Ketamine ~ Any takers ? Why so taboo ?

HeatlessBBQ said:

You are talking to someone who has been using ketamine recreationally AND entheogenically for 6+ years now.
Maybe it shows how irresponsible most people are with Their drug use . . .

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and yes that is exactly the point, this is not a drug to me used by the masses as it can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, or unknowledgable

HeatlessBBQ said:

Wrong hands ARE the unknowledgeable ones AND the inexperienced people who think They know certain experiences without having Them. . .

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We can agree to disagree, still not a drug for the masses

here's a list of a few drugs and their ld50, or lethal dose for 50% of the trial that has taken such drug..
ld50 is listed as a ratio, mg per kilogram of body mass.. below are some common drugs and their ld50..

first up is the ld50 for ketamine, which is 447mg/ per kg mass..
LD50-LC50 Mixture: RAT ORAL LD50: 447 MG/KG

LD50s for Various Substances
(with ratios regarding relative safety/toxicity)
========================================================================
Typical "Safety Ratio"
Substance LD50 route animal Human Dose LD50=Doses/50Kg
-------------- ------------------------------ ---------- ----------------
LSD 46 mg/Kg iv mice 0.25 mg o 9200
16.5 mg/Kg iv rats 3300
.3 mg/Kg iv rabbits 60

Psilocybin 285 mg/Kg iv mice 12-20 mg o 1187 - 712
280 mg/Kg iv rats 1166 - 700
12.5 mg/Kg iv rabbit 52 - 31

DMT 110 mg/kg im mouse 60 mg im 91

DET 28 mg/kg iv mouse 60 mg im/po 23

5-MeO-DMT 115 mg/kg ip mouse 6 mg p 958

DPT 20 mg/kg iv mouse 60 mg po 16

DIPT 26 mg/kg iv mouse 30 mg o 43

THC 1270 mg/Kg o rats(male) 20mg o 3175
730 mg/Kg o rats(female) 20mg o 1825
105.7 mg/Kg iv rats 5mg(smoked) 1057
42 mg/Kg (inhalation) rats 5mg(smoked) 420

Caffeine 127 mg/Kg o mice (male) 100-200mg o 63 - 31
137 mg/Kg o mice (female) 68 - 34
230 mg/Kg o hamster(male) 115 - 57
249 mg/Kg o hamster(female) 124 - 62
355 mg/Kg o rat(male) 177 - 88
247 mg/Kg o rat(female) 123 - 61
246 mg/Kg o rabbit(male) 123 - 61
227 mg/Kg o rabbit(female) 113 - 56

Nicotine 230 mg/Kg o mice
9.5 mg/Kg ip mice .7mg(smoked) 675
.3 mg/Kg iv mice 21

Aspirin 1100 mg/Kg o mice 325mg o 169
1500 mg/Kg o rats 230

Acetaminophen 338 mg/Kg o mice 500mg o 33.8
500 mg/Kg ip mice 50

Vitamin A 2570 mg/Kg o mice 10-20mg o 12850 - 6425
1510 mg/Kg ip mice 7550 - 3775

Strychnine .96 mg/Kg iv rats .25mg o 192
(relative to 1 hit of LSD)
Succinyl Choline .45 mg/Kg iv mice

VX (nerve gas) .0154 mg/Kg iv rabbits 0 mg none
-------------- ------------------------------ ---------- ----------------
Substance LD50 route animal Human Dose LD50=Doses/50Kg
Typical (safety ratio)
========================================================================

================================================================
Substance Reckoned Safety Ratio (Closest Available Analogy)
-------------- -------------------------------------------------
Vitamin A 9637 (mice oral:human oral 15mg)
LSD 4816 (rodents iv:human oral 0.25mg),averaged
5-MeO-DMT 958 (mice intraperitoneal:human parenteral 6mg)
Psilocybin 641 (rodents iv:human oral 16mg),averaged
THC 420 (rats inhaled:human smoked 5mg)
Aspirin 199 (rodents oral:human oral 325mg),averaged
DMT 91 (mice intramuscular:human intramuscular 60mg)
Caffeine 84 (rodents oral:human oral 150mg),averaged
Acetaminophen 34 (mice oral:human oral 500mg)
Nicotine 21 (mice iv:human smoked 0.7mg)
VX (Nerve Gas) 0 (just a hunch)
===============================================================

Abbreviations:
iv = intravenous (injected into vein)
ip = intraperitoneal (injected into body cavity)
im = intramuscular (injected into muscles)
o = oral (swallowed or eaten)
p = parenteral (not by mouth / usually means 'inhaled' or
'snorted')
mg/Kg = milligrams of drug per Kilogram of body weight
mg = milligrams of drug

NOTES:

All LD50's are normalized to milligrams/Kilogram of animal's body
weight.

All LD50 data were found in the "The Merck Index, 11th edition".

The "LD50" is the dose of a substance that will kill a selected
species of experimental animal 50% of the time.

"Typical Human Dose" info is taken from various sources, including
"Burger's Medicinal Chemistry", "Journal of Psychedelic Drugs",
"The Merck Manual", "NIOSH Registry of Toxic Effects of Chemical
Substances",
cigarette packages, No-Doz bottles, etc.

as you can see, ketamine has a lower ld50 than such drugs as say, hmm, caffeine, nicotine, and tylenol.. so yah, speaking strictly ld50, or half of the people who take that dose dying, ketamine is a fairly safe drug..

You take the good.
You take the bad.
You get em both.
And ther you have.

The facts of life.

Wow the LD50 which is a lethal dose of ketamine is 447mg/ per kg mass.. ?!?!
LMAO !!!!! Well there is some proof for You all.
250+ mgs will knock someone out into solid 7 hour sleep.

I challenge anyone to do 400+ mgs of ketamine at once !!!!

HeatlessBBQ said:

And it's SO unsafe . . .

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It is true it is the safest sedative for surgical use. It is still more dangerous than many other drugs due to effects on the nervous system. It can stop the gag reflex cold and you can asphyxiated on vomit. Dosage is the biggest factor, too much is dangerous.

I've done it too, just keeping it real.

HeatlessBBQ said:

Wow the LD50 which is a lethal dose of ketamine is 447mg/ per kg mass.. ?!?!
LMAO !!!!! Well there is some proof for You all.
250+ mgs will knock someone out into solid 7 hour sleep.

I challenge anyone to do 400+ mgs of ketamine at once !!!!

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I did about 350, intramuscular. Don't recommend it lol.
You don't want to get anywhere near ld50, you'll start seeing deaths way before that dosage. Ld50 is where half the rats are dead, ld01 can be as low as 5-10% of that dose.

8thGenFarmer said:

I did about 350, intramuscular. Don't recommend it lol.
You don't want to get anywhere near ld50, you'll start seeing deaths way before that dosage. Ld50 is where half the rats are dead, ld01 can be as low as 5-10% of that dose.

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even if you take your 10% claim for ld1, that's a wooping 4063 mg for a 200 pound man, i'd love to see someone take 4 grams of k..
200 divided by 2.2, 90 x 44.7, 4063.6363 mg.s

HeatlessBBQ said:

Wow the LD50 which is a lethal dose of ketamine is 447mg/ per kg mass.. ?!?!
LMAO !!!!! Well there is some proof for You all.
250+ mgs will knock someone out into solid 7 hour sleep.

I challenge anyone to do 400+ mgs of ketamine at once !!!!

Click to expand...

that 400 mg's is per kilogram of body mass heatless, so for a 200 pound man, you'd have to times that by 90, or 40230 mg's if me maths is correct..

racerboy71 said:

even if you take your 10% claim for ld1, that's a wooping 4063 mg for a 200 pound man, i'd love to see someone take 4 grams of k..
200 divided by 2.2, 90 x 44.7, 4063.6363 mg.s

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or even if we go by the 5% mark, it's still well over 2 grams for an ld1 for a 200 pound person to create an ld1, if what you say is true of the ld1 being a 5% dose of the ld50..

StevieBevie said:

and I have worked with the drug in my profession for 25 years..and no it is not a safe drug for recreational use.

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I wouldn't waste another second of my time trying to explain it. The moral of the story- the people with the most clinical experience with ketamine say it's dangerous. There is always that retard that hasn't been burned yet that thinks he's fireproof.

racerboy71 said:

or even if we go by the 5% mark, it's still well over 2 grams for an ld1 for a 200 pound person to create an ld1, if what you say is true of the ld1 being a 5% dose of the ld50..

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Just an estimate based on other ld charts I've seen. There's always outliers in populations, individuals who either die at much lower or much higher dosages. Excellent points though.

If I'm ever discussing drugs with people I encourage caution rather than confidence. Safer than sorrier jusf be careful out there!

8thGenFarmer said:

It is true it is the safest sedative for surgical use. It is still more dangerous than many other drugs due to effects on the nervous system. It can stop the gag reflex cold and you can asphyxiated on vomit. Dosage is the biggest factor, too much is dangerous.

I've done it too, just keeping it real.

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It's surgical use is RELATIVELY safe only because they are being monitored by diagnostic equipment and are in the direct care (the anesthesia practitioner cannot even leave the room) of people who have extensive training.

b4ds33d said:

I wouldn't waste another second of my time trying to explain it. The moral of the story- the people with the most clinical experience with ketamine say it's dangerous. There is always that retard that hasn't been burned yet that thinks he's fireproof.

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Thank you, that is all I am trying to get across. It can be dangerous, and even more so in a street form. I would never want any young people reading this to think this is a recreational drug that they should mess with. People do not die smoking a joint, people could die using this chemical.

b4ds33d said:

It's surgical use is RELATIVELY safe only because they are being monitored by diagnostic equipment and are in the direct care (the anesthesia practitioner cannot even leave the room) of people who have extensive training.

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It's like being the safest motorcycle. It's a relative statement. If anything goes wrong you'll wish you were in a Volvo.

I made a similar statement earlier, we needed anesthesia trained Vet around when we sedated the baboons, Otherwise they could die. We do tend the give the baboons bigger doses than a recreational user but it's important for people to know how pros use it.