churchhaze
Well-Known Member
Even for lettuce, it seems like the japanese are using R+B for germination only, then using warm white for the older stages. (at least that's what I've always assumed was going on in that picture)
Led + cfl cheaper than hps
- Thread starter Greenfingers1987
- Start date
Greenfingers1987
Active Member
Cheers everyone for your replys I definitely feel im learning alot ere
Greenfingers1987
Active Member
Just a quick question if anyone could please answer it
I have a couple of seedlings just sprouted in last 24 hours under a 250w cfl how far should the bulb be away from them please
Thanks guys
I have a couple of seedlings just sprouted in last 24 hours under a 250w cfl how far should the bulb be away from them please
Thanks guys
RM3
Well-Known Member
I would start at 3 feet and adjust for response
my seedling light is 15 watts and I keep it at a foot
This study shows a BLM 1200 LED using much less watts than double ended HPS growing significantly more weed:
Here is the BLM spectrum used:
https://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/n-pktq5q/qzuvsqy/products/136/images/450/BML_GROW_MAX_Chart__27274.1412972277.1280.1280.jpg?c=2
My guess is the spectrum is about 10% blue, 86% red and 4% green/yellow.
I do agree IMHO that green light is beneficial. My opinion goes with the earlier study attached, green is great up to 24%. I have attached another research study on green light that basically states what you are saying... green penetrates.
To get the most out of your lighting, I think you will find SCROG method superior.
Most closet growers can't afford BLM 1200 Spyders or 1000 watt double ended HPS. My goal with WeedBulbs.com is to get the entry price down for closet growers.
More research is needed. Most of the research is all over the board with nothing conclusive leaving us all to form "opinions".
churchhaze
Well-Known Member
In that first video, the plants under BML were getting significantly higher PPFD measurements. The plants under the BML bars had PPFD within the range of 620-1200umol*s^-1*m^-2 while the gavita had a measured range of 570-730umol*s^-1*m^-2.
That's a brute strength photon flux advantage and it'd be hard to prove it's from the spectrum and not the fact that it's higher intensity.
Agreed, this is the reason I keep saying "IMHO". More research is needed to prove one way or the other.
What is crystal clear from the study is that using manufacturers recommendations, the BLM 1200 Spyder produces a butt load more GPW using a targeted spectrum that about 10% blue, 86% red and 4% green/yellow.
I think (IMHO) it is very probable that a different targeted spectrum could have produced more GPW. More research is needed.
tstick
Well-Known Member
OP,
There are techniques that could enable you to get less expensive electricity bills from almost any lighting method you might want to choose. There was just a recent post about a lighting schedule of:12 on/5.5 off/1 on/5.5 off -which would save 5 hours of on-time -regardless of the type of light.
So, in other words, let's say you use a very efficient 600 watt LED light and run the typical 18 on/6 off schedule...You could still run a 600 watt HID system cheaper by using the aforementioned 12/1 lighting schedule. As has been mentioned, you can even run a rather inefficient, single-ended HID and apply it to a vertical grow and likely get a higher yield -which is a better way to look at true efficiency, anyway..imo.
A high-quality 600 watt LED fixture will create more photons and less heat per watt in comparison to the HID light. This can be good or bad depending on your growing environment. For example, the extra heat that an HID light puts out can be taken advantage of in lieu of adding a separate heater to the space IF your environment is a bit too cool. Conversely, you could take advantage of the cool-running LED lights in an environment that's warm enough without the need to add heat.
Your electrical meter will run just as fast in either example. A ton of feathers weighs as much as a ton of gold...
One thing that should be mentioned here is how certain types of lights degrade and lose intensity over time. I used to run a 400 watt Metal Halide fixture that required a new bulb replacement at least each year...and the bulbs are not cheap! Twisty CFL and other fluorescent bulbs are also notorious for losing intensity over time, too. I would say that over the longest span, the LED will provide the most consistent output over time....so that should be considered, too, when it comes to "cheaper".
It's all kind of a mish-mash of techniques and other factors that make certain ways of growing less-expensive than others. If you know what you're doing, you can pretty much bend any system to your will!
There are techniques that could enable you to get less expensive electricity bills from almost any lighting method you might want to choose. There was just a recent post about a lighting schedule of:12 on/5.5 off/1 on/5.5 off -which would save 5 hours of on-time -regardless of the type of light.
So, in other words, let's say you use a very efficient 600 watt LED light and run the typical 18 on/6 off schedule...You could still run a 600 watt HID system cheaper by using the aforementioned 12/1 lighting schedule. As has been mentioned, you can even run a rather inefficient, single-ended HID and apply it to a vertical grow and likely get a higher yield -which is a better way to look at true efficiency, anyway..imo.
A high-quality 600 watt LED fixture will create more photons and less heat per watt in comparison to the HID light. This can be good or bad depending on your growing environment. For example, the extra heat that an HID light puts out can be taken advantage of in lieu of adding a separate heater to the space IF your environment is a bit too cool. Conversely, you could take advantage of the cool-running LED lights in an environment that's warm enough without the need to add heat.
Your electrical meter will run just as fast in either example. A ton of feathers weighs as much as a ton of gold...
One thing that should be mentioned here is how certain types of lights degrade and lose intensity over time. I used to run a 400 watt Metal Halide fixture that required a new bulb replacement at least each year...and the bulbs are not cheap! Twisty CFL and other fluorescent bulbs are also notorious for losing intensity over time, too. I would say that over the longest span, the LED will provide the most consistent output over time....so that should be considered, too, when it comes to "cheaper".
It's all kind of a mish-mash of techniques and other factors that make certain ways of growing less-expensive than others. If you know what you're doing, you can pretty much bend any system to your will!
tstick
Well-Known Member
I would rather utilize a spectrum of light that is not only beneficial for the plants...but, also a spectrum that is comfortable for me to work under. I didn't like the way I felt when I was running HPS back in the day. I felt great, however, when I was running MH. Go figure! As far as working around and under intense purple light goes, I wouldn't like it. I think it's very possible that long-term exposure to "unnatural" spectrums may be more detrimental to human health than it is of benefit to plant health. -2 cents
As far as working around and under intense purple light goes, I wouldn't like it. I think it's very possible that long-term exposure to "unnatural" spectrums may be more detrimental to human health than it is of benefit to plant health. -2 centsWhite light is typically made by mixing blue, green and red...I would rather utilize a spectrum of light that is not only beneficial for the plants...but, also a spectrum that is comfortable for me to work under. I didn't like the way I felt when I was running HPS back in the day. I felt great, however, when I was running MH. Go figure!
- So if you have HPS, add blue light when you are working on the plants... this will make white.
http://www.amazon.com/PowerBLUE/dp/B00YELLHP8
- So if you have purple light, add green light when you are working on the plants... this will make white.
http://www.amazon.com/PowerGREEN/dp/B00YEO6N3G
This way you have the best of both worlds... efficient for plants when you are not around and nice for humans when you are working.
tstick
Well-Known Member
Nah, I'd rather just use a more human-friendly full spectrum white to begin with. The plants don't really care that much what color the photons are -as long as there are enough of them. I suppose there might be an exception if you were to TRY and make a spectrum that not even plants would like...but, in general, a full-spectrum white is both plant AND user-friendly, I think.
I might try the twisty CFLs if I was doing a small cabinet grow or something...but I'm afraid it would be like trying to extract a single drop of piss from the ocean to try and use them in a larger space...?
Greenfingers1987
Active Member
Cheers guys all this input is great
nevergoodenuf
Well-Known Member
@Greenfingers1987 turn off that light and run 1 or 2 of these (http://www.homedepot.com/p/75W-Equivalent-BR30-Daylight-LED-Light-Bulb-ECS-BR30-75WE-CW-120-G2-BL/206344860) until it isn't enough light, otherwise you are just wasting money.
Every time you turn on a CFL of any brand, you are seeing the magic of a mix of blue, green and red phosphors to make white... the common term is tri-phosphor.Actually, I would love to SEE (visually) if mixing a green CFL light and a purple light, would, in fact make white light. That would be really cool if it did....but my guess is that it would make something other than white light. But, hey show me and I'll believe it!
A 2700K is primarily green phosphor with the balance of blue/red to be more red. A 6400K is primarily green phosphor with the balance of blue/red to be more blue.
It makes no difference if this mix of light is done internally or externally.
We are currently making a yellow bug light, but there is no yellow phosphor in it... just a mix of green and red light producing phosphors.
Want Cyan? mix blue and green light in just the right portions.
Magic.
One of the most useful tricks in a grow room is to put a PowerGREEN in a drop light and then shine it on your plants that are receiving purple or lavender light. You will magically see white light.
Bill Lidgate
Active Member
The latest (now) Fluence SPYDR is full spectrum with each rail having 132 x 0.5w LEDs (warm and neutral) plus 8 red LEDs for some reason, so no more Blurple.
They sell an 5 rail version (330w, SPYDRx) for $900 and an 8 rail version (660w, SPYDRx PLUS) for $1500. Nice designs but at ~ $2.84/watt its not the best value.
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Airwalker16
Well-Known Member
OneHitDone
Well-Known Member
thetr33man
Well-Known Member
What cobs is this based upon?