LED DIY (planning, suggestions are welcome)

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feelmyanger

Active Member
Hi all!

I'm planning on making my own LED grow lights, and I would like to have your opinion.

I was thinking about using 100 x 3w leds, with a ratio of something like:

6x 730nm
40x 660nm
20x 625nm
6x 410-420nm
12x 440-450nm
8x warm white 2700k
8x cool white 6500k

What do you guys think?

As for the driver, I've found this one http://www.ebay.com/itm/140727706400 (AC100-240V to 5V DC 60A 350W) ...will it do the job or should I get a 12V one?
 
PICOGRAV

PICOGRAV

Well-Known Member
Running the hole system off of 5 volts would be a little silly, why don't you look into some Chips On Board LEDs (COBs). A single COB can use about 100 or so watts but mostly they are just white in color. They wont be as efficient as wiring all those narrow band LEDs together but not by much.

Have a look at the panel I make if you like...
 
tags420

tags420

Well-Known Member
You've got the right idea. Spectrum looks good.
I don't think cobs are that good. For the price and easy of assemly they are convenient...but not the best or my choice for a DIY if you are trying to make a great light. At least not as the only sources, maybe to add white to a already existing spectrum. I would rather get good chips that are better from the start, plus have them spread over the canopy more for better coverage.

Can you operate cobs at full power??? And if so, how is the efficiency when driven full.
 
F

feelmyanger

Active Member
So, what voltage do you recommend?
I will have a look, but I think that for me it will be easier to get the 3w leds.
Do you think that ratio will work? I wanted do do a panel that would do both veg and flower
 
L

lax123

Well-Known Member
Hi,
i tried to build my DIY panel somewhere near to this:
Clones / Seedlings

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 20-25%
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 20-25 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 5-10%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 15-20%
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 5-10 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 5-10 %


Young Plants

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 10-15%
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 10-20 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 25-30%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 30-40%
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 10-15 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%



Early Flowering

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 8-10 %
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 10-20 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 10-20%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 25-30 %
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 25-35 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%


Middle Flowering

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 8-10 %
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 1-15 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 5-10%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 25-30 %
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 30-55 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%


Late Flowering

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 1-8 %
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 1-10 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 1-10%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 25-40 %
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 35-70 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%

I have 3 clusters, 4th is going to come.
First Cluster Veg +2nd->early flower +3rd -> late flower
shifting balance more and more from blue into red and deep red.
I use 3W:
20x 630
20x 660
2x blue
15 x WW
8x CW

Driven by 3 CC drivers

Soon i will add: 2x 30W WW and 2x 30W 630nm cobs and 60° lenses for the 3watters.

IMO you have to much blue in there. 2,6 R:B ratio is a bit low (CW considered blue, WW red)
Can you operate cobs at full power??? And if so, how is the efficiency when driven full...
Click to expand...
I think they r like clustered 1W diodes, so efficiency would be probably quite higher than those 3W leds. In contrast to those e.g. 3W leds you can actually run a 30W cob at 30W...at least most of them and whites. Those 30W 630nm cobs will run @ like 24W

Afterall im noob at growing :smile:
check the Driverspecs, you will see that the 5V version has only 250W
Click to expand...
100x 3W diodes will consume around 200W....
Id rather see how u r planing to run those leds within their specs e.g. 700mA
 
L

lax123

Well-Known Member
simple: if you attach a 3W led to that driver you will destroy it....
As LEDs heat up, the forward voltage drops and the current passing through the LED increases. The increased current generates additional heating of the junction. If nothing limits the current, the junction will fail due to the heat. This phenomenon is referred to as thermal runaway.
Click to expand...
Easiest way would be to use a constant current driver with e.g. 700mA (or what ever is in the specs of ur leds (look at the datasheet)). It will automaticall limit the current to 700mA thus preventing ur leds from beeing destroyed. I use these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Constant-Current-10-18x3W-LED-Driver-AC85-265V-Output-DC36-75V-680mA-/261147686300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccd9d759c one of these drives around 25 x 3W leds (depends on colour/forward voltages). While it does not have the perfect current output its one of the few drivers i found that have a max voltage output of 75V which means you can drive a lot of leds with one driver. There r plenty of other ways, as you will discover. But why not keep it simple :-)
 
PICOGRAV

PICOGRAV

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
Hi,
i tried to build my DIY panel somewhere near to this:
Clones / Seedlings

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 20-25%
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 20-25 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 5-10%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 15-20%
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 5-10 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 5-10 %


Young Plants

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 10-15%
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 10-20 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 25-30%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 30-40%
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 10-15 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%



Early Flowering

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 8-10 %
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 10-20 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 10-20%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 25-30 %
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 25-35 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%


Middle Flowering

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 8-10 %
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 1-15 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 5-10%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 25-30 %
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 30-55 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%


Late Flowering

Blue Range 400-499nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 410 nm , ~430 nm & ~453 nm : 1-8 %
Green Range 500-550 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 550 nm : 1-10 %
Yellow-Amber Range 551-599 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 599 nm : 1-10%
Red Range 600-639 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~ 625 nm : 25-40 %
Deep Red Range 640-670 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~642 nm & 662 nm : 35-70 %
Far Red Range 671-750 nm .Peaks pref. @ ~680 nm ,700 nm & ~730 nmm : 3-5%

I have 3 clusters, 4th is going to come.
First Cluster Veg +2nd->early flower +3rd -> late flower
shifting balance more and more from blue into red and deep red.
I use 3W:
20x 630
20x 660
2x blue
15 x WW
8x CW

Driven by 3 CC drivers

Soon i will add: 2x 30W WW and 2x 30W 630nm cobs and 60° lenses for the 3watters.

IMO you have to much blue in there. 2,6 R:B ratio is a bit low (CW considered blue, WW red)

I think they r like clustered 1W diodes, so efficiency would be probably quite higher than those 3W leds. In contrast to those e.g. 3W leds you can actually run a 30W cob at 30W...at least most of them and whites. Those 30W 630nm cobs will run @ like 24W

Afterall im noob at growing :smile:

100x 3W diodes will consume around 200W....
Id rather see how u r planing to run those leds within their specs e.g. 700mA
Click to expand...
Don't you think this is a little complex for a first DIY panel, is that SDS's info? if so, a lot of that information is unconfirmed from the original post. I cant seem to find the thread, it was called "colors by personal experience" I think, maybe its deleted now? Anyway I asked OP (SDS) to explain some of his findings and he never replied...

Tags, why do you feel COBs are not that good? I think they are the best option for lighting large areas for growing, inside a COB is just a hole bunch of 1-5 watt diodes in a compact package. COBs are like CPUs these days, instead of having a quad CPU mother board with four heatsinks and complex power distribution on the mother board, they are packaging 4 or more CPU cores on a single chip, which makes them more efficient and a higher percentage of the power goes into processing, I think its the same thing with COBs, more energy is going into light, ever millimeter of of copper saved is less heat loss.

The 5 volt supply could be a little problem when you look at the amount of amps you need for everything. Have a look how thick your cables should be to run ~60 amps through your panel. You can always run a few series stings together to bring the supply voltage up.
 
L

lax123

Well-Known Member
Don't you think this is a little complex for a first DIY panel, is that SDS's info? if so, a lot of that information is unconfirmed from the original post. I cant seem to find the thread, it was called "colors by personal experience" I think, maybe its deleted now
Click to expand...
Well as a noob i needed something to start with :-) And some people told me that these values r pretty much nice or ok...soo..For estimating the numbers of leds for each cluster i used that excel sheet for calculating spectrums (google: ledengin spectrumtool). Just rough estimations only.
Tags, why do you feel COBs are not that good?
Click to expand...
because cobs r cool i made that order for those 4x 30W...thats like 60x 3W leds...could not resist lol. Pic Shows how i planned my Clusters and wiring...maybe that gives u some ideas or not ;-)
 

Attachments

PICOGRAV

PICOGRAV

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
Well as a noob i needed something to start with :-) And some people told me that these values r pretty much nice or ok...soo..For estimating the numbers of leds for each cluster i used that excel sheet for calculating spectrums (google: ledengin spectrumtool). Just rough estimations only. because cobs r cool i made that order for those 4x 30W...thats like 60x 3W leds...could not resist lol. Pic Shows how i planned my Clusters and wiring...maybe that gives u some ideas or not ;-)
Click to expand...
Looks nice Lax123, I would still like OP to chime back in and help him out a little more. I think its interesting people are becoming obsessed with custom spectrum's, are there any threads out there that show the difference between a Narrow band LED set up VS Wide band white?
 
F

feelmyanger

Active Member
lax123 said:
I use these: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Waterproof-Constant-Current-10-18x3W-LED-Driver-AC85-265V-Output-DC36-75V-680mA-/261147686300?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3ccd9d759c one of these drives around 25 x 3W leds (depends on colour/forward voltages).
Click to expand...
On my first searches I saw one of those, but I couldn't find one that had enough power for 100 leds. I even considered using two, driving 50 leds each...but had no luck finding one also. Guess I'll have to search deeper on ebay lol

You say that it can drive around 25 x 3w leds? Using 4 of those would I be able to drive all the 100 leds? The leds have an average DC Forward Voltage of 3.6V~3.8V and Forward Current 600-700mA.

And regarding the ratio on the leds, should I change something? Maybe ditch the whites?
 
L

lax123

Well-Known Member
I think its interesting people are becoming obsessed with custom spectrum's
Click to expand...
for me there was also a fun factor involved in this. its up to the OP what he does, he asked for suggestions i gave him mine: use CC Drivers and less blue in that spectrum and cobs r nice.
are there any threads out there that show the difference between a Narrow band LED set up VS Wide band white
Click to expand...
unfortunately i havent seen something near scientific. i think its quite complex and not easy to answer without real studies. Today i read a study about tomatoes and led with added suppl. orange/yellow/green/uv/None with n=5. Who would have thought that those with added harmful UV yielded remarkably more...because its like adapted to a lot of sun it actually likes that extra UV, interesting stuff lol. But on other plants it can decrease yield. Too bad there isnt so much real science to read about the forbidden fruit.
You say that it can drive around 25 x 3w leds? Using 4 of those would I be able to drive all the 100 leds? The leds have an average DC Forward Voltage of 3.6V~3.8V and Forward Current 600-700mA.
Click to expand...
it depends, look up each Forward voltage of each led type, multiply it with the number you want to use in even Cluster, sum up the voltages and see if it fits. e.g. my first Cluster is 10x WW (Vf 3,6), 2x r(2,6),2xdr(2,6),2x b(3,8),3x CW(Vf 3,6) this results in theoretical 65V (@700mA,measured 62,5 @680mA). So in that Cluster i could fit even more. I doubt your average Vf is 3,8. Reds usually have around 2,6....
And regarding the ratio on the leds, should I change something? Maybe ditch the whites
Click to expand...
if you ask me what i would do: i would chop both ur blues to like 1/3 , so 6 blue instead of 18 and i would not ditch any White, i would replace those blues with WW instead...cold White has a lot of blue in it, even WW has it...consider: there r those here that only use different types of White, and it works for them.
 
S

Staxxx

Active Member
OP, save the colorful lights for Christmas. Go with the Bridgelux VERO or CREE CXA COBs. A BALANCED spectrum (say 4k) from start to finish will give you outstanding results. Just have a look at PICO's or bbspills' threads.

PICO, not sure about comparison grows, however, the only grows using hand picked/custom spectrums that I've truly been impressed with are those using high wattage panels. In other words, spectrum, in our case, is not that significant. MJ thrives on clean white light and loves LOTS of it. Enter COBs - high efficiency, easy installation, high intensity all in one simple package. You want a way to replace HID? COB is the answer. Now, if you want to play with different spectrum combinations purely for the sake of experimentation, that's a different story, more power to you. However, if your goal is to grow premium medicine, make your life easy and just take the path of least resistance - which also happens to be the best path.
 
PICOGRAV

PICOGRAV

Well-Known Member
lax123 said:
staxxx have you seen the hans Panels? wild guess: its like low 60W. i have seen a lot of People beeing truely amazed by those. Edit: http://ledgrow.eu/
Click to expand...
The Hans panels is really for pretty small grows... Also he was hiding a lot of explanations of how and why he was building the panel they way he did, he focused mainly on beam shaping with custom reflectors, I imagine the back end of the panel was similar to what we see in others, even know he never revealed it. It was very interesting to read about hes experience with LEDs but he mainly wanted the most efficient light possible and that's how it was designed. Staxxx is right, if you want to use LEDs to replace HID or HPS you need the power.
 
S

Staxxx

Active Member
lax, I have and they produce a good end product, not great by any means. I hope that comment doesn't offend anyone, because that is not my intention here. I still firmly believe white light is superior - better structured plants, frost, etc. Too many variables in each person's garden to sit there and come up with a universal custom spectrum for our needs, say red/blue or red/blue/ww/cw (whatever the flavor of the week is). To each their own, this is just my opinion and I believe it's got a ton of merit. Keep in mind though, my opinion and $1 couldn't buy a cup of coffee.
 
F

feelmyanger

Active Member
lax123 said:
Reds usually have around 2,6
Click to expand...
You're right, I was just "aiming" at the highest number

I did the math roughly (with the decrease of blues) and I got a total of 238.8, divided by 4 = 59.7...so I guess that 4 CC like that would do the trick.

lax123 said:
i would chop both ur blues to like 1/3 , so 6 blue instead of 18 and i would not ditch any White, i would replace those blues with WW instead...
Click to expand...
Should I add 12 more WW?
 
L

lax123

Well-Known Member
so i guess u like experimenting and building stuff too ;-) yea you heard them as much White as possible, and remove blues for that. Idk but i think there is also too much of those 730nm maybe 4max equally spread on your Panel. dont Forget to get a good large heatsink and fans to attach on top and some movies to watch while soldering. Soldering paste or thermal glue and nice wires. You r getting the leds mounted on star pcbs?
 
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