Killing Root Rot

NTGinSF

Member
I'm hoping Fatman is still around. I have been using Dutchmaster zone for some time, and have tried the bleach solution in the past with great results. My question to anyone/everyone is whether or not it is necessary to continue running zone when you add bleach to the reservoir? I read through the post, and didn't notice any specific address to that question? Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. It looks like Zone is essentially chloramine and copper. Chloramine is obviously used in many drinking water municipalities (mine included), so I'm assuming they are using that as a dissinfectant along with the copper. Any feedback again, very much appreciated.
 

takeiteazy

Active Member
Ok guys,

This is what Ive been doing to try to kill my mild case of root rot. I originally bought 35% peroxide and removed my plants from the res and dipped them into a gallon container with an 10ml dose of peroxide. I obcourse exchanged the water with new water and added a few mls of peroxide to that along with an extra air stone, a total of 3 then. I came back a couple days later and the water was dirty and the roots were still not growing or changing color. So I decided that airstones are crap because they normally dont distribute the bubbles evenly. I went and built this DIY super bubbler DWC. 4 air curtains and a large 60gal air pump power this 18 gal res. I filled it with well water (200ppm) and 10 drops per gallon of clorox and I hacked off half of my root ball, stripped the small dead finger roots and left the larger main columns, and put them in.

Then I did some trimming VERY IMPORTANT, when you dont have a good root system you gotta cut the larger fan leaves so the plant doesn't have to try to support all that growth. I previously trimmed my large GDP that got a bad case of root rot, I had to cut the roots back up to the stem of my 15in tall plant! It is surviving and in fact doing the best in spite of it not having a root cluster. It had all the large fan leaves trimmed off when I noticed them yellowing and dying. Now its doing "OK".

The problem now is that the plant still isnt growing roots. What gives? Should I change the res and back off the clorox?

Here are some pics of my plant roots and my setup...





Hi Guys from UK


I have had Pythium last three grows after YEARS of awesome grows. Tried the lot, strerile system , chiller (67/68f), totally light proof, plenty bubbles and loads of flooming BUT it still comes back ???

I need help !!!! But in UK we have no Clorex but we do have Domestos -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestos

It requires 8 drops/gallon or 4 litres in UK for 5ppm to KILL Pythium and 1ppm for prevention.

How would this equate to Domestos above guys ?

I can also get 15% pure chlorine solution for pools and Flairform sell a product named PYTHOFF -

http://www.flairform.com/Products/pythoff.htm - this is just 0.5% chlorine and rest water...

Can anyone advise on a killing/maintenance plan for me ??

Cheers
 

MediMary

Well-Known Member
DownUnder HF will fix any root problem, best shit on the market!
They also got the dizzle 1, 2, punch combo, I swear by this stuff!
 

takeiteazy

Active Member
Can anyone help me out here please. Got some 4.8% Chlorine but not sure on dosages. Not having much joy with 35% peroxide, it just keeps returning.....

Cheers
 

laughingduck

Well-Known Member
Like I said. The MDS said 5 to 10% Sodium Hypochlorite. Maybe I just got the bad luck of their worse posted MSDS. The calculations are based upon your saying 5.75%. And I calculated based upon 5.75% sodium hypochlorite as chlorox bleach is made with sodium hypochlorite. The calculations merely show that if it is 5.75% sodium chlorite then only 3.9% is actually available as chlorine. I can go to probably 10 differnt sites and be told 10 different amounts in various term as to how much chlorine is in house hold Chlorox Bleach. What I see most often is the number 5.25% on sites that say how to mix chlorox for restaurant surface disinfection. Honestly I don't think Chlorox runs a tight control on the chlorine content of most of their products. As long as they provide the minimum of what they advertise they just plug away with mixing and bottling their at least 50 different products containing sodium hypochlorite. Considering that the caactual material cost of producing their products is their smallest expense I do not think they care a lot.

The ppm concentration is 39675 ppm if the Chlorox was 5.75% sodium hypochlorite. If it was 5.75% aviailble Chlorine then it is 57500 ppm. You want 1 ppm.

That means the Chlorox straight from the bottle will treat either 39675 gallons or 57500 gallons. There are 3785 ml to a gallon. So a ml from the bottle will treat either: (39675/3785) = 10.48 gallons or (57500/3785)= 15.19 gallons As 2 ppm is the maximum allowed residual level of chlorine and the residual is how much is left over after all organics are oxidized that means those water treatment plants started out with adding about 4 ppm. Yes there are that much crap still in our water after water treatment plants are through with it. When who look at a treatment report and it gives a list of things like Bromodichloromethane, Chlorodibromomethane, Chloroform, and Trihalonethanes the ose are all compounds formed by chlorine oxidizing organic compounds in the water.

Many people have used chlororinated tap water on their plants for decades without killing their plants. Chlorine harm to plants iis grossly exaggerated. The commercial green house industry has been using chlorine at the residual 0.5 ppm to 1 ppm rate for decades with the food they grow that we eat. Obviously it is not killing the plants or us. They inject chlorine by auto control to keep the residual level between 0.5 ppm and 1 ppm continously. they do not wait for a problem to arrive first, the use those levels as a preventative against Pythh. So whether 10.48 or 15.19 is the proper number does not matter much as Pythh is easily killed by chlorine at levels as low as 0.2 ppm at tempertures of 75 degrees F. It is even more effective at higher temps but the chlorine out gasses quicker as the temperture increases so it must be added more often.

Personally I would use the 1 ml per 10 gallon number. That means a teaspoon of chlorox straight from the bottle is good for 50 gallons of nutrient water.

The use of bleach is the cheapest aspect of my growing. Thats why I find the cost of retail products sucha s Pythoff so AN ish. Flairform charges something like $10 for a 1 quart bottle of RO water with a few cents of Chlorox added to it sold as Pythoff. Reminds me so much of Advanced Nutrients prices.
Fatman, I have a 150 gal res and i want to dose once a day, i think by your calcs it should end up 15 ml per 24 hr period. Am i close?
 

i420

Member
To Fatman, Rick and Dr.

For as smart as you all profess to be it is amazing to me how rude you all are.
None of you "smart" growers have room for another's opinion? Besides the fact
you cluttering up this thread with personal garbage your certainly proving to me
that you audience is tertiary to your own self promoting agendas.

I'm just an ignorant high school grad trying to get help on my grow. Who the fuck
cares how many certs you guys wipe your asses with? Did you forget about us?
The laypeeps that would rather listen to problem solvers than problems finders.

Now excuse my outburst but you guys are embarrassing and I'm here to ask you
to back burn the ego pissing contest and help us out here. PLEASE?

Even if you turn and focus your rants at me we would all benefit. After all I'm a noob
nobody with out any horticulture degrees AT ALL!

Peace ...... Man ..... peace already
 
The dosage of 8 drops per gallon is ytypically enoughto both treat Phyth cause (root rot) and as a preventative used to keep levels ofthe different types of Pythium at zero. If your water comes from a water treatment center or from a deep well the level of Pyth would have started at zero so your just using the chlorine to keep those levels at zero and also to oxidize the dead root matter so it will sluff of from the good part of the root mass there by preventing root rot caused by putrefication of dead roots. If your water is coming form an untreated water source such as a pond, lake, ditch beside your house or a very shallow well in an agricultural area then the levels of Pyth and types of Pyth that could be present could require a dosage of 16 drops of chlorine per gallon as an initial dose. After that initial killing dose the dosage would be 8 drops of chlorine per gallon as a preventative. I do not assume there are any people using untreated water from a pond or ditch so I did not address that earlier. Some open bodies of water can have Pyth strains that require 2 ppm concentrations for twenty to thirty minutes before they are eliminated. I doubt anyone uses anything but tap water or water from a deep well but it is possible someone does.

I do not use H2O2 for root rot as it has no residual effect. It does not have a residual effect and its results can not be readily measures as can the results from chlorine usage. It is also much easier to over dose H2O2 and therefore kill living roots and oxidize nutrient compounds. H2O2 is a very strong oxidizer.

I just wanted to say thank you and +rep. I just topped off my dwc bubbling buckets to the brim and added 8 drops/gal like you suggested and will hopefully solve my issues with this invisible root rot I'm experiencing.
 

MediMary

Well-Known Member
just so you guys know fatman7574 has been banned from here for at least a year, probably closer to 2..
he is banned on every cannabis site I visit as well. so he can't hear you :)
 

sfrenger

Active Member
Damnit, I think I used too much pythoff. I have one of my buds and some leaves that have completely dried out. Is this a side affect of using too strong a solution? I added more water to my nutrient solution to help dilute it. Plus, I use a lighter ppm solution than everyone else. Anybody have any input? Is this from having too strong a nutrient solution after using pythoff (roots too sensitive after treatment) or is this strictly from using too strong a mixture of the pythoff itself?
 

kcobr

Member
Your roots don't look bad - but mine don't either. Try to take clones and see if they take root. My plants are able to deal with the fungi but it kills my clones. The problem is that it gets in the stem.

To prevent it keep your water around 68 deg and don't let anything fall in.


You need to get to Grow store, and buy Dutch Master-Gold Range Zone, (1 qt. bttle, about 25 bucks) start hitting clones about a week after rooting, and keep hitting them every 2nd-3rd watering and that'll kill root rot. Next you need a systemic fungicide, get that and hit the H*** out of them, even if they stunt they'll come out of it. And the healthier they get, the less they will stunt, or even show your hitting w/that stuff. I guarantee you can get rid of rot problem w/the Zone, but you undoubtably also have a fungus in plants, that after 3rd-4th week of 12-12 your leaf will start drying, and wilting until whole plant(s) will die.....
 
Hey everyone, great read/rant. too bad fatman is gone...anyhow is Dutch Master Zone organic? can you run this in conjunction with the chlorine treatment?

MAYDAY:wall: I screwed up good this time. Maybe chlorine will be my answer.

Notice the yellow spotting on the leaves, this began 3 days ago. 7 days ago realized something was wrong, pH spiked from constant 5.8 to 6.5+ all the sudden and I've been using AN pH perfect with no ph issues until now. Ppm's became constant (before they were eating 50ppms a day), and then the smell came. This is when I realized the dreaded root rot was back :-(

I'm week 4 of 12/12, roots are brown as hell. Just hit them with clorine, azamax, physan 20, and H2O2 tonight, Final phase (clearex basically), dropped in a 13 watt UV sterilization light to my res, re-rigged my setup, and dropped the water temp from 68 to 64. No nutes in res currently, will continue this for 3 days? (advise)

My buckets (2 gal waterfarms, bucket in bucket with hydroton) WERE running RDWC (very retarded way now that i read a little morebongsmilie), I had water pumping in (1/2") the bottom of the buckets and would return to an overflow (3/4") i bulk headed 6 inches above see pic pump running 24/7. Roots always in water :-/ blah should've known, now reading I think I've got things setup right and solved what CAUSED the issue, now 'Houston we have a problem' and I'm on a mission to SAVE them from the root rot invaders!

Now I modified the setup, both lines serve as returns and I have drip feed rings [15 minutes] on [15 minutes off]. Which basically floods out the buckets for 15 minutes and water freely flows back to the res through both the 1/2" and 3/4" returns, and then the buckets are drained for 15.

My 1st question is, is the 15/15 interval good? I'm thinking thats too much but dunno here. Maybe: 15 on / 45 off? EDIT:I just switched to 15 minutes on, 1 hour 45 mins off before I head to bed.

2nd Question, will this system change help 'kill' the root rot by allowing air to reach the roots for 15 minutes?

3rd, I have an army of beneficial bacteria, Great White, ZHO, Tarantula. At this point in flowering should I try to eradicate with chlorine or hit them with the bennies and nix the chlorine physan this late into flowering?

I've been in this battle before and have not won, I need to WIN FOR ONCE! haha. Thanks in advance for your responses.:peace:


photo 2 (2).jpgphoto 2.jpgphoto 1.jpgphoto 1 (2).jpg
 

Malevolence

New Member
Zone is not organic; it is a sterilizer like h2o2, physan 20, bleach, etc. Most people are unable to defeat the slime with sterilization; it often ends up in a frustrating waste of time and money.

I would clean your bucket and roots with zone, or just mild bleach water, chlorine, etc. Make a fresh res and innoculate with Great White. That will most likely fix the problem and in a couple of days you should see new root tips.

However, if you want super powered benes, take a 5g bucket of room temp R/O water (74* F more or less). Add Great White and a good handful of ancient forest humus or earthworm castings in a stocking, and a couple tablespoons of blackstrap molasses (do not add this directly to your res). Bubble for 48 hours, inoculate your res with 1 cup of tea per gallon, and then just 1 cup total every 3 days until it is gone. Some foam and earthy smell is normal. You can save unused tea in the fridge for a few days, you can tell it's bad when it starts to smell like ass.

Stick with 100% synthetic nutes and additives until the slime is under control. Some known triggers of slime that you will want to avoid until this is handled are superthrive, roots excelurator, some AN products like wet betty and ph perfect, molasses, pretty much anything "organic" or with vitamins/hormones. Even AN benes (tarantula I think) are known to trigger slime... they use anaerobic bacteria which is one major difference, don't ask me the science behind microbes though. The roots being exposed to air like in ebb n flo make it very hard for root rot to take hold, so that should help as well.

Most likely you can just use the great white directly in the res, but brewing the tea will provide a sure way of beating the slime and make your benes last longer as well.

https://www.rollitup.org/dwc-bubbleponics/361430-dwc-root-slime-cure-aka.html
 

karmeron

Active Member
Hey everyone, great read/rant. too bad fatman is gone...anyhow is Dutch Master Zone organic? can you run this in conjunction with the chlorine treatment?

MAYDAY:wall: I screwed up good this time. Maybe chlorine will be my answer.

Notice the yellow spotting on the leaves, this began 3 days ago. 7 days ago realized something was wrong, pH spiked from constant 5.8 to 6.5+ all the sudden and I've been using AN pH perfect with no ph issues until now. Ppm's became constant (before they were eating 50ppms a day), and then the smell came. This is when I realized the dreaded root rot was back :-(

I'm week 4 of 12/12, roots are brown as hell. Just hit them with clorine, azamax, physan 20, and H2O2 tonight, Final phase (clearex basically), dropped in a 13 watt UV sterilization light to my res, re-rigged my setup, and dropped the water temp from 68 to 64. No nutes in res currently, will continue this for 3 days? (advise)

My buckets (2 gal waterfarms, bucket in bucket with hydroton) WERE running RDWC (very retarded way now that i read a little morebongsmilie), I had water pumping in (1/2") the bottom of the buckets and would return to an overflow (3/4") i bulk headed 6 inches above see pic pump running 24/7. Roots always in water :-/ blah should've known, now reading I think I've got things setup right and solved what CAUSED the issue, now 'Houston we have a problem' and I'm on a mission to SAVE them from the root rot invaders!

Now I modified the setup, both lines serve as returns and I have drip feed rings [15 minutes] on [15 minutes off]. Which basically floods out the buckets for 15 minutes and water freely flows back to the res through both the 1/2" and 3/4" returns, and then the buckets are drained for 15.

My 1st question is, is the 15/15 interval good? I'm thinking thats too much but dunno here. Maybe: 15 on / 45 off? EDIT:I just switched to 15 minutes on, 1 hour 45 mins off before I head to bed.

2nd Question, will this system change help 'kill' the root rot by allowing air to reach the roots for 15 minutes?

3rd, I have an army of beneficial bacteria, Great White, ZHO, Tarantula. At this point in flowering should I try to eradicate with chlorine or hit them with the bennies and nix the chlorine physan this late into flowering?

I've been in this battle before and have not won, I need to WIN FOR ONCE! haha. Thanks in advance for your responses.:peace:
wow thats a lot of products mentioned lol

only way i have fixed it before was, wash the whole system out with bleach, then run a few ml's bleach, I had white roots in a few days, H2O2 wouldnt fix it, thats just my experience
 
Thanks for the quick response gents :bigjoint:. I'll run the bleach for another day or so and see what happens. I'll be amazed if I save these plants, it seems doubtful at this point given how brown the roots are.

I've messed around with the tea using that formula, but it was my hydro setup that was wrong. So I am considering flushing with water in a day and trying the tea again :D

This is the exact same thing that happened to me last grow. The yellow spotting on the leaves increased noticeably every day until harvest once the root rot was established, slowly killing the plant. So IF, and only IF i kill off my enemy the yellow spotting should in theory slow or stop if the plant begins to recover!

So only time will tell. I'll keep updates coming on my progress.
 
wow thats a lot of products mentioned lol

only way i have fixed it before was, wash the whole system out with bleach, then run a few ml's bleach, I had white roots in a few days, H2O2 wouldnt fix it, thats just my experience
Haha yeah, hopefully 1 of them kills something, I just hope they all work ok together lol. Yeah basically H2O2 is garbage for hydroponics. I also use if for cleaning my equipment, I have the 29%, and soak all my pumps, fittings, etc. directly in that it, you can see it reacting like crazy, cleans really well at high concentrations with a little scrubbing. wear gloves and goggles, this shit will eat your skin at 29%.

I think the verdict is in: H2O2 = USELESS in HYDRO.:dunce:
 
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