"Jump starting" your microbe tea with fungus. (Teaming with microbes book)

J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
So I just read Teaming With Microbes on Amazon. Great read and wish I had read it sooner. I'm actually growing with synthetic fertilizer in coco hempy buckets, but I'm brewing microbe tea for foliar applications. I'm even planning to introduce microbe tea into my fertilizer mix. I figure the worst that can happen is the synthetic fertilizer kills the microbes and the result = no benefit. The best that can happen is perhaps the microbes will thrive in the coco and help the plant thrive. Either way, it should be a good time :)

Per the instructions in Teaming With Microbes, I am jump starting my ACT by inoculating my earth worm castings with fungus by mixing 4 cups of EWC with 1 C of rolled oats. Moisten and place in a warm dark place for 3-4 days at which point a blanket of mycorrhizal fungi will have covered the entire mass of EWC. You then use the inoculated EWC to brew your microbe tea. Today is day #2 and I have a little fuzz on some of the EWC. It's kinda cool man. One thing the book didn't explain is if you need to cover the container. I have the EWC and oats mix in a small plastic container sitting inside of a 55 gallon plastic trash can that's half full with semi moist coco. Do I leave the lid off or on? I read that fungus requires air to grow, so sealed doesn't sound good. I had the lid off for yesterday and today, but it seems like there has been a lot of moisture loss and if the EWC dries out, so does the fungus. What's the happy median here? Maybe like a humidity dome type thing with the vents open half way? Not quite sealed, but not quite open? Am I retarded for making this so complicated? Be truthful :)

Any advice is much appreciated. 2 days to brew time and I will absolutely post pictures of my fungus blanketed EWC :)
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
So I just read Teaming With Microbes on Amazon. Great read and wish I had read it sooner. I'm actually growing with synthetic fertilizer in coco hempy buckets, but I'm brewing microbe tea for foliar applications. I'm even planning to introduce microbe tea into my fertilizer mix. I figure the worst that can happen is the synthetic fertilizer kills the microbes and the result = no benefit. The best that can happen is perhaps the microbes will thrive in the coco and help the plant thrive. Either way, it should be a good time :)

Per the instructions in Teaming With Microbes, I am jump starting my ACT by inoculating my earth worm castings with fungus by mixing 4 cups of EWC with 1 C of rolled oats. Moisten and place in a warm dark place for 3-4 days at which point a blanket of mycorrhizal fungi will have covered the entire mass of EWC. You then use the inoculated EWC to brew your microbe tea. Today is day #2 and I have a little fuzz on some of the EWC. It's kinda cool man. One thing the book didn't explain is if you need to cover the container. I have the EWC and oats mix in a small plastic container sitting inside of a 55 gallon plastic trash can that's half full with semi moist coco. Do I leave the lid off or on? I read that fungus requires air to grow, so sealed doesn't sound good. I had the lid off for yesterday and today, but it seems like there has been a lot of moisture loss and if the EWC dries out, so does the fungus. What's the happy median here? Maybe like a humidity dome type thing with the vents open half way? Not quite sealed, but not quite open? Am I retarded for making this so complicated? Be truthful :)

Any advice is much appreciated. 2 days to brew time and I will absolutely post pictures of my fungus blanketed EWC :)
Click to expand...
yes the fungi need oxygen, but during colonization, they can maintain growth under high CO2 conditions (though you still need O2 gas exchange). so loosely covering the EWC mixture will help retain moisture, yet still allow the diffusion of O2 into the container.

fwiw, i work at a mushroom farm, and this knowledge is from my experience from mushroom cultivation. high CO2 to O2 concentrations during colonization, followed by low (near atmospheric) levels of CO2 and increase O2 for fruit/pin formation and fruit maturity (and of course extremely high humidity).
 
bearded.beaver

bearded.beaver

Well-Known Member
I've made ewc tea like that. I used a bokashi bran, already infused. I noticed about 2 to 3 days after, my plants really seemed happy. The veggie garden really seemed to thrive as well.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
yes the fungi need oxygen, but during colonization, they can maintain growth under high CO2 conditions (though you still need O2 gas exchange). so loosely covering the EWC mixture will help retain moisture, yet still allow the diffusion of O2 into the container.

fwiw, i work at a mushroom farm, and this knowledge is from my experience from mushroom cultivation. high CO2 to O2 concentrations during colonization, followed by low (near atmospheric) levels of CO2 and increase O2 for fruit/pin formation and fruit maturity (and of course extremely high humidity).
Click to expand...
Great info! I made a small humidity dome inside of the trash can and cracked the lid. It can breathe but is insulated from drying out. I'm going to devise something easy, compact, and portable with a 5 gallon bucket. I'll tinker around with the idea box and report back. I really dig this microbe tea thing and want to master the art.
 
bearded.beaver

bearded.beaver

Well-Known Member
When I make my teas I use a 5 gallon bucket and the lid I have is like a paint pail with a screw on cap. I cut a piece of t-shirt and covered the hole with it and an elastic to hold it in place. I usually sprinkle in some kelp meal too.
Kelp meal is like Frank's Red Hot
"I put that sh*t on everything"
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
bearded.beaver said:
When I make my teas I use a 5 gallon bucket and the lid I have is like a paint pail with a screw on cap. I cut a piece of t-shirt and covered the hole with it and an elastic to hold it in place. I usually sprinkle in some kelp meal too.
Kelp meal is like Frank's Red Hot
"I put that sh*t on everything"
Click to expand...
i dont know the authenticity of it, but i've heard kelp meal inhibits bacterial growth (probably due to excess ion content when dissolved in water which throws off osmolarity of the cell). I've read fungi love it in a brew though (via Dr. Ingham)!
 
bearded.beaver

bearded.beaver

Well-Known Member
Yeah its more for a fungal dominated tea. I heard it in a speech the Dr. Elaine Ingham gave at a farmers conference about the soil food Web. I can't remember which one, I do remember the video was horible and the audio was really low.
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I think I'm on day 3 of my fungus growth on the EWC. Check 'er out...

fungus.jpg
And the up close...with my fat thumb in the way of the camera
fungus1.jpg

I'm gonna let it go another 3 days until it's a solid blanket. Then I will brew with 2 tablespoons of mollashish which is a molasses product made by zen products that's easier to pour and measure than the thick molasses. It also has a little calcium and magnesium. I may opt for straight unsulfured organic molasses for future brews. Typically a product that has undergone less processing is of better quality than a highly processed product. I will brew for 24 hours, filter, and spray all the girls down. The remainder of the 5 gallon brew will be used in my usual fertilizer feeding for all of the plants. I'll post before and after pics and of course pics of the brew.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
I think I'm on day 3 of my fungus growth on the EWC. Check 'er out...

View attachment 4266324
And the up close...with my fat thumb in the way of the camera
View attachment 4266325

I'm gonna let it go another 3 days until it's a solid blanket. Then I will brew with 2 tablespoons of mollashish which is a molasses product made by zen products that's easier to pour and measure than the thick molasses. It also has a little calcium and magnesium. I may opt for straight unsulfured organic molasses for future brews. Typically a product that has undergone less processing is of better quality than a highly processed product. I will brew for 24 hours, filter, and spray all the girls down. The remainder of the 5 gallon brew will be used in my usual fertilizer feeding for all of the plants. I'll post before and after pics and of course pics of the brew.
Click to expand...
molasses is not good for fungal teas. you'd be much better off using fish hydrolysate or humic/fulvic acids. Elaine Ingham has studied this intensively and these are her findings. she also recommends some kelp meal in the tea as well.

that bin is looking great though! You've inspired me to give this a shot, thank you for sharing!
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
molasses is not good for fungal teas. you'd be much better off using fish hydrolysate or humic/fulvic acids. Elaine Ingham has studied this intensively and these are her findings. she also recommends some kelp meal in the tea as well.

that bin is looking great though! You've inspired me to give this a shot, thank you for sharing!
Click to expand...
You have my attention. My primary goal is to use this as a foliar application and the remainder will be used to water in my synthetic fertilizer. Will fish hydrolysate burn my foliage? Would one or the other be a safer choice to make sure there's no burned leave? I'm glad you mentioned that. I can get fish hydrolysate from home depot. Might have to visit the dreaded grow shop for the humic / fulvic acid. Down to earth makes humic acid granules for fairly cheap. They also have kelp meal. I might just grab the kelp meal, humic acid, and fish hydrolysate to build up the arsenal. They're all great tea amendments.

Just brain storming here...I think I'm going to add the humic acid and the kelp. The high N on the fish hydrolysate makes me feel like foliage burn may be possible. Thoughts? I have very limited experience with foliar applications and have burned my plants with neem oil in the past. To this day I cringe anytime I hear someone mention that gnarly bullshit. Ruined an entire crop just before flower. Never had any such problem with azamax.

By the way, I'm also getting a 40LB bag of alfalfa pellets from tractor supply. Great addition to any microbe tea. Cheap too. $12.99
 
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ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
You have my attention. My primary goal is to use this as a foliar application and the remainder will be used to water in my synthetic fertilizer. Will fish hydrolysate burn my foliage? Would one or the other be a safer choice to make sure there's no burned leave? I'm glad you mentioned that. I can get fish hydrolysate from home depot. Might have to visit the dreaded grow shop for the humic / fulvic acid. Down to earth makes humic acid granules for fairly cheap. They also have kelp meal. I might just grab the kelp meal, humic acid, and fish hydrolysate to build up the arsenal. They're all great tea amendments.

Just brain storming here...I think I'm going to add the humic acid and the kelp. The high N on the fish hydrolysate makes me feel like foliage burn may be possible. Thoughts? I have very limited experience with foliar applications and have burned my plants with neem oil in the past. To this day I cringe anytime I hear someone mention that gnarly bullshit. Ruined an entire crop just before flower. Never had any such problem with azamax.

By the way, I'm also getting a 40LB bag of alfalfa pellets from tractor supply. Great addition to any microbe tea. Cheap too. $12.99
Click to expand...
well you're not going to like what I have to say but I'm going to say it anyway... what is the purpose of you brewing a fungal dom tea (of saprophytes nonetheless) to apply as a foliar? I guess I wasn't paying attention and missed that you run synthetic nutrients.

fulvic acids are what would really benefit your grow, both foliar and in your res. they are great chelators and the molecules are small enough for a plant to uptake them.

as far as adding a microbe tea to your res... i don't really get the point because feeding synthetically, the plant is discouraged from forming symbiotic relationships with organisms because you are already delivering the nutrients in an uptakeable form. the plant wont bother putting out the energy to feed them when it doesn't need too. this is why mammoth microbes need to be applied so frequently, they simply don't survive.

not sure if the fish hydro would burn leaves or not (i'm guessing not).

don't let me discourage you from experimenting, and if you're not, you should be doing a side by side with this to quantify if it even makes a difference for you. use the scientific method, test one variable at a time :)
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
I just did some reading and fish hydrolysate is apparently great stuff for foliar applications. Picking up either Alaska Fish or Neptune's Harvest. Grabbing Down to Earth Humic Acid. Alfalfa pellets at Tractor Supply, and molasses from the grocery store. Should be a great brew :)
 
J

jonnynobody

Well-Known Member
ShLUbY said:
well you're not going to like what I have to say but I'm going to say it anyway... what is the purpose of you brewing a fungal dom tea (of saprophytes nonetheless) to apply as a foliar? I guess I wasn't paying attention and missed that you run synthetic nutrients.

fulvic acids are what would really benefit your grow, both foliar and in your res. they are great chelators and the molecules are small enough for a plant to uptake them.

as far as adding a microbe tea to your res... i don't really get the point because feeding synthetically, the plant is discouraged from forming symbiotic relationships with organisms because you are already delivering the nutrients in an uptakeable form. the plant wont bother putting out the energy to feed them when it doesn't need too. this is why mammoth microbes need to be applied so frequently, they simply don't survive.

not sure if the fish hydro would burn leaves or not (i'm guessing not).

don't let me discourage you from experimenting, and if you're not, you should be doing a side by side with this to quantify if it even makes a difference for you. use the scientific method, test one variable at a time :)
Click to expand...
I appreciate the advice. I truly don't know what I'm doing and am learning as I go and will take all the advice I can get. The goal is to go organic with living soil on the next grow, so I'm trying to learn how to brew these microbe teas effectively and get all my amendments in place. I'm actually trying to brew the fungal tea because I just read the book, Teaming With Microbes, and it got me super psyched to make some fungus tea with the jump start method. I really had no idea if it would be of any benefit to a plant grown with synthetic fertilizer, but I thought it would be good opportunity to tinker around and get more familiar with effectively brewing microbe teas. I don't know if the fungus will be of any benefit when applied as a foliar, but I do know I'm going to find out in 3-4 days :)

My friend has a pot farm in Oregon. Here is how he brews his compost tea:
PART 1
PART 2

2016 Harvest

2018 Harvest

He's all organic. He said his organic fertilizer costs under $1200/year for his entire farm. As you can see by his harvests, he's quite skilled at his trade. I'm actually growing 4 of his strains right now from seed.
 
ShLUbY

ShLUbY

Well-Known Member
jonnynobody said:
I just did some reading and fish hydrolysate is apparently great stuff for foliar applications. Picking up either Alaska Fish or Neptune's Harvest. Grabbing Down to Earth Humic Acid. Alfalfa pellets at Tractor Supply, and molasses from the grocery store. Should be a great brew :)
Click to expand...
jonnynobody said:
I appreciate the advice. I truly don't know what I'm doing and am learning as I go and will take all the advice I can get. The goal is to go organic with living soil on the next grow, so I'm trying to learn how to brew these microbe teas effectively and get all my amendments in place. I'm actually trying to brew the fungal tea because I just read the book, Teaming With Microbes, and it got me super psyched to make some fungus tea with the jump start method. I really had no idea if it would be of any benefit to a plant grown with synthetic fertilizer, but I thought it would be good opportunity to tinker around and get more familiar with effectively brewing microbe teas. I don't know if the fungus will be of any benefit when applied as a foliar, but I do know I'm going to find out in 3-4 days :)

My friend has a pot farm in Oregon. Here is how he brews his compost tea:
PART 1
PART 2

2016 Harvest

2018 Harvest

He's all organic. He said his organic fertilizer costs under $1200/year for his entire farm. As you can see by his harvests, he's quite skilled at his trade. I'm actually growing 4 of his strains right now from seed.
Click to expand...
that's nice to have a resource like that around. It's good to know people. I'll check out the vids when i get a chance.

glad to hear you have a vision for your grow. it's good to be inspired.

another thing you might want to note, it's hard to quantify the effectiveness of your tea without a microscope. this is why i've been just doing compost extracts rather than teas. but i don't even really do them very often at all. if the soil is good and the plant is happy, just a couple inoculations should be good. nature will sort out the rest :)
 
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