enough quantities on the LED lights and inaccurately claim them to be no good, to be inferior lighting and say they are unproven.

If the prices for quality LED lights would drop like plasma screen TV prices have dropped since they were first marketed LED lighting would put all other forms of grow lighting out of business because no other form of grow lighting could come close to being as efficient and as productive as LED’s.

Syriuslydelyrius said:

The folks that could afford the costs of the LED lamps swear by them and get upset the moment someone mentions there opinion of HID lighting being the better choice.

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Just like I suspected someone would come defend there choice being LED's I was simply trying to give whatever usefull information I could so that the they could make there own decision. I didn't nessesarly try to spoon feed them one choice or another.

Brick Top said:

Not to be rude but that is incorrect.

HID lighting lags far behind LED lighting when it comes to PAR lumens and that is what is most important and not just total lumens since lumens alone take into account all spectrums of light most of which are totally unusable by plants and some that are detrimental to plants, like the spectrums that only produce heat and in the case of HID lighting it is excessive heat.

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As I did allready say.

Syriuslydelyrius said:

I cant give you alot of info on the pros and cons of the LEDs because I havent used them. However there said to be more lumens per watt.

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Yes its the light of a certian spectrum that plants use and the others are a waste and heat can become an issue. As I said above that when making your decision you need to take in account the extra cost for a good ventilation system and the cost to run such system. Also the HID lamps have proved themselves as big yeilders out doing everything yield wise even though there "par light spectrum" is broader and more wastfull than LED or CFL.

Brick Top said:

As for yield HID lighting only seems to give a higher yield to pot growers than LED lighting because most pot growers do not purchase high quality LED’s because even the low quality ones are expensive and the high quality ones are very expensive and also because they purchase to few LED’s to do the job and when they do purchase LED's they purchase to few to do the job needed to be done.

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In that video I linked above is a side by side of a 400w hid and a 90w LED fixture thatcosts $550 and sold as an equilivant to a 400w HID. The HID was 21 days sooner to harvest but was only .217g per KWH the LED took longer but was more efficient at .36g per KWH. So yes the LED is more yield per KWH and if the 11year bulb life is accurate in comparison to the HID, you will be spending atleast $500 for replacement bulbs in that 11 years and may also be replacing a balast. Which if your willing to overlook 605grams extra yield in that 11 years with the hps then the LEDs would be a logical choice if you have that large chunk of change to get started and wish to save money over the long run.


However another thing to consider is the length of time to complete a harvest. Over that 11 years the HID will give you 52 harvests and the LED will give you 44 harvests however you have used 320 more KWH per year with the HID and if you pay 15cents per KWH which is an average price it costs $561 more in electric bills for that 11 years. Ok so a 400w hid is $200 +$500 for bulbs + an extra $561 in electric over the LED's = $1261 (over that 11 years) and yeah I am sure you could buy a nice set of LED's for that price, however you need to have that cash up front and not everyone has that in there budget. I would also asume that the quality of a strain under the LED weed will be better than the HID just as it is for the CFL's.

So bud quality, Harvest time, yield, start-up costs, bulb replacement costs, and electric bill costs and your total budget,are all important factors to be considered and how all these relate to your personal situtation or preference.

Yes they will get not only cheaper but better as time goes by so there sure to be a more popular choice in the future. For now they are alot of money up front that not everyone is able to afford. If you are able to then hell more power to ya! Your bulging pockets should get you good results and save you money over the lifespan of the light fixture.

lots of info, cheers.

I'm trying to find out which wavelengths are important enough to add to the panel, you know we've got our 425ish nm, 450nm, 630 and 660nm which all produce peaks on the chlorophyll A chlorophyl B and photosynthesis graphs, has anyone tested enough to know if the 450 and 630nm alone will be effective and would adding the extra two wavelengths give viable yield increases?

Also how much does uv light affect? I've so far heard that maybe it restricts internodal distance? Any thoughts?

Oh and damn, searches abroad are needed, $2000 for 300W? I've been quoted around $700 inc shipping, whats everyones informed opinions on chinese production?

LED lights> cons they dont grow fat ass buds so save cash! and get a HPS, dont listen to the bull shit bollucks about PAR rating, plants use all the light spetrum to grow not the narrow blue and red wavelenth that the bull shit sales banter want you to behlive.

add as meany fairy lights as you like in the red and blue " light intensity is the key" if anyone dissagrees then show me proof of an LED gro that out yields a HPS. i cant get over how gulable some ppl are?? they like to behlive everything the read! (PAR< WTF is that somthing you do in golf) we all want what we cant have - cheap electricity to grow tones of dope, but the reality is if you buy a LED you wil be pissed off big time. ROLF

Chronic200913 said:

Also how much does uv light affect? I've so far heard that maybe it restricts internodal distance? Any thoughts?

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Check this video out about UVB light. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPcpt3Be28o

9inch bigbud said:

LED lights> cons they dont grow fat ass buds so save cash! and get a HPS, dont listen to the bull shit bollucks about PAR rating, plants use all the light spetrum to grow not the narrow blue and red wavelenth that the bull shit sales banter want you to behlive.

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The folks that make those LED lights will never answer the question of "how many lumens" and yeah lumens isnt the greatest way of comparison but everywhere you look for indoor grow info your being told you need X amount of lumens per sq ft. Here is what the LED makers are saying

"Comparing lumens from LED grow lights with that for HID lights is not a valid comparison for gauging plant growth potential. A lumen is a measurement of light that is based on the sensitivity of the human eye. This means that the for same amount of light energy, green light will measure about 10 times the lumens of the blue or red light. Since plants use mostly blue and red light, lumens are not really an appropriate index of plant growing efficiency. We gauge the effectiveness of our lights on actual plant growth."


What they dont tell you is that the best of those 1w high output LEDs is only 87 lumens. Yeah yeah before someone starts to agru 87 lumens of LED light is better than 87 lumens of HID light.

A buddy of mine (experienced grower) ran a 300 w LED panel keeping everything else the same in a small cab that he usually ran his 250 HPS. Results were dissapointing to say the least - 11 plants in scrog just never took off - he got them to flower on 12/12 but they literally stopped doing anything & he chopped after a couple months of no change. I'll give you his phone # if you like, but when you ask about this make sure you have the phone fffffaaaarrrrr away from your ear as it is going to get very LOUD !!

Hey man, was this recent, do you know where they came from? what kind of ratio of wavelengths he had going on? I'm after as much info as poss.

GreatwhiteNorth said:

A buddy of mine (experienced grower) ran a 300 w LED panel keeping everything else the same in a small cab that he usually ran his 250 HPS. Results were dissapointing to say the least - 11 plants in scrog just never took off - he got them to flower on 12/12 but they literally stopped doing anything & he chopped after a couple months of no change. I'll give you his phone # if you like, but when you ask about this make sure you have the phone fffffaaaarrrrr away from your ear as it is going to get very LOUD !!

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Syriuslydelyrius said:

However another thing to consider is the length of time to complete a harvest. Over that 11 years the HID will give you 52 harvests and the LED will give you 44 harvests however you have used 320 more KWH per year with the HID and if you pay 15cents per KWH which is an average price it costs $561 more in electric bills for that 11 years. Ok so a 400w hid is $200 +$500 for bulbs + an extra $561 in electric over the LED's = $1261 (over that 11 years) and yeah I am sure you could buy a nice set of LED's for that price, however you need to have that cash up front and not everyone has that in there budget. I would also asume that the quality of a strain under the LED weed will be better than the HID just as it is for the CFL's.

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The only point you really made for a home grower, someone who grows for their own consumption, is that presently LED&#8217;s are not cost effective and that is something I have said many times and alluded to when I said if their price would drop like plasma screen TV&#8217;s prices have dropped they would put every other type of grow lighting out of business, and they would.

For an indoor commercial grower the difference in harvest time over 11 years can total a good bit of money but in those 11 years there is the risk of being discovered because of high energy usage and also heat a signature of your home giving you away if you are somewhat suspected and LEO checks for heat. LED&#8217;s use so little electricity that you would never come close to using the same amount of electricity as HID lighting and they put off such an extremely low amount of heat there would be no heat signature to be found.

Factor in the price of lawyers and of doing time and the number of years of crops lost while someone sits in the gray-bar motel into your equation and then see which form of lighting is more cost effective. Only by assuming that someone will never fall under suspicion can you say that HID lighting would still be better.

So bud quality, Harvest time, yield, start-up costs, bulb replacement costs, and electric bill costs and your total budget,are all important factors to be considered and how all these relate to your personal situtation or preference.

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You could add ballast replacement to your list because it is highly likely that over 11 years someone would need to replace a ballast or two or more depending on how many lights they run and how much they run them. That would up the cost a fair bit.


So is security and your freedom and again you have to assume that someone will never come under suspicion to say that is not a concern and anyone and everyone that has ever grown knows that security is very important, that is unless they were a moron or something.

If you were a large commercial grower would you consider exchanging 44 harvests over 11 years to not spend 11 years in prison?

Yes they will get not only cheaper but better as time goes by so there sure to be a more popular choice in the future. For now they are alot of money up front that not everyone is able to afford. If you are able to then hell more power to ya! Your bulging pockets should get you good results and save you money over the lifespan of the light fixture.

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Again that is part of what I have said, that quality LED&#8217;s are out of the price range of most growers.

As for myself I do not use them presently but I have been giving serious consideration to moving and if I do I will then go all LED&#8217;s. I could buy them now but my home is not one that is laid out in a way that is very good for growing and if I move I will buy or build one that is much better for it. Not to go into it in a large way since I am retired and I have never and will never grow to sell but it would just give me a setup where I could keep mothers and use clones and have different rooms and possibly even keep a few males and play with breeding which I think would be fun. I just cannot do that here so I am not going to make any changes in what I do until I change where I am doing it but if and when I do I will go all LED&#8217;s for sure.

Whatever man.. You can agrue this all you want, I could careless what you or anyone else uses for light I was just trying to provide info for which anyone could use to get there own decision.

Yeah so what if the heat from a HID can make it easier for THE MAN to bust you on an antiquated law some countrys have that I am sure wont be arround 10 years from now. Its risk/reward my friend willing to take that risk for that 11 years and it could pay off big or land you in the clink. Do the math and judge for yourself if you want to take that risk then take it, if you want to play it safe with a larger start up cost but lower electric and no worry of excess heat in return for less yeild each run and less runs over the years then go for it buddy at least you had info to make that decision with.

Its not like I came on here and said use HID its DA BEST as you seem to be doing for LED's.

Chronic200913 said:

Hey man, was this recent, do you know where they came from? what kind of ratio of wavelengths he had going on? I'm after as much info as poss.

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Na, not sure of the particulars, he did get them from HTG and they were pretty spendy, but just never came through with the growth he was used to with his MH/HPS set up.

Here are a couple of pic's of his plants at 4 months (from seed).

If you go for the LED, keep me in the loop & please let me know how it turns out.