Killakc's Blue Dream, Tang Haze, Sour Kush, Chem Dawg, 1000w 5x5 Soil

K

killakc916

Member
EDIT: All feedback is welcomed.

Soil: Roots Organics non-ammended
Nutes: Soul Synthetics Player Pack
Water: Combination of distilled, purified, and tap.
Room Conditions: Temp doesn't usually get above 78 or below 72. Night time is below 70 but not below 60.
RH is anywhere from 40-65%
Light: 1000w MH/HPS switchable



The big girl in back is Blue Dream. She is about 3 months old and has had a very rough life. But after being moved to the 5 gal pot, she is really looking beastly and you can tell this is where she will thrive. Still not sure when I want to flower, so she may even go up to a 7 gal pot.

The 4 even-sized girls are bagseed. The survivors of my first 10 seeds I ever planted. They are almost 7 weeks from seed. They were all LST'd from 2 weeks and none of them is taller than 9". But they all have from 8-12+ tops and more nodes than I can easily count. They're in 3 gal containers from 1 gal containers. Just a week ago, I transplanted and I can already see roots poking thru the bottom again. They're probably going to be transplanted to 5 or maybe even 7 gal pots before I flower.

Far back are the 2 Tang Haze plants. Didn't get any solo pic of them. And there are 3 bagseedlings (have a good feeling they're Chem 4) in the middle along with the other 4 clones by the wall: Sour K and Chem Dawg.

This room has gone thru a ridiculous amount of change. The wall used to be made out of a tarp and a zipper door. Intake and outtake were both fudged out of cardboard to keep light in/out. There were still some little leaks. I built a wall because I kept having to re-seal the tarp to the wall. The new wall is about 99% air tight (besides ventilation system) and 100% light proof. Anyone interested in seeing how the room and plants have progressed can check out my other thread.

https://www.rollitup.org/grow-room-design-setup/616014-first-grow-room-pics.html


I am really interested in taking this in the scrog direction. Seems like you get a much better yield from scrog (haven't really seen an exception to that rule, so if anyone can tell me why I shouldn't scrog, let's hear it.



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K

killakc916

Member
Hey thanks for the awesome feedback.

I was finally able to build my scrog screen. I made it with some 2x2's and screws every 3 inches. Then I stretched string as tight as I could get it, wove it all in one piece through all the screws and the screen is very solid. Trying to water all these plants under the screen is going to be fun lol. It's really gonna suck to need to flush. I'll give them another week or two before I switch into flowering. I figure the scrog will be nice and green very soon.

You can see I already switched to the HPS. I hadn't had a chance to get the setup dialed in under the HPS, so I figured I would change that early. Still on the 18/6 schedule for now though.


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That board that says r-tech on the back is some reflective insulation. The other side is great for keeping light. It comes in a 4x8 sheet from home depot. I like it because I can move it around as I need. First time growing + me being indecisive = this room moving around 100 times in a month. I think I have a set up I really like now though.

Keep the comments coming.

I'd like some experienced scroggers in this thread. My screen is about 4.5x4.5 and I've got about 3.5x4.5 filled. Plants are still under a foot and the 1000w light is about 2 ft from the canopy. It looks to me like I have mostly indica strains. I don't think they'll stretch too much, but nothing in this game happens the way you think. Anyway, I'm looking for confirmation that I still should veg longer.
 
K

killakc916

Member
So I got some new gear in a trade this week. A 400w HPS dual-spectrum in a cool tube, T5's and a timer and environment controller. And a new fan and ducting. So I got to work. Also built a flood table so I won't have to move these ladies around once they're flowering. It's working great so far.


Having a couple problems though. I'm pretty sure it's mag def. I foliar fed GO CalMg+ at 1/4 strength and since they were all thirsty today, I gave them another 1/4 strength in their water. I know it won't clear up right away, but if anyone can spot other problems in my plants, please let me know.

I really want to flower soon, these girls are getting pretty big. And I have all the things I need to clone off the Blue Dream and start my perpetual grow now. Just don't wanna start with deficiencies since these are feminized seeds. I read that will increase herm chances.

A little help would be nice. :)


I see the claw that looks like N overdose to me. From what little I really know. Can anyone comment? Thanks

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K

killakc916

Member
The 12th-25th pictures show what I think will into bigger problems.

+Rep for anyone that will make a guess as to what's going on here.

I'm suspicious of magnesium.
 
Curiosity2

Curiosity2

Active Member
Well to start with, I would stop making new threads or journals;you are losing your followers stick with one. I have read all 3 and I am a littleconfused, can you give me a quick run-down on the last 2 week, did you feed andhow much, is your PH pen calibrated correctly.
 
Curiosity2

Curiosity2

Active Member
I curious to why you switch to HPS before you went to 12/12.I’ve heard of leaving the MH in for at least 2 week after flip but neverswitching before the flip!
 
K

killakc916

Member
I guess I could've just asked a mod to move the other thread here. Regardless, I will be sticking with this thread here as my journal until they're all chopped down.

So the last 2 weeks, I fed them once (if you saw my other thread, the guy told me to skip feeding and water a few times). So I did. Finally fed again 3 days ago. Soul Synthetics Player Pack minus the Grow-N part. I know they were starving because they put on some serious growth directly after feeding. And then 2 days ago, I foliar fed half of a light feeding of CaMg+ and yesterday I watered with half a light feeding of GO CaMg+. When I feed my ppms are around 800. I don't get to feed full strength because my tap ppms are above 200 and PH down brings ppm up more so then I have to cut my food until I can come to 800 ppm AND have my ph balanced right. Big pain in the ass. Does that ppm sound too high or low? The girls in question are almost 2 months from poking their little helmets out of the ground.

And as for switching my light, I did it to start flowering. But SOMEONE forgot to change my TIMER to 12/12. So I took it as a sign that we weren't ready to flower yet. Never changed the bulb back because I'm a procrastinator. They seem to be doing just fine under the HPS still and without extra stretch from what I can tell.

I do know I sure would be sad if I was 2 weeks into flower trying to figure out what the hell is wrong with my plants, so I guess it's not the worst thing ever. They don't seem to be growing any differently than under the MH and like I said, it's been almost 2 weeks now.

And sorry for any confusion. I go through a lot of thoughts and don't always remember who I shared them with and who knows what. Thank you very much for your quick response though. All the best from me and my girls.


EDIT: And no, I'm not trying to only feed CaMg+, I did that just the other day to try and counter the deficiency. I was about 95% certain it would help before I added it.
 
Curiosity2

Curiosity2

Active Member
I think you have everything under control now, fed 3 days ago. The damage to the leaves looks like a phosphorus deficiency but unfortunately damage to the leaves is irreversible. Phosphorus begins lockout at 6.4.

Here is something to think about now I don’t see many people using what I’m about to say on RIU but it does work with good results. If you’re home often, at least once a day try to setup a feeding schedule, say every Monday, feed on Monday but don’t soak the soil, give them enough water/nutes so the soil will be damp for only 2 to 3 days. Now from the 4th day on water the soil with straight water just enough to keep it moist, never soak it because it needs to be dry again by Monday. Continue this same schedule every week.

I don’t know why people soak the soil with a small flush when they feed; it takes days and maybe a week or more to dry out, then they soak the soil again with straight water, taking yet another week or so to dry out. I think it’s best to do light watering’s and feed once a week, I will mention some of the benefits; the plant never gets overwatered, less risk of root rot. If nute burn should accrue but it shouldn’t using this method, flushing will be easy, many small flushes will throw off the soil PH, so the benefit will be avoiding this and I think you're already experiencing this. There is less of a chance of nute burn because the plant is never drenched with ferts and 2 to 3 days later the nutes in the soil are diluted with a light watering.

The plant will also come to like and “know” this schedule, just as they kinda know it's time to go to sleep as they get droopy an hour before the light turn off.

A man that is currently behind bars because he was caught growing 500 plants told me to water this way, and let’s just say, he had very good results until he was caught.
 
K

killakc916

Member
Curiosity2 said:
I think you have everything under control now, fed 3 days ago. The damage to the leaves looks like a phosphorus deficiency but unfortunately damage to the leaves is irreversible. Phosphorus begins lockout at 6.4.

Here is something to think about now I don’t see many people using what I’m about to say on RIU but it does work with good results. If you’re home often, at least once a day try to setup a feeding schedule, say every Monday, feed on Monday but don’t soak the soil, give them enough water/nutes so the soil will be damp for only 2 to 3 days. Now from the 4th day on water the soil with straight water just enough to keep it moist, never soak it because it needs to be dry again by Monday. Continue this same schedule every week.

I don’t know why people soak the soil with a small flush when they feed; it takes days and maybe a week or more to dry out, then they soak the soil again with straight water, taking yet another week or so to dry out. I think it’s best to do light watering’s and feed once a week, I will mention some of the benefits; the plant never gets overwatered, less risk of root rot. If nute burn should accrue but it shouldn’t using this method, flushing will be easy, many small flushes will throw off the soil PH, so the benefit will be avoiding this and I think you're already experiencing this. There is less of a chance of nute burn because the plant is never drenched with ferts and 2 to 3 days later the nutes in the soil are diluted with a light watering.

The plant will also come to like and “know” this schedule, just as they kinda know it's time to go to sleep as they get droopy an hour before the light turn off.

A man that is currently behind bars because he was caught growing 500 plants told me to water this way, and let’s just say, he had very good results until he was caught.
Click to expand...
I am definitely guilty of watering heavy, but not when I feed. I tend to feed JUST to the point where I see run off, maybe slightly more. But I will definitely employ your watering technique in the future, that makes a lot of sense. Even when I water to waste though, my girls are still ready to drink 2 or 3 days later. I mean I can put as many gallons of water as soil through and more than the top 1/5 of the soil is usually dry before the 3rd day. This Roots Organics Original soil is not amended with anything.

So when you're saying it looks like phosphorous, are you looking at the pictures I posted in the other thread or the last pictures in this thread? Or maybe you came to that conclusion from looking at both? Just want to make sure, I would have bet money on magnesium. And after feeding this last time (3 days ago) was when the new spotting started showing up. The new deficiency is more like 'spotting' than the 'splotchy' look that I thought phosphorous gave. The pictures I posted in the other thread look like phos to me for sure or what I thought could be nute burn.

Please don't take me the wrong way, I'm not trying to tell you you're wrong, I just want to make sure we're both on the same page here. And I'm sure your explanation will help me understand better.

I may have said some things in the other thread that I didn't say here btw
 
Curiosity2

Curiosity2

Active Member

Brace yourself this is a long one, I hope the length of my post doesn’t overwhelm you and you miss out on the important things.

I just finished reading up on Roots Organics soil. Is there lots of Perlite in your soil, I hope you added a little powder lime? Well if you did or you didn’t it’s too late now, just make sure you’re putting in PH water of 6.5 and don’t worry about the runoff PH because where there is no extra lime in the soil the PH runoff will be set by the plant (believe me or not). You can add a little powder lime to your water ONCE and give to the plants it may help.

So when you're saying it looks like phosphorous, are you looking at the pictures I posted in the other thread or the last pictures in this thread?
Click to expand...
To answer your question, I have made my conclusion based on both sets of pictures and also what information you have provided, the amount of fertilizer used and the mini little flushes.

The new deficiency is more like 'spotting' than the 'splotchy' look that I thought phosphorous gave.
Click to expand...
This is a Potassium Deficiency.

I know that most deficiencies appear to have the same effect on the leaves at first but after you have been growing for a while it will be easy to spot the difference. I don’t know many people that can look at a leaf and tell you the deficiency without knowing how the plant has been treated.

First here is a little info on phosphorous; it will start to lockout at 6.4 and lower, cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil will also aide in a lockout. This is why I asked about Perlite, do you have compacted soil? Also a deficiency will accrue from lack of food obviously; I think this is your culprit.
View attachment 2568594

Next is Potassium, you will see yellowing on the edges but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue) and little brown dots in the leaf center,throughout. I think you said your seeing this now after fertilizing but the damage is probably a result from the lack of food before the feeding.
View attachment 2568595


I have a hard time telling the difference between magnesium and a nitrogen deficiency but the yellowing will be a bit different.


Here is a picture of the Magnesium deficiency.
View attachment 2568607


Here is a picture of the Nitrogen difference.

N def.jpg

Because I have a hard time distinguishing, I add Epson Salts to my water at a rate of 8 grams or 1 teaspoon per gal, that amount will raise your water by 150 to 200ppm. If you do this every two or three weeks, no more than this, you should never have Magnesium problems. I too have calcium in my water, which can lockout other nutrients, so I use a source of Magnesium that doesn’t add any more calcium. Bath salts or Epson Salts (same thing) is under $5 at Wal-Mart.

no matter how much water is given they dry right out in a couple of days BUT the bottom is still a little damp.
Click to expand...
I touch on this in my last post but I think you missed out on something I said so here is another go at it.

If you are home every day give them just enough water for the day. This method of watering is far superior over the drench and drain which will leach out the soil's goodness. Picture this, here is another advantage; right now you have a deficiency from lack of food and maybe a little PH problem (I hope you can rest easy about this) but lets say the soil is super saturated with water, don’t want to water again in fear of overwatering, so you would have to foliar feed to add nutes. If your soil is dry every morning before you go to work, you can always mix up a batch of food and apply when you need to.

I hope this post has accomplished what it was intended to do. Rest easy you have just given then some food and maybe give then some more in a day or two. I know you burnt then at first with that rapid rooter shit, but they were small then, now they are a lot bigger and can take full strength nutesONCE a week if you follow my watering suggestions or if you want to drench and drain then feed every other drenching.

 
K

killakc916

Member
Curiosity2 said:

Brace yourself this is a long one, I hope the length of my post doesn’t overwhelm you and you miss out on the important things.

I just finished reading up on Roots Organics soil. Is there lots of Perlite in your soil, I hope you added a little powder lime? Well if you did or you didn’t it’s too late now, just make sure you’re putting in PH water of 6.5 and don’t worry about the runoff PH because where there is no extra lime in the soil the PH runoff will be set by the plant (believe me or not). You can add a little powder lime to your water ONCE and give to the plants it may help.
Click to expand...


In my unknowing opinion I think there is enough perlite in my soil. But I say again, I don't know really. I didn't add lime because I asked the guy at the shop and he said I didn't really need it. When I originally washed my soil, I check the ph and that was 6.5, but since you said not to worry about run off, I guess that's irrelevant without lime added.



To answer your question, I have made my conclusion based on both sets of pictures and also what information you have provided, the amount of fertilizer used and the mini little flushes.
Click to expand...
Just wanted to make sure you were getting the full story. Thank you.



This is a Potassium Deficiency.

I know that most deficiencies appear to have the same effect on the leaves at first but after you have been growing for a while it will be easy to spot the difference. I don’t know many people that can look at a leaf and tell you the deficiency without knowing how the plant has been treated.
Click to expand...
They sure as hell do lol
First here is a little info on phosphorous; it will start to lockout at 6.4 and lower, cold wet soils, acid or very alkaline soils, compacted soil will also aide in a lockout. This is why I asked about Perlite, do you have compacted soil? Also a deficiency will accrue from lack of food obviously; I think this is your culprit.
View attachment 2568594[/QUOTE]

As for cold wet soils, I had a portable swamp cooler in my room to help with the heat before I situated my ventilation. It was close to the plants and blowing on the pots. I stopped using the A/C except for hotter days I need to kick it on for about an hour but it's a lot further from the plants too.

I don't feel that my soil is very compacted. I don't pack it in when I transplant or anything. Just water it in and add a little more if it needs it.

So in your experience, is 6.2 low enough to lock P out and cause damage like in the picture?

I got a chance to pull the plants out and look in the daylight and I can definitely see P being an issue, but since they all look the same to me still, I'm not convinced that's the only thing going on.
Click to expand...
Next is Potassium, you will see yellowing on the edges but soon develop dark necrotic lesions (dead tissue) and little brown dots in the leaf center,throughout. I think you said your seeing this now after fertilizing but the damage is probably a result from the lack of food before the feeding.
View attachment 2568595
Click to expand...


The spots on the top leaves don't look familiar, but the yellower looking lower leaves kind of do remind me of mine now that I look closer.
I have a hard time telling the difference between magnesium and a nitrogen deficiency but the yellowing will be a bit different.


Here is a picture of the Magnesium deficiency.
View attachment 2568607

Click to expand...


I definitely saw some of this going on, I got a pretty decent picture of it but my computer won't cooperate with me right now so I'll upload it later. It's so hard to get good pictures I feel like that actually show what I see lol, but I try to only upload the ones that do.
Here is a picture of the Nitrogen difference.

View attachment 2568608

Because I have a hard time distinguishing, I add Epson Salts to my water at a rate of 8 grams or 1 teaspoon per gal, that amount will raise your water by 150 to 200ppm. If you do this every two or three weeks, no more than this, you should never have Magnesium problems. I too have calcium in my water, which can lockout other nutrients, so I use a source of Magnesium that doesn’t add any more calcium. Bath salts or Epson Salts (same thing) is under $5 at Wal-Mart.
Click to expand...

Not really sure that I recognize this, but I say again, I don't really know. And I'm not very confident in my plant diagnosing skills anymore lol, I think it's everything.

So I was considering switching to RO or getting an undersink RO system for the garden. But I do understand tap water has a lot of good metals in it as well. I'll give the epsom salt thing a try.
[QUOTE]


I touch on this in my last post but I think you missed out on something I said so here is another go at it.

If you are home every day give them just enough water for the day. This method of watering is far superior over the drench and drain which will leach out the soil's goodness. Picture this, here is another advantage; right now you have a deficiency from lack of food and maybe a little PH problem (I hope you can rest easy about this) but lets say the soil is super saturated with water, don’t want to water again in fear of overwatering, so you would have to foliar feed to add nutes. If your soil is dry every morning before you go to work, you can always mix up a batch of food and apply when you need to.

I hope this post has accomplished what it was intended to do. Rest easy you have just given then some food and maybe give then some more in a day or two. I know you burnt then at first with that rapid rooter shit, but they were small then, now they are a lot bigger and can take full strength nutesONCE a week if you follow my watering suggestions or if you want to drench and drain then feed every other drenching.
Click to expand...
I definitely did miss your point before, I understand what you mean now though. Thank you for clarifying that.

So as for lack of food and PH problem.... As I said, I have been (thinking in my mind) that I need to cut the ppm down to 800. I just mixed a full strength mix for week 5 plant (mine are more like 7 weeks, but 5 weeks is all it goes to on their schedule). The ppm is right at 1050. Ph was 5.2 but I read that if I aerate with airstone and circ pump, beneficial microbes come into play. (I let a mix sit for a day or two and I saw all kinds of foam at the top. Which went away in another day or two by the time I was ready to feed and had become settled nutrients.) I also read that I should let the mix stabilize for about 24 hours to let PH come back up.

After 24 hours it is naturally around 6.5 PH anyhow, should I try to feed then? And does the ppm increase from the PH Down powder affect what my plants do with it?

Will I be okay to feed the 1050 ppm solution? And is that a reasonable amount to feed everytime or just to pull out of deficiency?

I do have General Organics nutes too and those don't have any special instructions for mix and wait a day or aerate or anything. Would be easier to feed whenever that way.


I was planning on feeding the Soul Synthetics tomorrow because they'll be nice and dry by then. I really am looking at these plants thinking maybe they're really hungry lol and hoping the next feed will help.

I truly do appreciate you taking the time to help me out with this.
 
Curiosity2

Curiosity2

Active Member
I haven’t got the time tonight to answer all your questions, I’m headed out but a fertilizing of 1080 is waaayyyyy toooooo much. I can’t remember your starting ppms but I would put around 600 to 700 ppms not counting the starting ppms. Your brand of ferts sound way too complicated for me. Mix let sit, aerate, let sit some more, two days later use if the foam is gone and whatever else, I would find a better water supply with a higher PH starting point to offset the buffers in the ferts or change brands. I’ll answer what questions I can tomorrow, I have the day off from work.
 
K

killakc916

Member
http://www.aurorainnovations.org/AuroraInnovations_SoulFeedingSchedule.pdf

That's my feeding schedule. The instructions for use aren't complicated at all. I was just explaining what I went through.

I think the foam was the bennies and that I should've used it when I saw the foam. But if Aurora Innovations would answer my e-mail, I feel I asked them questions that would really help me out. The PH will climb back up the longer it sits, so it's not like the PH is stuck at 5.3. My last mix, it climbed all the way to 8.4 because I didn't use it for so long. After a day now, it's almost to 5.5

PPM is still at 1030, but I'll add tap water to it until my PH is at 6.5 and see if I can skate without adding PH Down this time and increasing PPM for no benefit. Starting PPM was 120 this time, so I'll push it to 830 if I don't have to add PH Down to balance things.
 
K

killakc916

Member
Well now I feel like a dumbass. PH pen was definitely wrong, reading about .5 over. It's fixed now but obviously I shouldn't be feeding right because these are lockout issues? Or would you suggest I feed-flush with like 1/4 nutes. I've heard that helps to not wash away all the nutrients from the soil and to help fix PH problems.
 
Curiosity2

Curiosity2

Active Member
Sorry mate, I ended up going away for a couple of days, how are things holding up. The pen not calibrated correctly, would be a bummer, you got to use storage solution or plan on recalibrating often. The storage solution slows the offset that is sure to accrue. What has been your approach in the garden of green smelly sweetness?
 
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