Layoffs coming...

hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
For companies who's profit margins run in the 3 to 5% range (like insurance companies) 2.3 could be that breaker. For those huge profit companies I'm on your page, 2.3% would barely leave a mark, but for those others.. they are being hurt.

If you know it doesn't hurt the big guy but does hurt the not so big guy why does it make sense? Your lust to punish the greedy rich bastards led you to a solution that doesn't really even touch them, but hurts the business men you can admire. I'm confroosed.
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They will simply pass it on. Face it, you already pay for the uninsured. Bet you didn't know that Medicare/Medicaid step in for every hospital and help settle SOME of their uncollectable debts. Every year. private hospitals included.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
hotrodharley said:
They will simply pass it on. Face it, you already pay for the uninsured. Bet you didn't know that Medicare/Medicaid step in for every hospital and help settle SOME of their uncollectable debts. Every year. private hospitals included.
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I'm in healthcare and knee deep in keeping compliance of the meaningful use aspect of the HITECH portion of Obamacre for a large hospital corporation. I used to own a small home health agency and was a Rehab director of a medium sized hospital. I've also consulted with a smaller local hospital to help them gain both JCAHO accreditation and Critical Access status. I'm pretty versed in government and insurance reimbursement to hospitals and other provider sources.

What I'm not good at though is fixing my bikes. I have an anniversary Heritage classic and an 85' goldwing. I wish I had your skills, I just don't enjoy it. I hate, HATE working on the honda, it's a chore, too much covered.
 
kelly4

kelly4

Well-Known Member
Carne Seca said:
Oh, bullshit. less money to CEO's, more money for quality control and quality product. I've seen benefits and commissions cut for regular employees that actually MAKE the money for the company. The sales, retention, and technical customer service reps are the money generating engine of the corporate world. More and more they are losing benefits, getting lower wages, cutting back on commissions for sales and raising the mandatory sales quota to unrealistic levels. I worked for a company in sales and retention and got anywhere from 900.00 to 1,500.00 in commissions. By the time I left, we were lucky to get 100 to 200 dollars in commissions and top sales executives who had been in the company for years were losing their jobs because they couldn't make the quota. The turn-over rate was insane. AND they cut back on hiring. So more work for less people. This was when the company was making INSANE profits. What was different? They had hired a new CEO and his salary/bonus/benefits package was HUGE. All the changes didn't come about until he was hired.

Cut back on CEO shit and redistribute it to the ones that actually MAKE the money for the companies.
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I almost missed that. Tell us your whole plan of redistribution. Start from the part where the government steals it from somebody.
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
I'm in healthcare and knee deep in keeping compliance of the meaningful use aspect of the HITECH portion of Obamacre for a large hospital corporation. I used to own a small home health agency and was a Rehab director of a medium sized hospital. I've also consulted with a smaller local hospital to help them gain both JCAHO accreditation and Critical Access status. I'm pretty versed in government and insurance reimbursement to hospitals and other provider sources.

What I'm not good at though is fixing my bikes. I have an anniversary Heritage classic and an 85' goldwing. I wish I had your skills, I just don't enjoy it. I hate, HATE working on the honda, it's a chore, too much covered.
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I hear you. Been in medicine over 3 decades and still going. Nuttiness like reimbursement turned back due to incorrect ICD-9 coding and subcoding. Not looking forward to ICD-10 which is years late in release literally. Probably for good reason. Plus all the documentation for the state, for CMS, for the insurance companies. That Wing shouldn't need too much!
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
You can see a rise in care costs coinciding with the use of government mandated coding. For every person who has actual contact with a patient there are many minions to make sure the t was crossed correctly.

I had to learn how to make achievable instead of optimistic goals. I learned how to document progress so a stroke victim didn't get cut off due to maintenance. I've learned to over order medical equipment because I want my patients to get better and not be punished for it (believe it or not, medicare will not pay for a cane if you have a walker, a walker if you have a wheelchair). If I have someone that needs a chair temporarily before moving to a walker, i get them a walker with it because it won't be covered later. I've learned to do gait analysis on people with no legs because an answer they gave during admission triggered some stupid government standard that all non-ambulatory patients are fall risks and need an eval.

Sorry for the rant man, you know as well as I do the difference in healthcare today compared to 20 years ago. I'm not a fan of asking the institution that has exacerbated so many problems to fix them.

And I promised myself I wouldn't discuss Obamacare on weekends lol.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
That isn't the point.

The point is punishing the people who drive your company to success is bad business ethics. It seems like what these top tier CEO's want is to do is have their cake and eat it too while their workers fight for crumbs. That's not leadership, and it's rare to find this type of behavior from leaders of businesses outside America. Japan for example, a CEO of an international airline recently docked his own pay and started taking public transportation to work just so his workers wouldn't face the brunt of the decreasing profits. That is good business ethics. Leaders who actually care about the workers that run their company and place their own profits second. You have to remember, these guys are already worth tens, hundreds of millions of dollars, some even in the billions. When they do things like this it only makes them look greedy. This is far from what the American dream initially offered. America is about freedom, equality, helping your neighbor in a time of need, what's equal about pushing all the problems onto your neighbor so you don't have to feel any of the pain from an economic crisis at all, especially when you're the one who is best prepared for it because you have already accumulated the wealth and they haven't?

I'll try to give you an analogy.. Say it's summer and I owned a lemonade stand and hired two people to work it while I supervised it. It brings in $100 a day, I pay my two workers $15 each, $40 goes to expansion, $30 goes to me. Now it's winter and I'm selling less lemonade, say I take a hit to income at 30%, now I'm making $70 total per day instead of $100. Would it be fair, right, ethical of me to dock my workers pay down to $10 each, continue to take home $30 myself, and put $30 back into the company? They're working the same hours as before, would that be OK?
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They're probably not working at all, since the work load is less and you can now do all the work yourself. Or are you saying you should continue paying them the same while you, the owner of the business, take no pay at all?
 
hotrodharley

hotrodharley

Well-Known Member
ginwilly said:
You can see a rise in care costs coinciding with the use of government mandated coding. For every person who has actual contact with a patient there are many minions to make sure the t was crossed correctly.

I had to learn how to make achievable instead of optimistic goals. I learned how to document progress so a stroke victim didn't get cut off due to maintenance. I've learned to over order medical equipment because I want my patients to get better and not be punished for it (believe it or not, medicare will not pay for a cane if you have a walker, a walker if you have a wheelchair). If I have someone that needs a chair temporarily before moving to a walker, i get them a walker with it because it won't be covered later. I've learned to do gait analysis on people with no legs because an answer they gave during admission triggered some stupid government standard that all non-ambulatory patients are fall risks and need an eval.

Sorry for the rant man, you know as well as I do the difference in healthcare today compared to 20 years ago. I'm not a fan of asking the institution that has exacerbated so many problems to fix them.

And I promised myself I wouldn't discuss Obamacare on weekends lol.
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No rant but reiteration of facts that lead to our daily frustrations. Pharmacies calling because a critical med is a refill request 1 day early so could I call the doctor and simply have it re-prescribed? Meanwhile at $XX.00/hour I have nothing better to do than make a phone call the pharmacy could and should make! But better we waste our time than they theirs.

The patient was bleeding beyond his ability to staunch it but had to be sent by EMS as he had left the building and then returned when he began bleeding in the parking lot. We are not licensed to render care to the public if they walk in so he had to have 911 called, the fire department had to respond and transport him (he just sat down and laid over on the stretcher). To the ER and his wife had to pay $50 cash that night as a down payment on the $1000 non-emergency ambulance transport. The bill was in excess of $6K for just the ER and the ER doctors bill. Not including lab etc.

Healthcare reform was a must. The GOP dicked us all and themselves worse by not taking a damned active part in building the plan. Now we got what we got.
 
ginwilly

ginwilly

Well-Known Member
Obamacare is just a stepping stone to a national healthcare system. It will become necessary because of what this bill will do to costs.

Our hospital lost a 50k bill because our cardiologist didn't document why he didn't prescribe aspirin to a heart patient according to core measures mandated by the government. His patient was on plavix and it was so obvious to the doctor he didn't understand why the documentation was needed. According to Obamacare, a verbal order no longer suffices, the orders will have to be entered electronically by the doctor himself now. Watching these brilliant men and women struggle with a password is both comical and sad. They could say give him aspirin or they can spend 30 minutes with the help desk because they've locked themselves out of the EMR again. This isn't going to help with costs at all.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
hotrodharley said:
The "fiscal cliff" facing us was brought to us by both parties. If it has anything to do related to Obama it's in the laps of the House GOP as a majority with the Senate GOP not far behind. The continued denial of the effects of that "plan" by Karl Rove and Grover Norquist that was carried out by McConnell and Boehner is ludicrous. But, a wink is as good as a nod to a blind horse.
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The sequestration was all Obama's idea. He then gave it to Reid to propose to the GOP, who stupidly went along. Knee-jerk blaming everything on the Republicans is not getting us anywhere.
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
HeartlandHank said:
From 1978 to 2011, CEO compensation increased more than 725 percent, a rise substantially greater than stock market growth and the painfully slow 5.7 percent growth in worker compensation over the same period.

That statement says you are wrong. CEO pay has risen much faster than growth.
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Actually, it doesn't even address his statement at all. I am surprised you think it does.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Carne Seca said:
Oh, bullshit. less money to CEO's, more money for quality control and quality product. I've seen benefits and commissions cut for regular employees that actually MAKE the money for the company. The sales, retention, and technical customer service reps are the money generating engine of the corporate world. More and more they are losing benefits, getting lower wages, cutting back on commissions for sales and raising the mandatory sales quota to unrealistic levels. I worked for a company in sales and retention and got anywhere from 900.00 to 1,500.00 in commissions. By the time I left, we were lucky to get 100 to 200 dollars in commissions and top sales executives who had been in the company for years were losing their jobs because they couldn't make the quota. The turn-over rate was insane. AND they cut back on hiring. So more work for less people. This was when the company was making INSANE profits. What was different? They had hired a new CEO and his salary/bonus/benefits package was HUGE. All the changes didn't come about until he was hired.

Cut back on CEO shit and redistribute it to the ones that actually MAKE the money for the companies.
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~late to the thread~

It would seem to me that there is opportunity here. You're describing a firm being run into the ground. A new company in the same sector, with a leaner mgmt structure, could make real money by undercutting the firm you describe.
Assuming, of course, that the regulatory structure makes it possible to start the new firm. cn
 
Red1966

Red1966

Well-Known Member
hotrodharley said:
"Company leaders say the cuts are part of a restructuring plan. They blame the layoffs on the new medical device tax set to take effect next year as part of the Affordable Care Act. The mandate requires a 2.3% tax on sales of medical devices."

2.3% and that's a breaker? BS. A wimpy excuse, even though valid, to ditch the country they built themselves into an empire in while paying much higher rates. Greed at the highest levels. That cut-and-paste is from WA themselves.
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That 2.3% is on the total value. Profit margins are 5-10%. So you're talking 25-50% less profit. Is it unreasonable to expect 25-50% layoffs?
 
Canna Sylvan

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
At least you can all look Foward! to Obama's constant speeches telling you the unemployment rate is down while out of a job, which I'm sure will comfort.
 
HeartlandHank

HeartlandHank

Well-Known Member
Canna Sylvan said:
At least you can all look Foward! to Obama's constant speeches telling you the unemployment rate is down while out of a job, which I'm sure will comfort.
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Right...
Man... the fear in the Republican party after this election is comedy.
They said that this election would be the last the Republican party could count on enough angry white guys to keep them in power. Looks like that was a little optimistic.
Get ready man. You'll have a democrat President until at least 2024.
 
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