Just bought my Model 48SAMS from Timber can't wait to join the big boys.

Discussion in 'LED and other Lighting' started by TheCatWhisperer, Jul 11, 2018.

  1.  
    TheCatWhisperer

    TheCatWhisperer Member

    Moving up from regular LED light bulbs(will still use them to supplement if needed on the corners). Im from a less than legal state so I dont plan to show picks of plants but i just wanted to let you guys know that you converted a lurker from light bulbs to QB's. :)
     
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  2.  
    Airwalker16

    Airwalker16 Well-Known Member

    That's a fucking cool light.
     
  3.  
    Professor_Xavier

    Professor_Xavier Member

    The engineering on these fixtures is nicer than the HLG kits. Aboot time someone started competing in this segment.
     
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  4.  
    Humple

    Humple Well-Known Member

    In what way do you mean? Are you referring to the frame? It's my understanding that Timber is using HLG boards in these fixtures...

    As for this particular unit - it definitely looks nice, but I wonder why they didn't spread the boards out a little more. I'm not seeing anything about this unit that would make it a better option than the HLG600.
     
  5.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member


    Blah blah! Are you fixed on black?
    There is a 4040 profile where all 4 slates are mounted to. For my taste thats much too close together and will cause a hotspot.
    Two 24SAMS fixtures with at least 1' in between would be much better. That's the same problem I see with the HLG550/600.
    You need at least something like a frame to mounts the boards further apart from the next. @welight from Cutter also used such profiles(smaller 2020) but to make a frame for 4 boards, 1' spacings and he got much better uniformity, less center hotspot and corner brightness of ~80% of the center readings!
    Less hotspot means also you can hang the hole fixture closer to your plants without getting bleaching, less light loss on the walls is another benefit.
    Untill I see something similar I would rather build my own frame and take only the boards and slate heatsinks and maybe the drivers. These profiles are pretty cheap and it's realy easy to work with. You can get them also in black if you want, btw.
     
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  6.  
    Humple

    Humple Well-Known Member

    Right on. I love my QBs, and I think HLG is awesome, but I really think they need to update their fixtures to spread those boards out more. Same goes for Timber.
     
  7.  
    Professor_Xavier

    Professor_Xavier Member

    Pretty much this. HLG has great PCB, diodes and customer service. Their controls and fixture options are their areas for improvement and iirc they are fixing the former. If I were famous like Ledgardener and had Robin's ear at HLG, I'd be pointing that out as Timber is taking advantage of it. All the power to them for responding to a market need faster.
     
  8.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member


    Yea, I see the problem with the shipment of pre-assembled lamps, because with the size of a 36x 36" frame they would probably have to assign a forwarding company. However, you could disassemble a preassembled frame from 2020 profiles into 4 parts with only loosening 4 screws and the inner profiles are smaller anyway.

    I am pretty sure that such a frame would sell well and he would significantly improve the lamps uniformity.
     
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  9.  
    Or_Gro

    Or_Gro Well-Known Member

    48Sams Review:
    Bought two 3000K 48Sams, for my 4’x4’ tent; mapped them individually, centered on a 2x4 grid; and as a pair, centered on each half of a 4x4 grid; using an Apogee MQ-500 with sensor centered on 6” squares.

    Mapping was done at 6” height intervals between 12” and 48”, at three dimmer settings: lowest, highest, and medium (medium set by taking middle PPFD reading between lowest & highest dimmer settings at center of each fixture at 12” height).

    The 2x4 grid was placed with its length parallel to the tent door, approximately midway between door and back wall of tent. The 4x4 grid filled the entire tent, with fixtures parallel longwise to tent side walls.

    In both 2x4 and 4x4 mapping configurations the door of the tent was completely open (4’ wide), for ease of mapping. This resulted in little or no reflection of photons on that side of the grid, resulting in a minor impact on PPFD moving from the center of the grid to the door. In other words, values at the bottom of each mapping table are slightly lower than they would be with the tent door closed.

    Mapping readings were recorded in standard PPFD units (umol/meter sq/second), but are presented as PPFD/1000, rounded to one decimal place for ease of presentation, and to focus attention on uniformity across the respective grids.

    Individually, both fixtures gave the same readings at all height and dimmer settings, showing the amazing uniformity of these Samsung diodes/boards. I have attached the 2x4 mapping for one of the fixtures; and for the 4x4 mapping.

    For reference, PPFD readings in the 300-600 range (comparable to 0.3-0.6 in these tables) are considered good for veg; 600-1000 are considered good for flowering without CO2; 1000-1500 are considered good for flowering with CO2.

    2’x4’ Mapping:
    C8FBEC3A-B00E-4ECE-9F7C-7FC852C4DF77.jpeg
    F98E0F24-393E-4973-9078-98EA2FA83866.jpeg
    23A42268-8C89-48C5-9FD8-5E381C2299C6.jpeg

    4’x4’ Mapping:
    8DD7A78B-0E0F-49CB-934B-547A10105545.jpeg
    4B2F6D80-1923-4700-BDF6-11D4EA380DD0.jpeg
    FBA0B752-E848-4D92-8274-155DD1735781.jpeg
    FD4067DC-327E-48E9-9A58-A5CDAE1C7615.jpeg

    My Opinion:
    The Timber 48sams fixture has the same Samsung LM301B boards and boardcount, as HLG’s current top-of-the-line fixture (HLG 550 V2); with a somewhat different layout, different drivers & heat sinks, standalone dimmer, and a sweet aluminum frame. Add to this package Timber’s current pricing, and this fixture is a hands down superior offering!

    Overall, I love these streamlined, lightweight fixtures. They have outstandingly uniform coverage - especially for a 4x4. You can lay down uniform 1000+ PPFD using numerous height and dimmer combos.

    I particularly like the dimmer device on the 48sams, which makes it easy to adjust intensity when fixture is in a high location or in limited space.

    I have no electrical expertise, so I don’t know the tradeoffs involved; but in this configuration, I would have preferred a single plug fixture. Given Timber’s custom buikd approach, you can do what i didn’t, ask Dan to work up a single driver design so you can have a single plug per fixture.

    I look forward to seeing what quantum boards can do for me, someone used to growing 1/2 lb (dry) plants under Kind leds.
     
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  10.  
    smokeybeard

    smokeybeard Well-Known Member

    Does anyone know if you can buy the frame work? I have all the boards, heat sinks, drivers but want the frame work to mount it all on.
     
  11.  
    Or_Gro

    Or_Gro Well-Known Member

    Contact Dan at timber
     
  12.  
    Dave455

    Dave455 Well-Known Member

    easy to make !!
     
    Randomblame and diyled like this.
  13.  
    Aolelon

    Aolelon Well-Known Member

    Are you saying the fixture has 2 plugs? You can easily remedy this with a T connector, if you want to do a little modification to it.
     
  14.  
    Randomblame

    Randomblame Well-Known Member


    A really good example that one need at least 18" distance to the canopy to get good uniformity and avoid hotspots with Q-boards. And you have done the testing with 2 fixtures but normally one Sams48 is recommended for a 4x 4' area (and it's enough actually). So maybe 18-24" are even better if you do not use another frame to spread out the boards. In my opinion the fixtures are too small for such a big area and I would sell frame and boards separately. This way people can get much better uniformity and such a frame could be pre-made and only dissambled for shipping. Takes maybe 5 extra minutes to re-assemble but you get a much better light with almost no center hotspot.
    I would at least include such frames in the assortment and use the same 2020 profiles that are used on the Sams48 fixture as they are very flexible and one could offer frames for almost any surface from 2x 4' to 5x 5' or more.
    Would not only be practical for customers but another source of income ..
     
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  15.  
    Professor_Xavier

    Professor_Xavier Member

    Yup. I love what Dan is doing with these boards for adding value.... except the frame layout. Randomblame yet again nails it.
    The frame build quality and dimming are what sets this line apart from HLG : a more adaptable system or better options for frameworks would make this a better fit for more people.
     
  16.  
    Or_Gro

    Or_Gro Well-Known Member

    Lots of good ideas here.

    Timber recommends a single 48sams for 12 sq ft; HLG’s 550 is the one claiming big flowering coverage.

    But, i really can’t see one 4-board fixture ever laying down a uniform 1000 PPFD across a 4x4, regardless of how you spread the boards. Sure, not everyone wants/needs this inntensity, but those who do won’t get it with 4 boards.

    The most impprtant thing i learned was that regardless of the type/strength of light you use, you really need to have a PAR meter to optimize it. A PAR meter is to light what a ec/ppm/tds meter is to nutes or a pH meter is to acidity/basicity.

    PAR meters are expensive, but worth every penny.

    C8EB7B31-73FB-4F3D-B993-644864BF86CB.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
  17.  
    Or_Gro

    Or_Gro Well-Known Member

    In addition to the 2 benefits you mentioned, AND to address the frame/layout, everyone should be aware that although Timber offers particular configurations, they consider every build to be custom.

    What this means, is that Dan will work with you to have your particilar board count built the way you want it. If it has more materials, then of course it may cost more, but changing the board layout is really a matter of some extra wire, aluminum bar stock, and a few minutes of labor.

    Finally, if you are in the market for a pre-built 4-board config, you really need to compare pricing between Timber’s 48sams and HLG’s 550 V2.
     
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  18.  
    Or_Gro

    Or_Gro Well-Known Member

    Just wanted to elaborate on your height gap comment. My opinion, tho i haven’t mapped a single board alone, is that it may not be possible to get a uniform par spread at 12” with these diode configurations.

    Hopefully someone will do par mapping with a single board. That would give everyone the info on how close you can go and get a uniform spread.

    On the other hand, the two fixture 4x4 mapping shows you that there would be uniform 1000ppfd opportunities at between medium and max settings at a big range of heights.

    The more dimming you can do and still achieve your desired intensity, the less electricity and heat (although w qbs heat, with just passive heatsink, is nothing compared to almost any other high powered light).
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2018
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  19.  
    Or_Gro

    Or_Gro Well-Known Member

    or,

    347E0935-D5B6-4C1F-A3C2-74C868E323C2.jpeg
     
  20.  
    Aolelon

    Aolelon Well-Known Member

    While that will work, you still have two wires running from the fixture. What I had in mind was just using this at the point of the 2 drivers. th.jpg
     

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