LED lighting and deficiencies

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by DesertHydro, Apr 4, 2017.

    Silver or lead

    Silver or lead Well-Known Member

    I couldn't give any sage advice, I'm still a newbie. I'm growing in dirt, (off brand but comparable to promix ultimate organic) and have issues on week 3 when they get done stretching and start packing.

    I'm on my 3rd run and stuff is getting better, much of my problems were underwatering. Even fixing that I still got issues at week 3, though not as bad.

    I decided to start liquid kelp (growmore) and can see a really big difference so far.

    My other nutrients is a very sparing dose (150 ppml of miracle grow 18-6-12 (ya i know, but it's on hand and it does work).

    Don't know if this helps but maybe try the kelp. My plant are way happier, I'm trying a perpetual and can see when this made the rotation.

    I have started adding calmag also just because of the discussion here. I'll know more in a couple of weeks. I run ro water so it not like it's gonna hurt.

    It stands to reason that if cobs require more calmag then maybe there is another micronutrient that is also needed in greater quantities.

    DesertHydro Well-Known Member

    bumping this thread since the issue is happening again! same thing but i have my EC higher and its still happening! i think i am gonna foliar the calmag and see what happens. may try raising the lights some more too.
    IMG_2079.JPG IMG_2080.JPG IMG_2081.JPG IMG_2082.JPG

    DesertHydro Well-Known Member

    oh and my ec goes as follows- 1.1 ec part a, then to 1.8 ec after part b and then mag to 2.1. ph to 5.8
    Los Reefersaurus

    Los Reefersaurus Well-Known Member

    I would suggest not using cal mag, just use mag, Cal Can do some weird things to your leaves, not very often but it can happen. I theories that if you need emergency Cal folar fed, you might try Cal-cloride, I don't know if this is a good idea or not but Cal cloride is completely desolvable in water and cal nitrate and cal carbonate isnt so much.
    JUst Mag is the safest

    captainmorgan Well-Known Member

    Looks like you have multiple deficiencies. These may not be from a lack of something and rather a PH problem or too much of something else causing a lock out. You may be compounding your problems by upping things, too much cal will cause a mag lockout for example. If your running Jacks 321 it will have good amounts of cal and mag already. Using products like Mamoth P make some nutrients more available so you usually lower your ppms when using them. 2.1 is a pretty heavy feed but that is strain dependent, I run 1-1.1 in my setup.. Once you have multiple defs and they have caused damage it can be hard to pin down and you could be chasing your own tail,some damage won't recover so you can't tell if what your doing is right or not.
    Last edited: May 13, 2017

    captainmorgan Well-Known Member

    If it was me, I would check your soil PH first. If that's ok then I would flush with 3 times as much water as the pot size,RO water if you have it. If your using Jacks 321 I would use only that and lower your ppms and cut out any extra additives.

    DesertHydro Well-Known Member

    I have already done all that. I was experiencing deficiencies like crazy at the standard 1.2 ec rate. The problem was only getting worse and worse very rapidly. From there I set the PPM to 1.8 and things got significantly better extremely fast. Now in about the third week in they are starting to show signs again. When I tried lowering the EC originally and everything went to hell really fast so I decided to try raising the EC and that has made the most significant difference. i think i will foliar the calmag as to not throw off the nutrient ratios in the res and go from there. i think we are all on the same page in thinking that it looks like a cal/mag issue for the most part?
    Greengenes707 likes this.

    captainmorgan Well-Known Member

    The second pic looks like a zinc def. Sometimes you can only stabilize the plant and get no real recovery depending on the def and it's damage.
    crocodile og

    crocodile og Active Member

    What is your runoff EC? Looks similar to what I had to deal with a few years ago.

    DesertHydro Well-Known Member

    ec is 2.1 now. went up from 1.2 and things got better i just dont know how far i can push things lol. i am not getting any sign of toxicity as of yet.
    Greengenes707 likes this.

    DesertHydro Well-Known Member

    getting a new ph meter soon to make sure that isnt the culprit. im using a cheap one that i got a while back and i need to get another bluelab meter when i go to my new shop. i will also be getting the 3 in 1 meter that is always on and mounted in the res
    crocodile og likes this.

    Psyphish Well-Known Member

    Deficiencies are rare IME. Everytime I've had them, they've been because of root level pests. Springtails or root aphids, difficult to get rid off them in coco coir.

    I also agree that LEDs don't produce healthy plants as easily as CMH.
    MrTwist1 and OneHitDone like this.

    DesertHydro Well-Known Member

    I'm super baked and can't stop laughing at tropic thunder. That has nothing to do with this thread, I know. Carry on
    MrTwist1 and crocodile og like this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    I also think you should try the magnesium first. Maybe a light epsom salts dose.
    The discoloured leaves won't repair themselves.
    There appear to be many things going on though.

    Very few people's LED project are not an outright fail still. I'd say in the high 90%.
    This is the feedback I'm getting in the local industry.

    Overblown marketing still sells shitty LEDs in things like the Mars range, they are even less efficient than HID lighting.
    crocodile og

    crocodile og Active Member

    Good idea. PH could be the issue. For me it was rising EC in the medium/runoff. I found keeping the runoff close to the input EC worked. If you make sure to have plenty of runoff after each irrigation you can push it pretty hard. Just make sure not to let the medium go over 2.4 EC. I found most US strains to be less tolerant to high EC than most Dutch varieties.
    MrTwist1 likes this.

    coreywebster Well-Known Member

    You might want to try raising PH to 6.2 ish. Mag and Cal is better absorbed higher end
    Be careful using calmag products as a foliar, they are both nitrates.
    I would raise the PH and see how it goes then maybe think about Epsom salt foliar to treat the Mag and worry about the Cal later.

    MrTwist1 Well-Known Member

    One of my favourites for sure :fire:

    Also I agree with earlier posters to go easy on the Cal because that can really lock Mag out if it's too high.
    crocodile og likes this.

    CobKits Well-Known Member Rollitup Advertiser

    curious what type of tech they are using

    around here few people go back to HID

    Ingvar Member

    May be too late for this harvest, but figured I'd chime in just in case someone sees this in the future.

    That looks like a straight up Mag deficiency. Look at this chart https://www.alchimiaweb.com/blogen/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/KRuFnY4-1022x1024.jpg

    The steps typically taken for fixing it:

    1) Do a good flush to get the medium free of all built up nutes.
    2) Feed half strength and add a Mag supplement. pH to at least 6.1 (or you can go up to 6.5 for even better uptake)
    3) Don't look at old leaves, they won't likely improve. Look at new foliage to see if the problem is fixed.

    Good luck man!

    bakedPotatoe Active Member

    Are they all the very same plant cloned?
    ive had this issue not so .,long ago...under a 400hps
    In coco,put in calmag just about fixed the issue with 1 plant but the other was near death,i tried just bout everything...
    And i just upped the calmag a bit more and it responded,some times its just the breed.
    Mind you the 2 plants that had the issues where 2 different strains getting fed from the same water....
    Others had zero issues...

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