TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
There is HEAVY debate on HTG right now, lots of bad stories on here, like i said i have lots of links let me know if you need any.
LED - FLOURO- MH or HPS ???
- Thread starter rak1
- Start date
DrFever
New Member
find some used 1000 watters and get 2 lights you will need a exhaust fan so two 1000 watt ballests with hordilux superblue bulbs MH AND HPS in one bulb and dude you will watch before your eyes a AMAZING grow so really how much this goin to cost you well lets round it off
2 ballests 400.00
2 reflecters 50.00
2 hordilux superblue 550.00
exhaust fan 150 - 300.00
carbon filter ( Good one ) 500.00
alminum dryer ducting 25.00 for air in to floor and also some for your exhaust fan
food for plants and misc 200.00
so 2000.00 and you got a serious grow room
2 ballests 400.00
2 reflecters 50.00
2 hordilux superblue 550.00
exhaust fan 150 - 300.00
carbon filter ( Good one ) 500.00
alminum dryer ducting 25.00 for air in to floor and also some for your exhaust fan
food for plants and misc 200.00
so 2000.00 and you got a serious grow room
rak1
Active Member
Yeah Thanks, I could use them.
I been seeing alot of things on there as we speak on HTG. Im not loaded and im on a budget.
I was thinking about 4 - 4ft T5's with 4 of the 5000 Lumen bulbs in each light, so that would be 80,000 lumens plus adding a 400 or 600w HPS / HM in the middle.
Im not looking for a high electric bill either, would this be a Huge cost to run?
Thanks
Also, would a setup like this do pretty good as far as growing good crops?
I been seeing alot of things on there as we speak on HTG. Im not loaded and im on a budget.
I was thinking about 4 - 4ft T5's with 4 of the 5000 Lumen bulbs in each light, so that would be 80,000 lumens plus adding a 400 or 600w HPS / HM in the middle.
Im not looking for a high electric bill either, would this be a Huge cost to run?
Thanks
Also, would a setup like this do pretty good as far as growing good crops?
DrFever
New Member
well IMO for the size of your room min 1 1000 watt would be sufficient thats like 40.00 cost to operate
seriously veg with t5's will be like watching paint dry hahahaha i clone with t5's and only that as well 99 percent of real growers do
heres a pic from a 3" clone 14 day later goin into flower doin this with t'5s will take months prob so do what you like
seriously veg with t5's will be like watching paint dry hahahaha i clone with t5's and only that as well 99 percent of real growers do
heres a pic from a 3" clone 14 day later goin into flower doin this with t'5s will take months prob so do what you like
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TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
I think you need a veg room, but that is neither here nor there. Go with the 600 much better light for the electricity usage. As far as cost to run it, seems like you are in the states, i will assume the 48 connected, so you should be paying 10-15 cents a Kilowatt hour. That is 1000 watts for 1 hour. Ballasts use about 10% more than the rated wattage, a 1000 watt runs close to 1100 watts.
you can get 8 bulbs t5's for very near the same price as the 4 bulb, you would be surprised but imo you should consider 2 1000s at least, if not 4 600's obviously that can get expensive, but that is what you should be looking at for light. Remember all lumens are initial (brand new bulb right at the bulb), you lose a lot quickly as you have to raise the light etc.
Links: http://plantlightinghydroponics.com/
If you know electrical http://www.growsmarthydroponics.com/HPS-1000w-Ready-to-Grow-Ballast-Kit-CLEARANCE_p_1395.html other deals there too.
https://www.horticulturesource.com/
If you don't mind a loud fan this is what i use, a little diy and it is awesome untouchable price. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=ventilator
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/237610-best-deals-thread-post-best.html Start at the last page and go backwards.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/342580-best-deals-thread-updated-version.html
you can get 8 bulbs t5's for very near the same price as the 4 bulb, you would be surprised but imo you should consider 2 1000s at least, if not 4 600's obviously that can get expensive, but that is what you should be looking at for light. Remember all lumens are initial (brand new bulb right at the bulb), you lose a lot quickly as you have to raise the light etc.
Links: http://plantlightinghydroponics.com/
If you know electrical http://www.growsmarthydroponics.com/HPS-1000w-Ready-to-Grow-Ballast-Kit-CLEARANCE_p_1395.html other deals there too.
https://www.horticulturesource.com/
If you don't mind a loud fan this is what i use, a little diy and it is awesome untouchable price. http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?category=&q=ventilator
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/237610-best-deals-thread-post-best.html Start at the last page and go backwards.
https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/342580-best-deals-thread-updated-version.html
DrFever
New Member
exactly after you spend 35 + per 4 foot t5 buying 4 of them as u said thats the price of a brand new 1000 watt set up less bulb
i find it halairious why ppl would even consider buying 400 or 600 ballest and spending double just for ballest less bulbs
seriously it all comes down proper ventilation and lumens
with a lower end 1000 watt bulb your getting 110,000 lumens just goin to take you alot longer and more power with t'5s etc to get the the final result and thats yield
TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
Yes, t5s for veg, hps or hps mh combo for flower. I wouldn't spend the kind of money that one guy was talking on bulbs, start cheap, let the plants pay for improvments.
I didn't provide a link for it but hydrofarm offers an open 1000 watt ballast for like $135, and plantlighting (the first link) has hydrofarm hoods for good prices. But for your size grow you need hids except for veg.
DRfever is right, i actually found my bulb for $30 and its 150,000 initial lumens.
I didn't provide a link for it but hydrofarm offers an open 1000 watt ballast for like $135, and plantlighting (the first link) has hydrofarm hoods for good prices. But for your size grow you need hids except for veg.
DRfever is right, i actually found my bulb for $30 and its 150,000 initial lumens.
DrFever
New Member
imo why spend 450.00 for a 600 watt ballest when you can get 1000 watt for 200.00 BUDGET RIGHT just get one 1000 watt and start from there master your growing dude keep it simple but an you will see results faster
Grow a BUD not a Booger Nugget
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DrFever
New Member
1 light dude and get good reflective white paper for walls and get a exhaust fan and our set IMO cost wise thats your only option
T5's are great i use them but there weak for veggin a plant here are my t'5s
)Attachments
TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
Not sure if we are all talking about the same room here but if you want to use your entire 12x12 room you are going to need at least 4 1000's. Not saying you need to start with that, but that would be the minimal light that you would want for that size room. That is still a 6x6 footprint for each light which is really stretching it. For full production you would want 3 rows of 3 1000 watts each, for a total of 9 lights, but that is a lot of everything. But start with whatever you want, may want to make some moveable walls, and i would say panda plastic for the walls, paper will degrade if gotten wet, plastic will not and is cheap and light tight.
Also, i do not use single t5's to veg, i use 2 8 bulb units, much better lighting than his pic.
Also, i do not use single t5's to veg, i use 2 8 bulb units, much better lighting than his pic.
DrFever
New Member
lol was makin it simple for him with the white paper for walls should of just said mylar either way he also could invest in light movers but IMO hell with proper relective walls pending on how many plants he wants to grow he can grow 15 plants while moving them around with success i have grown 20 plants under 1 1000 watt got pretty good results
rak1
Active Member
To cover 12x12 I would need 9 1000w HSP/HM lights?
TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
To fully cover it with good enough light for growth everywhere. You could consider light movers also, but your room is huge, what most of us dream of. That is why i say i think you need a veg room, i wouldn't want to harvest a 12x12 room full of plants at once, that would take 2 guys 4 weeks. LoL. Good luck just trying to show what would really be required for true covereage.
Shwagbag
Well-Known Member
My advice. Disregard everything you've read in this thread and keep learning before you tackle something of this scale. Browse the forum and read old posts from resourceful people, buy a nice book. Learn about light spectrums, lumens, fans, filters, humidity, light coverage, inverse square law... Learn about SCROG, SOG, LST, PH, power consumption etc. Most of what I have learned from this site has come from previous posts, many of which are from members that are no longer active here. There is a wealth of information within this site and if you have a question, chances are it has already been asked.
What lighting you need is correlated to how much space you want to use. How much space you want to use is correlated to how large you want to grow your plants. How large you grow your plants is correlated to how you want to cultivate. How you want to cultivate is correlated to what best suits your time, space and wallet.
This is an awfully large space to jump into with little experience or knowledge. Try something small(er) scale before you throw your money at something and end up regretting it. Get yourself some T5's for veg and a 600W HPS. You don't have to be an expert before you grow, but you want to have a good grasp on fundamentals.
Whatever you do, remember that a felony sucks and good luck!
What lighting you need is correlated to how much space you want to use. How much space you want to use is correlated to how large you want to grow your plants. How large you grow your plants is correlated to how you want to cultivate. How you want to cultivate is correlated to what best suits your time, space and wallet.
This is an awfully large space to jump into with little experience or knowledge. Try something small(er) scale before you throw your money at something and end up regretting it. Get yourself some T5's for veg and a 600W HPS. You don't have to be an expert before you grow, but you want to have a good grasp on fundamentals.
Whatever you do, remember that a felony sucks and good luck!
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
the kind of light(hps/mh/cfl/etc) doesnt matter. at effing all. what you should be concentrating on is the kelvin spectrum (sometimes given in nanometer wavelenghts readings) and the lumen out put. you should also consider the relative heat output from each bulb respectively.
if i may, let me back up my statements. this is definitive, there has been study after study after study regarding specific wavelengths of light that plants absorb. (keep in mind wavelength is the same as Kelvin rating). these "useful" wavelengths are different for every plant(plants in the tropics get more direct sun(less red light) than plants near the poles(more red, due to the angle of the sun's rays))
but anyways, there is a very intuitive reason for why plants use blue and red light.
if you look at the visible light spectrum from left to right, you should realize the colors roy. g. biv. red to the left, green in the middle, and blue to the right. unfortunately i dont have a chalkboard i can draw on to show you what the graph looks like on this forum. but if you can imagine a graph in which amount absorbed is the y axis and wavelength(color) is the x axis. you will see that plants take up a fair amount of the red spectrum, hardly any green, and a fair amount of blue spectrum. the reason why we see a leaf as green is due to the fact that green light is reflected, not absorbed, green light bounces back.
so that was pretty long winded and didnt have much to do with anything, but it is interesting, but is a necessary precursor for the following:
studies have shown that different wavelengths of absorbed light are indeed responsible for the expression of separate hormones, obviously, just like when you got your first pube, your hormone expression was changing and putting your body through the morphological changes associated with puberty. the same in plants. blue light is associated with the summer and IN marijuana associated with vegetative growth. many plants have different genetics that allows for blue light to stimulate flowering. in the fall, you may think of this as when you turned 10, the angle of the sun produces less blue light and a cooler, less energetic red light. the red light sets off a series of second messenger gene cascades( youll have to look that one up, its a whole other topic) that are responsible for proteins and hormones involved in flower formation.
this is the important part to keep in mind, even in nature when cannabis is flowering, it is still absorbing blue light, most notably around noon(obviously), both spectrums are used during flowering, just like vegetating. the most notable difference between the effects of blue and red light is that, IN SEEDLINGS and IMMATURE plants, red light stimulate the plant to stretch, no matter how close the plant is to the source, red light is conducive to shade so the plant grows to get out of the shade. (thats just a neat side note)
what really gets a plant going in the flowering cycle, is not necessarily the type of light, but the cycle of the mysterious TOC protein/hormone oscillation. although many studies show that in mature plants, excessive red light, produces larger flowers mainly due to red light striking appropriate red light phototropins that release more of the "flowering" hormone(s)
if i may, let me back up my statements. this is definitive, there has been study after study after study regarding specific wavelengths of light that plants absorb. (keep in mind wavelength is the same as Kelvin rating). these "useful" wavelengths are different for every plant(plants in the tropics get more direct sun(less red light) than plants near the poles(more red, due to the angle of the sun's rays))
but anyways, there is a very intuitive reason for why plants use blue and red light.
if you look at the visible light spectrum from left to right, you should realize the colors roy. g. biv. red to the left, green in the middle, and blue to the right. unfortunately i dont have a chalkboard i can draw on to show you what the graph looks like on this forum. but if you can imagine a graph in which amount absorbed is the y axis and wavelength(color) is the x axis. you will see that plants take up a fair amount of the red spectrum, hardly any green, and a fair amount of blue spectrum. the reason why we see a leaf as green is due to the fact that green light is reflected, not absorbed, green light bounces back.
so that was pretty long winded and didnt have much to do with anything, but it is interesting, but is a necessary precursor for the following:
studies have shown that different wavelengths of absorbed light are indeed responsible for the expression of separate hormones, obviously, just like when you got your first pube, your hormone expression was changing and putting your body through the morphological changes associated with puberty. the same in plants. blue light is associated with the summer and IN marijuana associated with vegetative growth. many plants have different genetics that allows for blue light to stimulate flowering. in the fall, you may think of this as when you turned 10, the angle of the sun produces less blue light and a cooler, less energetic red light. the red light sets off a series of second messenger gene cascades( youll have to look that one up, its a whole other topic) that are responsible for proteins and hormones involved in flower formation.
this is the important part to keep in mind, even in nature when cannabis is flowering, it is still absorbing blue light, most notably around noon(obviously), both spectrums are used during flowering, just like vegetating. the most notable difference between the effects of blue and red light is that, IN SEEDLINGS and IMMATURE plants, red light stimulate the plant to stretch, no matter how close the plant is to the source, red light is conducive to shade so the plant grows to get out of the shade. (thats just a neat side note)
what really gets a plant going in the flowering cycle, is not necessarily the type of light, but the cycle of the mysterious TOC protein/hormone oscillation. although many studies show that in mature plants, excessive red light, produces larger flowers mainly due to red light striking appropriate red light phototropins that release more of the "flowering" hormone(s)
OldGrowth420
Well-Known Member
if you go to your local petco you can buy a bulb for every kelvin you can imagine.
emulating nature will most always be the best deal. you make a good point, where in the world does ANY organism receive that much time under the sun? no where.
as far as kelvins(or nm), the best way to do it, if money were no option, and if you could find ALL of the proper bulbs, i would try to find bulbs between 1800-3000, i would go with 5 of these, at 1000 lumen apiece. try to get one 1800, a 2000, a 2500, 2700, 3000. (you get the idea.) you really would see major benefit if you could get all of these spectrums together.
in addition to the lower end of the kelvins, you should also try to find 1000 lumen bulbs between 5000-8000, pick 5 bulbs at increments similar to the other ones i just gave as an example.
ideally you should be shooting for 10,000 to 15,000 total lumens from the mixed spectrum, excluding green light which is about 4000k.
on a super sunny summer day, the sun spits out between 10,000 and 25,000 lumens per sq ft depending on ozone, cloud coverage, smog, and a few others things.
more lumens, will make your plants produce more, just as long as the heat is kept in check.
so a recap, mix the spectrums as much as possible, exclude green light~3500k-4500k, shoot for 10,000 lumen or more, if you can. you will still get growth with less lumen, just ultra, ultra slow.
from biology lesson
TruenoAE86coupe
Moderator
What size plants? you could do 20 sog plants in as little as like 3x3, but you would take the whole room to do 20 trees. If you did 20 plants that started to flower around 2-2.5' tall, i think 2 1000s would work. Everyone has diff opinions on this, but i have done that many under 1 1000 and an 8 light t5, pulled down about 2 lbs. I would say 1-2 1000 watts. 1000 watts are not as high a lumen/watt as the 600s but i think would work better in your space. plus they are cheaper per watt.
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