LED Lighting 4 Commercial Grow Ops

LED panels have been around for over 10 years now and each generation continues to improve on previous versions. While the hobbyists are getting it what is it going to take for the LED panel manufacturers to really compete with HID in these larger commercial grow ops? Any thoughts on what the LED industry might do better to put even a small dent in commercial HID sales? With 'newer' technologies such as Plasma, DE-HPS, CMH, Induction competing for this market perhaps it is time for the LED industry come together or short of that a single manufacturer to point to licensed commercial cannabis gardens grow ops where the customer chose LED over HID and why they would do so again if given the choice between the two technologies.

hm. Doesnt Commercial grow op mean = greenhouse. Id imagine with Led you could have a Problem as the footprint might be much bigger compared to hps blocking the valuable sunlight

hard to dethrone hps in commercial operations............it's VERY reliable over a decade/just bulb changes

No one cared for cmh due to only low wattage options available until recently. Philips agro line is still just only 315w, won't do shit twenty feet above the canopy. Plasma is not a viable alternative because of price/complexity/weight ATM. Induction has a waaaaaay to go until considered an option as well, people still question it's tech/intensity; let's be honest most think it's a fluoro, tough stigma to shake.

Led is an unstoppable force which just keeps improving per year............other techs don't have the same $$$/research behind it no question.......it's an inevitable outcome for horticultural industry.

Cree is astounded at the level of praise/consumer absorption of their current household bulbs(talked to a rep at HD), and their in the works for entering the horti-market(got zero info/ ETA of product release, I begged ), it will be the end of all these small led grow light "manufacturers". I mean the CREE brand is almost main stream now and synonymous for quality/best product. The medical mj scene in a country as large as ours has the BIG sharks smelling blood, It was only a matter of time for them to join. Their infrastructure is set-up to undercut all other companies using their products obviously.

I could be wrong, but I think cree horti-products will be a "game changer" ..........Philips hasn't because of worry (self-cannibalism) for their profitable HID division.

Chaz I know you have been asking and I am not at the liberty to publicly state the name and what not...but in Denver currently, the lights are being implemented in half of a facility. Once some I'm allowed to talk about it, I'll get you all the info..I did post a pic a while ago, but all I can say at this point...just know that it is going on.

lax123 said:

hm. Doesnt Commercial grow op mean = greenhouse. Id imagine with Led you could have a Problem as the footprint might be much bigger compared to hps blocking the valuable sunlight

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Commercial is indoor too. But you raise a valid point about blocking sun. That is the main reason for the at600long...narrow like the trusses/struts it hangs on that are already blocking some light.

Commercial LED Grow in Colorado
[video=youtube;xm8vgHznTkg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm8vgHznTkg[/video]

Good video BK! Exactly what I think the LED CannaAG industry needs to see. This video was shot in 2011 and in Colorado before the laws existed like we have now. Today there are hundreds if not thousands of licenses being issued for commercial cultivation and the time for making excuses is over. LED as an industry needs to make a compelling case for why they need to be taken as a serious contender for these farmers and their investors. If I was ProSource I would do a followup video that shows these same lights have been in use for the last 3 years and the crop production is as good today as it was then. That type of follow up is hard to dispute or ignore.

While everyone appreciates a good single lamp side by side I think the energy efficient grow lighting industry as a whole needs to provide compelling evidence, even anonymously, with images and/or video that supports larger scale installations as a legitimate alternative to HID setups. Until that occurs these commercial growers simply won't take the risks and LED remains the domain of the hobbyist grower.

Why would you go complete indoor with roof in a large grow op, is electricity almost for free in the us? Glass roof and switching light intensity on as needed, id think...and Focus additionally on intracanopy lighting.

lax123 said:

Why would you go complete indoor with roof in a large grow op, is electricity almost for free in the us? Glass roof and switching light intensity on as needed, id think...and Focus additionally on intracanopy lighting.

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We are dealing with a "different" crop here.........theft is an issue with the current market price.............^^^and I don't believe that video by prosource, their products are really outdated/overpriced by 2014 standards.

lax123 said:

Why would you go complete indoor with roof in a large grow op, is electricity almost for free in the us? Glass roof and switching light intensity on as needed, id think...and Focus additionally on intracanopy lighting.

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I just finished phase one of a project in Canada where a licensed commercial cannabis grower put 3,700 lights in. They would have loved to had used a controlled environment greenhouse but the hurdle they face is security. A greenhouse does not meet the considerable security requirements that Health Canada and the RCMP require of these operations. The upside for the grower/investor is that there are currently no plant limits with these licenses so as the interior grow area spaces are going to just keep getting larger as demand increases. As a result the need for energy efficient lighting that meets crop production values are going to increase as well.

I really don't have an allegiance to induction lighting. If there is another energy efficient system, such as LED, out there that can meet large scale crop production goals. It's a business and I, like the growers/investors who build these facilities are going to decide what lights are best for the plants and also represent the greatest ROI. What P said earlier about 'LED being an unstoppable force which just keeps improving per year............other techs don't have the same $$$/research behind it no question.......it's an inevitable outcome for horticultural industry' may or may not be true especially when you consider his earlier statement that it's 'hard to dethrone hps in commercial operations............it's VERY reliable over a decade/just bulb changes'. The reasons to consider and select any alternative to HID has to be based on rock solid evidence.

When I meet a client I like to discuss all of their options for lighting. As it stands now there is not alot out there that shows LED's being used in larger installations as a complete alternative to HID. Like I said in my previous post it's great that ProSource puts up this video but at 3 years old there needs to be a followup which aims to capture market attention based on those lights having been in use since the video was shot.

So give me some ammo here. With Cannabis production being mainstreamed there has got to be more the industry can point to than lightweight references such as these:


Basil by Lumigrow

TruLight making a push: http://www.prweb.com/releases/201304/commercial-grow-lights/prweb10667576.htm

Have you kids seen this vid yet? Yes "experimental" more than commercial but still a powerful demo of the potential of what Illumitex and LEDs can do commercially. There's a lot of statements made in this video that can be argued, like one can say the X5 is not using green to drive photosynthesis AS MUCH as letting astronauts see in better light or some statements made about HPS hoods but whatever it does show the level of commitment one needs to get some kind of commercial grow going with LED. LED is better suited for assisting with growing commercially, see all the tulip and flower companies dumping HPS's in their greenhouses, but it's not like the HPS's were being used as primary lights in greenhouses that far north as much as for manipulating time in a place where sunlight is at a premium in the Northern winter months. LED is poised to be a player. Maybe that's why CREE has been waiting to get in the horti ring. They're waiting for the tech to mature to a certain level I believe. I would think for the foreseeable future, LED is better suited in the germanation/vegging department as the sole source of light in a commercial grow. My 2 cents. http://growmaker.com/new-led-technology-with-danny-danko/

^^^^^ ding ding ding....................Frany is spot on.

I knew CREE was going to dive into this scene sooner rather than later when I saw this HID retrofit recently released by them @ a good price point IMO

their cobs are arguably the best ATM, passive cooled and low production cost......If I was a betting man..ha, i see them going in this direction with their horti-products BUT I'm a terrible gambler so who knows

They cut their plants way too early in that video

Have you kids seen this vid yet? Yes "experimental" more than commercial but still a powerful demo of the potential of what Illumitex and LEDs can do commercially.

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I had seen this video when it first came out about a year ago and thought it showed the technology well. The grower is obviously attuned to the benefits of growing with LED over HPS for commercial crop production but now that it's almost been a year, where have the follow up video's been? At the time DD shot this the grower indicated it had only been his second run and he expected his yields to go up another 20%. He was within weeks of finishing that run and with another year having gone by he would have had another 3 runs since the video was shot. Where are the followups? Hell had this been an RIU forum, perhaps a GG thread, we would have had details and conclusions that are sorely lacking from this HT production.

The other thing that strikes me as problematic with this video is the amount of work and initial expense going into this setup. For the commercial grower the time is now for alternatives to HID. They are investing boatloads of $$ on the infrastructure designed to support these operations. This includes designs that center around HID loads, the HVAC loads and emergency backup power generation for HID systems that should not be specified in the first place if there are better alternatives.

I hope it gets figured out soon. Me n a buddy are going commercial by the end of the year. Opening up a couple dispensaries. Right now we are leaning towards inda gro. Not sure if we are doing it in Cali or Colorado. I'm in Cali and he is in Colorado.

What's shaping up in these legal states is that the utilities are giving the same incentives to the commercial cultivation centers that they do to any large sq footage/kWhr customers. If you can prove a watts/sq st savings that will translate into incentive $$ back into the growers pocket. In CO with XCEL energy if you go with an IG 420 vs a 1000 watt HID it means $350 per light. BCHydro made it $300 per light on the project I just wrapped up. So the time is really right to motivate the market towards alternatives to HID. That continues to beg the question with all of these opportunities for an alternative lighting breakout in commercial cannabis production, why are we having to rely on year old video's by High Times and forum side by sides to make their case?

from what I have seen you will need to run almost as many watts of LED to effectively cover the same footprint size as the same watts of MH or HPS.
Once you consider the price per watt of HPS & MH compared to LED, it becomes obvious why many commercial growers would be reluctant to wade into that kind of expense.

PhatPhuker said:

from what I have seen you will need to run almost as many watts of LED to effectively cover the same footprint size as the same watts of MH or HPS.
Once you consider the price per watt of HPS & MH compared to LED, it becomes obvious why many commercial growers would be reluctant to wade into that kind of expense.

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sounds like you haven't seen much led grows then

hyroot said:

sounds like you haven't seen much led grows then

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You hit the nail on the head. This is precisely why we need to see more of these commercial grows with LED's. If the larger projects adopt them the prices are going to come down as manufacturers gear up to produce them in greater numbers. Ultimately it should make the high end panels accessible to the smaller grower. The IG lights are not inexpensive to build, especially in the USA, and it is because there are larger projects purchasing them it definitely helps keep the prices where they are at, even when raw materials costs continue to rise.

Bottom line there should be a multi-manufacturer media blitzkrieg (screw the infighting) going on that the SSL industry can point to and say this technology deserves your consideration now, not tomorrow, or things are not going to change in the minds of these growers.

Hi Chaz,

I read that you're looking for some referrals for greenhouse and indoor operations for LED lights. Adam Gifford of CoGrowCo has experience with LED lights and is rep'ing for a greenhouse LED manufacturer - LumiGrow.

http://cogrowco.com/

He's running and setting up commercial operations in Colorado.

Give him a call if you're looking for opinions. I believe he went through a similar exercise of evaluating lights and could probably offer some tidbits of knowledge. Adam Gifford, 443.510.9708.

Cheers,

Sow

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Thanks for that referral but what I really need is a publicly available depiction of LED lights being installed in state licensed commercial cannabis cultivation centers, preferably above 10K sq ft as an alternative to HID. This is really for the SSL industry as a whole to come to grips with where they are missing in market share if all that is out there is 1-3 year old videos and side by sides performed by hobbyists. Perhaps Adam will see this as an opportunity to publicly respond to the thread I started and give us some solid evidence of where LumiGrow is being used in these applications.