Leaf diagnosis request - burn or deficiency?

I believe the hanna meter is on the 500 scale, soil plants were fed mainly tap water until week 2 of bloom then i started feeding maxibloom, approx 1 tsp per gallon.


I had aimed to keep the hydro around ph 5.9, I just don't like adding stuff every day so i let it range up a tad then adjust when I refill water/nutes.

westcoast420 said:

Hes in hydro so higher ph will lock out other nutrients. Dude just an FYI 1600 is VERY high ppm, especially in hydro. I run high ppm when in gh but rarely ran more than 12-1300, and that was with 7-8’ trees indoors in 20 gal pots. 1600 is way too high man. Even at 14 your very high. And yes pk 13/14 is similar to kB liquid, kB is 0-10-10 if my memory serves me right. Also in your last picture you can see the tips of the leaves on the tops starting to go yellow and brown, this is just the first sign your overfeeding. Take a look at the rest of your plants and see if they have tip burn. Take my advice for what you like, but I’ve run a 30kw place for over a decade and have been growing for twice that time.

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I felt it was too high as well, I added some RO and reduced the PPM. Thanks for the advice, should've cloned so I can run the same strain again with my notes.

sandman83 said:

Same leaf blotchiness, can't tell if it is spreading so I'll snap pictures each morning of the bud to monitor.

ph stable at 6.2, ppm dropped a tad to 1600. Soil plants showing similar deficiency now.

View attachment 4445091

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That's a calcium deficit.

Chuck em in the trash

sandman83 said:

I felt it was too high as well, I added some RO and reduced the PPM. Thanks for the advice, should've cloned so I can run the same strain again with my notes.

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The thing about Lucas formula that concerns me is that stuff is added but never taken away.
This means that the formula must precisely match the plant's uptake of all the ions. If one of the ion amounts is off, the plant will either have a deficit or an excess of that nutrient. Maintaining the Lucas formula at that point will lead to greater and greater nute imbalance. at that point the plant will reveal signs of lockout andor general deficiency.

It is not a stable system. It will tend toward catastrophe unless you have the lucky ratio up front, or the plant has an unusually generous ion concentration envelope. Thus Lucas has always struck me as false economy if you're not running a big commercial greenhouse with on-site analytical capacity for all relevant nutrient ions.

Also your formula is Lucas "plus extraneous stuff" and is that much more likely to go into a nutrient-imbalance feedback cycle.

In your shoes I'd swap to a drain-to-waste type strategy. Dump the current reservoir and set up a reservoir using GH 3-part drain-to-waste schedule. That way, each new feed will be at ratios much more likely to make for a healthier plant. Aim for 500-600 ppm total nutrient (above and beyond initial water TDS).

cannabineer said:

The thing about Lucas formula that concerns me is that stuff is added but never taken away.
This means that the formula must precisely match the plant's uptake of all the ions. If one of the ion amounts is off, the plant will either have a deficit or an excess of that nutrient. Maintaining the Lucas formula at that point will lead to greater and greater nute imbalance. at that point the plant will reveal signs of lockout andor general deficiency.

It is not a stable system. It will tend toward catastrophe unless you have the lucky ratio up front, or the plant has an unusually generous ion concentration envelope. Thus Lucas has always struck me as false economy if you're not running a big commercial greenhouse with on-site analytical capacity for all relevant nutrient ions.

Also your formula is Lucas "plus extraneous stuff" and is that much more likely to go into a nutrient-imbalance feedback cycle.

In your shoes I'd swap to a drain-to-waste type strategy. Dump the current reservoir and set up a reservoir using GH 3-part drain-to-waste schedule. That way, each new feed will be at ratios much more likely to make for a healthier plant.

Lucas Formula

General Hydroponics Flora Series Feeding Strategy - Lucas Formula G-M-B (Grow-Micro-Bloom) 0-5-10 - For Vegetative cycle (18/6) 0-8-16 - For Flowering cycle (12/12) The numbers above indicate the number of milliliters (ml) of Flora Grow, Micro or Bloom formulas that I use in one gallon...

www.rollitup.org

Feedcharts

Feedcharts for every experience level. Access easy-to-follow plans that tell you exactly when and how much to feed your plants from seed to harvest for every…

generalhydroponics.com

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From chatting with some others, that appears to be the consensus. I should've stuck with the 3 part system i was familiar with instead of trying to be lazy and not dump the 55 gallon tank every 2 weeks with DTW. I'm waiting for the light cycle now and will just suck it up and dump the tank again for fresh. Will clean the tank sides as well for any residue, drop the silica, and switch to just 3 part + koolbloom until the finish. I also let the PPM get too high thinking they were hungry when in reality I lacked the nutrient they wanted regardless of the PPM.


Thanks everyone for the advice.

sandman83 said:

From chatting with some others, that appears to be the consensus. I should've stuck with the 3 part system i was familiar with instead of trying to be lazy and not dump the 55 gallon tank every 2 weeks with DTW. I'm waiting for the light cycle now and will just suck it up and dump the tank again for fresh. Will clean the tank sides as well for any residue, drop the silica, and switch to just 3 part + koolbloom until the finish. I also let the PPM get too high thinking they were hungry when in reality I lacked the nutrient they wanted regardless of the PPM.


Thanks everyone for the advice.

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Annie runs the 3-part with cal-mag. You need the cal-mag. The koolbloom is unnecessary and potentially a source of imbalance.

Since you're running RO water, you have to replace Ca and Mg that is typically in tap water. The GH 3-part is completed with a good product like CaliMagic. So it's really a 4-part nute regimen.

Mix smaller reservoirs, and either go drain-to-waste or change out the reservoir on a schedule. When Annie ran NFT, which is similar to your method, she did a full reservoir changeout on a weekly schedule. Compared to the yield you're losing to lockout, the added expense is more than offset by improved result.

cannabineer said:

Annie runs the 3-part with cal-mag. You need the cal-mag. The koolbloom is unnecessary and potentially a source of imbalance.

Since you're running RO water, you have to replace Ca and Mg that is typically in tap water. The GH 3-part is completed with a good product like CaliMagic. So it's really a 4-part nute regimen.

Mix smaller reservoirs, and either go drain-to-waste or change out the reservoir on a schedule. When Annie ran NFT, which is similar to your method, she did a full reservoir changeout on a weekly schedule. Compared to the yield you're losing to lockout, the added expense is more than offset by improved result.

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sorry my mistake, i assume calmag always gets added as I use RO water, sometimes I forget to list that I'm using it. I can drop the koolbloom as well. Not really too concerned with yield I just wanted a good quality product for myself.


Size of the reservoir doesn't bother me one bit, I can produce RO water onsite. During the stretch they were drinking at least 5 gallons every other day so I started keeping it more full.

I didn't bother reading this whole thread because it looks like your local grow store loves you for all the money you spend there. You're giving too much stuff. Bottle feeding is the most common way to kill plants.

polishpollack said:

I didn't bother reading this whole thread because it looks like your local grow store loves you for all the money you spend there. You're giving too much stuff. Bottle feeding is the most common way to kill plants.

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alrighty then, thanks for stopping by and adding nothing useful! Appreciate the salty comments!

I get it, that's funny. salty... fertilizer... you make joke.

polishpollack said:

I get it, that's funny. salty... fertilizer... you make joke.

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see =) we can still be friendly.

And yes I agree, I overdid it this time around since I had much more funds than the first time. Common mistake with most of my hobbies.

Oh man gotta love these forums these days. Who’s Annie and why does this guy need to switch up his entire grow to be like Annie? Lol Jesus. You said your in week 5 correct? At that stage most that run 3 part drop the grow anyway and are just feeding micro bloom anyway. That’s what I’ve done for years. I do know guys that run without grow for the entire cycle as micro and bloom have all your macros in them. Micro and bloom contain enough cal mag if you are feeding at a high enough dose, which you are, you DO NOT need to add cal mag, especially at this stage in flower. I don’t know if some of these people commenting can’t read or just don’t know what their talking about. My tap I’ve used for years was 50 ppm no calcium nothing and I never used cal mag as I ran micro high enough to supply that. If I ever did add in more I had issues. I would mix up a test gallon with 2ml si, 8 ml micro, 15 bloom, 5 ml kb per gal ph to 5.8 and see what ppm you get. That is very close to the recipe I have ran for close to 10 years.

UncleBuck said:

Chuck em in the trash

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still the best advice

westcoast420 said:

Oh man gotta love these forums these days. Who’s Annie and why does this guy need to switch up his entire grow to be like Annie? Lol Jesus. You said your in week 5 correct? At that stage most that run 3 part drop the grow anyway and are just feeding micro bloom anyway. That’s what I’ve done for years. I do know guys that run without grow for the entire cycle as micro and bloom have all your macros in them. Micro and bloom contain enough cal mag if you are feeding at a high enough dose, which you are, you DO NOT need to add cal mag, especially at this stage in flower. I don’t know if some of these people commenting can’t read or just don’t know what their talking about. My tap I’ve used for years was 50 ppm no calcium nothing and I never used cal mag as I ran micro high enough to supply that. If I ever did add in more I had issues. I would mix up a test gallon with 2ml si, 8 ml micro, 15 bloom, 5 ml kb per gal ph to 5.8 and see what ppm you get. That is very close to the recipe I have ran for close to 10 years.

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tap water fluctuates but 290 ppm at the moment when i tested so I use RO. I did notice the gh chart drops the grow in the last few weeks as well, honestly think I just overdid it with the koolbloom. live and learn, I'll get the hang of it.

UncleBuck said:

still the best advice

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Try all you want UncleFuck, all I do is laugh at you and your little cadre of followers.

sandman83 said:

Try all you want UncleFuck, all I do is laugh at you and your little cadre of followers.

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Now who's salty?

polishpollack said:

Now who's salty?

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My ferts still!

polishpollack said:

Now who's salty?

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Did you have anything to actually add? Troll comments, post history hidden, friends with chucklefuck? Thanks for identifying yourself!

I 3rd the high too high and drop the kaboom.