Kalkaska's Prosecutor Killed

rzza said:

You guys should google this asshole, yes he was so against mmj that he was using loopholes in his favor.
I read somewhere he had a botanist come in and give his opinion on what is a plant. The dude says if it has roots its a plant (which goes against the dictionary definition stating a plant is a PLANTABLE shrub, tree, bush etc...) and so the asshole made it protocol during mmj raids, to pull each plant out of the dirt to see if there are roots while counting them.

This is something I read, I dont know how a prosecuter sets protocol or anything ...

Click to expand...

spot on rzza I know the guy in that case.

purklize said:

Richard Neill of Petoskey was sentenced to 1 year in jail recently. The way they got him was weighing a dead male plant composting in his backyard.

BuddyGanga, you are wrong. Let's see you admit that. These injustices exist. Just how sheltered a life have you lived? Even those who have not broken the law are rarely so naive as yourself.

You are also good at not answering pointed questions. Dodge, dodge... so again I ask.. here, I'll bold it so you can't miss it... Should an AIDS patient caught with mmj in Michigan in 2007 have gone to jail? It was illegal, ya know...

Click to expand...

ismokealotofpot said:

donnaly threw a man with a brain tumor in jail over one beer and told him he cant have his chemo or his cannabis. OH ya you think the guy was doing the rite thing.

Click to expand...

I am no longer surprised that so many choose to apply their own logic to my very deliberate comments.
When you've got to change anything I've posted to make your point you become irrelevant.

I say it doesn't happen as much as people claim it does and someone comprehends it as it never happens.
I say the guy is doing his job and someone comprehends it as he's doing the right thing.
I say there is more to something and someone comprehends it as it never happened.

I don't know if it's deliberate or if I'm discussing this with people of a lower intellect but after all of the national adds for phonics tapes it's a choice either way.

Purk, here's a little information on the Richard Neill case, written by Richard Neill himself explaining the charges.

Posted 13 February 2011 - 06:18 AM

Hey everyone! JimD, thanks for your support dude!
Court update: Feb 18th is a hearing just filed by the prosecutor to prevent me from using the MMJ defense, OR the AD defense. This is based on NO CARD in possesion during the time of the raid..(I had a certification from 10 days earlier), and unsecured location, (they hopped the fence, stood on a chair outside, and BROKE IN!), 1000 feet of a SCHOOl ZONE, (300 feet from elementary school, and OVERAGES..( 2 lbs approx of leaf, stalks, seeds etc. In a paper-bag). I see the arguments on my side, but am having trouble writing a response. Anyone that has any ideas...

Since you post on the same site I found this information on I am sure you knew this already.
Still want to make the claim it was due to one male plant in a compost pile ?

Did I not say there is more to the story and I would have to be naive to believe that's all there was to it ?
Now what was that again about admitting wrong ?
To bad my life hasn't been so sheltered that I was never told about Google.

Not bad for a guy that comes across as a fool and a coward.

IIRC it was a DEAD MALE that finished him in court (pushed him over his weight limit). The affirmative defense should have covered him. It says so explicitly in our law. Once you're certified, you're protected not from arrest, but charges. Once you get your card, you're protected from arrest.

You're frantically defending the status quo, and the actions of the prosecution... why?

purklize said:

IIRC it was a DEAD MALE that finished him in court (pushed him over his weight limit). The affirmative defense should have covered him. It says so explicitly in our law. Once you're certified, you're protected not from arrest, but charges. Once you get your card, you're protected from arrest.

You're frantically defending the status quo, and the actions of the prosecution... why?

Click to expand...

I'm not trying to side with the prosecution, but it seems the guy did admit that he had no card. He received a doctors certification 10 days earlier. According to the LAW, he wasn't in compliance.

I don't like the fact that people are being locked up over a harmless plant, but the fact of the matter is that this guy was careless, and stupid. Follow the fucking law!! It's not that difficult. The more idiots there are running around out there thumbing their nose at the law (that we the people voted on), the easier it will be for people like Bill Schutte to paint a bad picture of the medical marijuana movement as a whole, and get this law overturned. That will negatively impact sick people that need these meds .... and that would be a damn shame!

We shouldn't be defending idiots just because they like to smoke pot. We should be distancing ourselves from the people that choose to be ignorant of the law.

I do not side with the prosecution at all. Someone that doesn't follow the law, isn't fucking stupid. Don't we all agree that the fact it is illegal is stupid?! I can't believe this argument. I am here to tell you that the law is wrong!! We shouldn't need cards, I don't need a fucking doctor to tell me anything. The law is wrong and anyone that defends a law that is wrong is wrong themselves. If my neighbor wants to burn a joint after work, fine. Anyone that has a problem with my neighbor smoking a joint in his house after work should be locked up, the nosey people should be harassed and taken off the streets. Please please please don't think that I would ever look down on one of you for having 13 plants instead of twelve. When are lawmakers are full of shit, we need to let them know they are full of shit. This is one of those times. Fuck a prosecutor that wants to harass sick people for anything pety!

gladstoned said:

I do not side with the prosecution at all. Someone that doesn't follow the law, isn't fucking stupid. Don't we all agree that the fact it is illegal is stupid?! I can't believe this argument. I am here to tell you that the law is wrong!! We shouldn't need cards, I don't need a fucking doctor to tell me anything. The law is wrong and anyone that defends a law that is wrong is wrong themselves. If my neighbor wants to burn a joint after work, fine. Anyone that has a problem with my neighbor smoking a joint in his house after work should be locked up, the nosey people should be harassed and taken off the streets. Please please please don't think that I would ever look down on one of you for having 13 plants instead of twelve. When are lawmakers are full of shit, we need to let them know they are full of shit. This is one of those times. Fuck a prosecutor that wants to harass sick people for anything pety!

Click to expand...

Here's the thing ... it doesn't matter what YOU think. The law was passed by the people of the state. If you ever want to see marijuana legalized, we need to keep public opinion on our side. Do you honestly feel that disregarding the current law, having a bunch of people arrested, and having it splashed all over the front pages of every newspaper in michigan is going to sway people our way?

You have to remember a few things gladstoned. Marijuana is NOT legal on a federal level, and it is NOT legal for recreational use in our state, no matter how dumb you think that is. This fight will be won at the ballot box, and if the medical marijuana community comes off as a bunch of stupid stoners it will never see the light of day. The general public will side with us when they see we are responsible, every day people using the plant within the parameters of the law.

I follow the law, because I feel it is now reasonable. I agree with the officer that was at my house, he said that he saw IMMEDIATELY that I was following the law, I have my shit immaculate. That is what is most important here that I want to stress. He never started to look through my trash on pull clones up to check for roots and stupid shit like that. That is what pisses me off. If a caregiver is one plant over? Really? Bullshit.
I feel the same way about marijuana as anything else. I feel I am a reasonable guy. If I get a speeding ticket for 56 in a 55 I am going to be PISSED. Was I speeding sure. So what. That's bullshit. And I don't want to hear someone say, If you keep going 56, they are going to get mad and we will and get in trouble and the speed limit will get put down to 45 until we all learn our lesson. That is what I am trying to say. If someone is going 56 in a 55 and he was passed by 4 cars already, they should be waiting to see one of those other cars being pulled over. But I also feel that the guy going 95 in his new car needs to pay his traffic ticket and shut the fuck up while he does pay, and he needs to worry about his insurance. I medicated to try to explain myself better. Did it work? If not Ill try again. lol

gladstoned said:

I follow the law, because I feel it is now reasonable. I agree with the officer that was at my house, he said that he saw IMMEDIATELY that I was following the law, I have my shit immaculate. That is what is most important here that I want to stress. He never started to look through my trash on pull clones up to check for roots and stupid shit like that. That is what pisses me off. If a caregiver is one plant over? Really? Bullshit.
I feel the same way about marijuana as anything else. I feel I am a reasonable guy. If I get a speeding ticket for 56 in a 55 I am going to be PISSED. Was I speeding sure. So what. That's bullshit. And I don't want to hear someone say, If you keep going 56, they are going to get mad and we will and get in trouble and the speed limit will get put down to 45 until we all learn our lesson. That is what I am trying to say. If someone is going 56 in a 55 and he was passed by 4 cars already, they should be waiting to see one of those other cars being pulled over. But I also feel that the guy going 95 in his new car needs to pay his traffic ticket and shut the fuck up while he does pay, and he needs to worry about his insurance. I medicated to try to explain myself better. Did it work? If not Ill try again. lol

Click to expand...

I get your drift, glad. And I really do agree with you. I think it's stupid as well that this wonderful, harmless plant is even illegal to begin with. But what you and I think really doesn't matter. We have to play THEIR game by THEIR rules in order to get to where we want to go. It sucks, but it's the reality of the situation.

I would be pissed if I got a speeding ticket for doing 56 in a 55 too .... but we don't have an Attorney General that has an axe to grind with people doing one mph over the limit. Unfortunately he has an axe to grind with people growing 1 plant over the limit.

st0wandgrow said:

I get your drift, glad. And I really do agree with you. I think it's stupid as well that this wonderful, harmless plant is even illegal to begin with. But what you and I think really doesn't matter. We have to play THEIR game by THEIR rules in order to get to where we want to go. It sucks, but it's the reality of the situation.

I would be pissed if I got a speeding ticket for doing 56 in a 55 too .... but we don't have an Attorney General that has an axe to grind with people doing one mph over the limit. Unfortunately he has an axe to grind with people growing 1 plant over the limit.

Click to expand...

We played "THEIR" game and got it on the ballot and won with a 63% majority vote. Yet they haven't even implemented the law the way it is worded and are fighting tooth and nail to amend the law to "THEIR" liking, without even letting what we voted on work. Fuck their game.

If you are going 56 in a 55 you ARE playing their game and they know it, that why you can generally go up to 10 over. Right or wrong? Cops even say it. If you are going 5 over you are usually figuring that you are taking a chance, but you should be ok. If your ass is drinking you better be going 54. right? Why I keep throwing in my thoughts is because I just dealt with this and the cop feels the same way. He saw first thing that I was 'playing the game' and so then he relaxed and did his job. What me and you think does matter. You and I are reasonable people that vote. That is what I am saying.

stumpjumper said:

We played "THEIR" game and got it on the ballot and won with a 63% majority vote. Yet they haven't even implemented the law the way it is worded and are fighting tooth and nail to amend the law to "THEIR" liking, without even letting what we voted on work. Fuck their game.

Click to expand...

Hell ya! +rep!

stumpjumper said:

We played "THEIR" game and got it on the ballot and won with a 63% majority vote. Yet they haven't even implemented the law the way it is worded and are fighting tooth and nail to amend the law to "THEIR" liking, without even letting what we voted on work. Fuck their game.

Click to expand...

The problem is that the law was written so vaguely. It was never intended to be complete, it had to be implemented by a certain date. The intention to "flush it out" was always understood.

Then a bunch of yahoo's came along and started abusing every loophole in the law...12 plants per patient was intended so that a patient growing for himself with a small set up could have a continuous supply, it assumed small plants, less than perfect growing conditions and some failure rate. It didn't assume a bunch of guys getting 5 patients, setting up a pro grow room, running 60 plants, giving their patients 1 oz per month and selling their pounds of 'overages" on the open market.

The bottom line is that the behavior of the people abusing the law has caused the crack down.

People were abusing the law before it was a law. There is no reason they couldn't just crack down on the abusers without trying to amend it and make it illegal again. Most of their proposed amendments have nothing to do with closing loopholes.

When was the period of them not fucking with patients? I must have missed that. There are meth labs in every town. Why is there a problem with a 60-plant professional garden if you give your patients 2 or 3 ounces? Where is the issue, the success rate? the one ounce a month? Im not arguing just don't know

stumpjumper said:

We played "THEIR" game and got it on the ballot and won with a 63% majority vote. Yet they haven't even implemented the law the way it is worded and are fighting tooth and nail to amend the law to "THEIR" liking, without even letting what we voted on work. Fuck their game.

Click to expand...

Explain yourself. Are you suggesting that the best way to go about this is to disregard the law? Should we be growing 150 plants each and lighting up a 3 foot joint in front of the state capitol in a showing of solidarity?

Whether you like it or not, a law was passed, and we have to follow that law. If the police bust your door down and you are within compliance, then you should have nothing to worry about. If you're allowed to have 24 plants, and you have 28, guess what, you aren't following the law, and they will drag you through the coals for it.

It's a slow process. One that will be fought in court, and won at the ballot box. I hope each and every person that goes before a judge is able to show that they were following the letter of the law, and in turn will make Bill Schutte et al look like a bunch of over zealous thugs. If person after person gets dragged in to court sitting on pounds of weed, way over on plant count, and generally showing a lack of common sense, then it will be Bill Schutte that is vindicated, and we will all look like the bunch of moronic stoners that he is trying to make us out to be. I'm fucking amazed that people can't grasp this very simple concept. It doesn't give me much hope that this issue will end up in our favor.

YOU assume that is the intent of the law. Why would you assume that plants would be small and have a high failure rate? The state of Michigan has the MSU Agriculture extensions. They are there to help you grow plants.

There are people who abuse the system, yes, but that is not the reason to also abuse the citizenry of the State of Michigan. I think the old guard needs to die and drop off.

bob harris said:

The problem is that the law was written so vaguely. It was never intended to be complete, it had to be implemented by a certain date. The intention to "flush it out" was always understood.

Then a bunch of yahoo's came along and started abusing every loophole in the law...12 plants per patient was intended so that a patient growing for himself with a small set up could have a continuous supply, it assumed small plants, less than perfect growing conditions and some failure rate. It didn't assume a bunch of guys getting 5 patients, setting up a pro grow room, running 60 plants, giving their patients 1 oz per month and selling their pounds of 'overages" on the open market.

The bottom line is that the behavior of the people abusing the law has caused the crack down.

Click to expand...

Stowandgrow this is the difference for me. You said if they kick your door in and you are legal you have nothing to worry about. That is the problem, if they kick my door in and I am legal - I WANT THEIR ASS!!! And so then they are digging shit up out of the trash on taping clippings together and all kinds of shit. You should be able to tell a judge, that is a male - it's useless etc. That is entirely my problem.

Let me break this down for you stump:

I think we would all agree that the ultimate goal here is to have marijuana completely legalized on a federal level, correct? If that's the case, then hear me out.

This isn't much different than alcohol prohibition back in the day. The federal government wasn't going to budge. It took a concerted effort by each state, one by one, to legalize alcohol until the feds were left with no choice but to lift the prohibition.

Marijuana prohibition is very similar. There are powerful influences in Washington (lobbyists) beyond our control. It will take each state hashing it out, one by one, eventually forcing the feds to back off.

In our state, we have a pretty evenly divided populous. Roughly a third of our population is pro-marijuana like the members of this forum. Another third is made up of conservative, reefer madness types that think marijuana is the devil. The last third are moderate folks that can be swayed in either direction. If these moderate folks open up the paper every day and read a new story about some cat sitting on pounds of weed, or growing a warehouse full of plants, then you best believe that the consensus will swing in the direction of the anti-marijuana crowd and we'll all be screwed.

These are the facts. Public opinion matters, and it is in our best interests to follow the law. A lot of people are resistant to change, but if we show ourselves to be reasonable, law abiding citizens people will begin to see that the plant is harmless, and has many positive things to offer that could benefit society as a whole.

I agree with your thought process, but I strongly disagree with your numbers. Legalization would pass today no problem if everyone voted. They lost this war just like they lost the war on alcohol. They don't have a choice. They lost. They to move on, cuz we are not. If they change the speed limit on I-75 to 65 MPH they are gonna be writing out a lot of fucking tickets. And when 51% of the people are pissed off about the tickets, it should be changed immediately.

I'm not saying disregard the law at all... I'm just saying their game is bullshit.. I strongly suggest everyone stay well within the limits of the law. I'm sorry if I sounded otherwise, it just pisses me off, hence me saying "fuck their game"..