LED CRI suggestions for veg flower, or does it matter?

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by nonamedman420, Mar 7, 2018.

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  1.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    I am about to put a parts list together for my friend. he is looking to replace a 1000w hps light. i was looking at kits and then at individual parts instead. when it came time to decide which cobs to order, i realized i needed more information. i figured i'd ask if there's a preference when it comes to the cri? I'm not sure if that matters for bud weight in flower. would there be a weight difference between builds, with everything else being equal except the cri and temperature rating (2700k, 3000k, 3500k etc..) of the cobs? would 70 vs 80 vs 90 cri make a difference in weight? plant height? stretch? and which is better for vegging, and which for flowering? also kelvin ratings would be the same in the hypothetical build. so, i guess my question would be which cri and temperature ratings would be ideal for veg and which would be ideal for flowering? or am i really overthinking all this, and it doesn't matter much? thank you in advance for any answers!
     
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    Rocket Soul

    Rocket Soul Well-Known Member

    This might be a good place to start reading: https://www.rollitup.org/t/cri-test-and-mcree-weighted-results.919923/

    From what i gathered: high cri: more stretch in vegg but less stretch in flower transition. Faster finishing times.
    Yield: people doing side by sides report both more and less yield on 90cri. Seems to be strain dependent and dependent on chip manufacturer. All 90 cris arent created equal.
    Some people vegg and flower with 3000k/90 cri with good results and swear by it.
     
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  3.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    thank you for the response. i was leaning towards 90/3000 but wasn't sure. i ordered some citizens 90/3000 clu048-1212 gen 5 chips and am converting my light to cobs with those. i figure i'd show him the light and he can decide if that suits him, and whether or not to order optics for it since they're cheap.

    on a side note, how many true watts should he aim for with those cobs, if i were to do the same exact chips i ordered for myself (1212's) but for his build, to replace a 1000w hps? i'd like to make a light for him that he wouldn't regret spending the $ on... i was lead to believe if the cobs are decent (not chinese knockoffs) i wouldn't need to replace a watt with a watt. is this true? and, if so, how many watts should he aim for to replace a 1000w hps? do you recommend a specific line of cobs, that aren't too expensive, to aim for? sorry for all the questions, if it were for me- i'd just order and see, but this isn't my money i'd be wasting. thanks again!
     
  4.  
    Humple

    Humple Well-Known Member

    You'll probably get a few different answers to the question of how many watts you need to replace a 1,000w HPS, but personally, I'd shoot for around 600w.
     
  5.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    thank you very much Humple, I appreciate you taking the time to respond to me.

    i am welcoming any advice from users here, it is all appreciated.

    does anyone know of a good source for drivers that don't break the bank? are there any known good cheap drivers that can be used to run multiple cobs, or even if they need 1 per cob? the price of meanwell drivers is really turning my buddy off from wanting to diy a light. how do these chinese lights power their led's?
     
  6.  
    Humple

    Humple Well-Known Member

    Meanwell makes a few different series, some much cheaper than others. Take a look at the LRS series if the HLG models are too expensive for him.
     
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  7.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member

    For a 1000w replacement with Citi1212 I would use:
    - 2x HLG-320H-C1400B (or 2x -240H-C1400B)
    - 10 or 12x Citi1212 (3500°k/CRI90 as all-in-one spectrum, 5 or 6 per driver)
    ------------------------------
    640-700w total, (500-560w with HLG-240's)

    Bridgelux EBgen.2 strips are also worth to consider. 175lm/w at nom. current and no heatsinks required...
    Screw them to a metal frame and connect the driver, thats it.
    I recommend you to read this thread below.
    He uses Samsung stripes, but there is not much of a difference between Sammy and Blux strips and working with strips is easier than with COB's, IMO.

    https://www.rollitup.org/t/strip-leds-in-the-garden-of-paradise.954799/
     
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  8.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member

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  9.  
    diyled

    diyled Well-Known Member

    ElG-240 is a better option for a budget. look at the efficiency its 93% vs 93.5%

    0.5% efficiency loss for a 25% cost saving

    1.622a vs 1.490a is the only disadvantage if you wanted to overdrive them but 1212s arent great anyway so i wouldnt.
     
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  10.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member

    Yepp, and ELG-series is dimmable to 0%/off while HLG-series models below HLG-320 is only dimmable to 6-10%. They are just more powerful..
     
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    wietefras

    wietefras Well-Known Member

    640W would be fine to replace a 1000W HPS if you actually run it at 1000W. However, usually these things are boosted to 1150W or 1200W though and then you'd better aim for something like 720W to 800W (depending on efficiency) to replace that HPS.

    Citi 1212's are just as good as any other COB really, but the 1212 is a bit too small to run at 50W. I wouldn't go over 36W with those. So you'd need 20 to 22 of them. For a "large" light a bigger COB could perhaps provide an easier solution. Or use led strips.
     
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  12.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    whoa, thanks for all the info from all of you! i'll come back and read it tomorrow when i have more time to pay attention, haha. very much appreciate the advice my friends.
     
  13.  
    Dave455

    Dave455 Well-Known Member

    Get quantum board 132's and put on cheap aluminum frame. Spread that light over them girls !! No heat sink needed.
     
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    wietefras

    wietefras Well-Known Member

    Strips don't need heat sinks either and they cost a lot less and give much better coverage.
     
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  15.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    the thing is, i've bought some before that were junk, and it turned me off from using them.
    could you suggest a good site to order from? preferably in the usa, and could you recommend a model or two that are a good bang for the buck total cost (including any driver if needed as i've seen some that are 110v ac)? thank you for your help!
     
  16.  
    wietefras

    wietefras Well-Known Member

    The Samsung F-series (gen3) or Bridgelux EB (gen2) series are pretty much on the same level. They F-Series use the same Samsung LM561C SMD's as are used on the Quantum boards. So quality wise there is going to be no difference there.

    I'm from Europe myself, but I bought my Samsung F-Series strips from Digikey.

    What size grow area are you working with? For a 4x4 (or bigger) you could use the 4foot strips. Or otherwise probably better the 2' strips.

    Here is the Digikey page with all the products of the Samsung F-series range: https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffecdcb2

    Oddly enough it's missing the 1' strips, but they don't have those on stock and I wouldn't bother with such small strips anyway.

    I'd say drivers are the same price for whatever light you use. From what I understood the Mean Well ELG drivers aren't the best fit for 110V ac, but that's about it. The HLG drivers work fine and if I remember correctly even the ELG drivers weren't that bad on 110V when someone tried them.
     
  17.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    again, thank you for that info, it's really appreciated. yes, my buddy is trying to replace a 100w in a 4x4 or 5x5 space, i honestly can't remember. i stripped an ebay light for the heatsinks and drivers, and made a light from some 4 clu048-1212's. the light is running passively @ 80 true watts, just waiting on my 1500ma drivers from china to come in the mail. then they will be each running 50w and cooled by a 140mm fan for each.

    i'm just trying to help the guy out, he spent $1600 for a spyder light (formerly bml) and he wasn't impressed. i told him i frequent this site, and the people here are very helpful and show their builds, grows with said builds, and show part #'s and prices. i said he could diy a better light for way less than that price, likely better performing and cost him less. we brainstormed to come up with the best light for the least amount of cash (we all wish this, correct?) and i am totally willing to help him build it. the guy is very good to me bud-wise, and i'd like to return the favor! i have been looking in on all the info given to me by the members posting in this thread, none of the info given to me here was in vain.

    again i appreciate all of you taking the time to reply to me, this site is home to the coolest people i've never met, hahaha!
     
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  18.  
    wietefras

    wietefras Well-Known Member

    Fluence Spydr should be a decent light though. Expensive, but much more light on the plants per watt compared to HPS.

    Here a side-by-side test with the old model:


    But yeah, DIY will be a lot better still and a lot cheaper.
     
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  19.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    yeah, $1600 is a whole lot of diy light goodness. some of the builds you members produce look legit as hell. and the service to the community by answering questions, sharing info and results is amazing, you guys are really good people. i just get a little lost when it comes to the heatsink requirements. 110cm/watt seems like a whole lot of heatsink, what is that roughly, 2x2in square? that seems insane. i just am having trouble with that aspect the most. the tutorials you guys put out are excellent, i've just not had the time to locate any for that.... i know i will find it though. :bigjoint:
     
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  20.  
    nonamedman420

    nonamedman420 Well-Known Member

    ok, does anyone know what the C/W/3 rating mean? if i'm looking for a heatsink to cool a 100w cob, i know the cw3 rating means something, but maybe i'm just too burnt out to get it currently haha. it seems the lower the cw3 number- the better it performs. i just wish it made a little more sense to me. i know i have a cob that is 1 in x 1 in, and i need heatsink recommendations for 50w actively cooled, and 50w passively cooled 11ow active/passive, but instead of a direct recommendation, i'd rather have the knowledge to make the choices myself, i just don't have the info needed. i'll do some more reading, and post back here tomorrow. Thank you! hopefully i figure it out buy then. if i do gain the knowledge, i will write up a guide for these forums, i have no problem giving back to the community. what comes around, goes around.
     

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