January 6th hearings on Trump's failed insurrection.

HGCC

HGCC

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
I don't think it's fair or wise to hire people based on skin color or gender. I think people should b hired for there ability weather they b Man, Women, Black ,White or purple I think people should b hired based on there qualifications. For instance the new White house spoke women. First thing she says is I am the first black gay women to hold this position. As if that has any bearing whatsoever on the qualifications for the job. That makes no sense to me.
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That's because you are looking at thing now with your frame of reference, it doesnt make sense because your life experiences arent the same as those people. Nobody can deny that historically being black gay or a woman meant you were going to be marginalized and not have many opportunities. Overcoming that is still a big deal for a lot of people. So when someone from whatever group achieves something, they like to acknowledge that as a "I did this so can you" type of thing.

I interpret it kind of the same way as "I never thought a kid from such a small town could achieve such big dreams." It's just an acknowledgement of overcoming something broadly seen as a hindrance or challenge.

Also worth noting is that you are listening to a speech, there's certain elements that you stick in there that are kind of tropes. Like starting an essay with "the dictionary defines blah blah blah."
 
Sam smart

Sam smart

Active Member
HGCC said:
That's because you are looking at thing now with your frame of reference, it doesnt make sense because your life experiences arent the same as those people. Nobody can deny that historically being black gay or a woman meant you were going to be marginalized and not have many opportunities. Overcoming that is still a big deal for a lot of people. So when someone from whatever group achieves something, they like to acknowledge that as a "I did this so can you" type of thing.

I interpret it kind of the same way as "I never thought a kid from such a small town could achieve such big dreams." It's just an acknowledgement of overcoming something broadly seen as a hindrance or challenge.

Also worth noting is that you are listening to a speech, there's certain elements that you stick in there that are kind of tropes. Like starting an essay with "the dictionary defines blah blah blah."
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I will say I appreciate you being thoughtful
HGCC said:
That's because you are looking at thing now with your frame of reference, it doesnt make sense because your life experiences arent the same as those people. Nobody can deny that historically being black gay or a woman meant you were going to be marginalized and not have many opportunities. Overcoming that is still a big deal for a lot of people. So when someone from whatever group achieves something, they like to acknowledge that as a "I did this so can you" type of thing.

I interpret it kind of the same way as "I never thought a kid from such a small town could achieve such big dreams." It's just an acknowledgement of overcoming something broadly seen as a hindrance or challenge.

Also worth noting is that you are listening to a speech, there's certain elements that you stick in there that are kind of tropes. Like starting an essay with "the dictionary defines blah blah blah."
Click to expand...
Okay I see ur point about over coming adversity. Seems to me we all have challenges and adversity to over come. I think it is almost a part of human experience. Whether it b over coming addiction, physical challenges, financial etc.. I agree no one is to say one person's challenges are not as valid as another person's. It is an objective experience of course. Still though over coming adversity dose not necessarily make one fit for a particular line of work. For instance if I were gay and overcame whatever adversity that comes with it that would qualify me say to b a counselor for other gay folks on over coming adversity which would b but it would not qualify me as a roofer or a public speaker etc.
 
HGCC

HGCC

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
I will say I appreciate you being thoughtful

Okay I see ur point about over coming adversity. Seems to me we all have challenges and adversity to over come. I think it is almost a part of human experience. Whether it b over coming addiction, physical challenges, financial etc.. I agree no one is to say one person's challenges are not as valid as another person's. It is an objective experience of course. Still though over coming adversity dose not necessarily make one fit for a particular line of work. For instance if I were gay and overcame whatever adversity that comes with it that would qualify me say to b a counselor for other gay folks on over coming adversity which would b but it would not qualify me as a roofer or a public speaker etc.
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Well yeah, but its part of making a speech. Saying you have a bachelor's in marketing and a masters degree in communication isn't terribly interesting or inspiring.

Everyone showing up to apply has the qualifications. That stuff is pretty boring and standard, talking about some weird industry specific award or your job history within a niche isn't interesting when making a speech.

Edit: so let's say you are a roofer, you need to talk to the general public about it. Do you list off a bunch of companies nobody has heard of and then go into various aspects of composite shingles...or do you say "we keep you dry, like your our own family. We care about you and your experience."
 
Sam smart

Sam smart

Active Member
HGCC said:
Well yeah, but its part of making a speech. Saying you have a bachelor's in marketing and a masters degree in communication isn't terribly interesting or inspiring.

Everyone showing up to apply has the qualifications. That stuff is pretty boring and standard, talking about some weird industry specific award or your job history within a niche isn't interesting when making a speech.

Edit: so let's say you are a roofer, you need to talk to the general public about it. Do you list off a bunch of companies nobody has heard of and then go into various aspects of composite shingles...or do you say "we keep you dry, like your our own family. We care about you and your experience."
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Well that is an interesting question. Thing is to me it's actions that count. Talk is good and all but it means nothing unless it's backed by action. If I say I care for u like family then turn my back those are worthless words... for me I pay very much attention to what people are saying but I pay even better attention to what they're doing.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
That's just it. I absolutely do not care about "diversity". I can not understand how people are giving positions based on gender or skin color and not merit. That is acting on emotion and totally dysfunctional. Also it is totally biased. Also just because someone dose not agree with how I think does not make them evil. However I believe these problems have gone way being solved by elections. For the most part people are thinking emotionally like bleeding hearts rather then thinking rationale. Instead of giving people positions because they are fit for the job they are giving positions because say it's a man dressed like a women and oh isn't that wonderful. Or a position is giving to someone beof the color of there skin yet totally incompetent. Incredible. I have to say us going back and forth is not going to solve a thing. Unbelievable
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You have it backwards. A diverse workforce is the natural result of good hiring practices. When it's all white, that means better candidates were excluded over lesser people. Same goes with Congress. The nearly all white male Republican delegation is a reflection of classism, exclusivity, and an old boy network that selects based upon relationships, not ability. No wonder the Republican administration was so inept.

Lack of diversity is an indication of dysfunction and bias.
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
Judge orders Trump attorney to turn over documents to Jan. 6 panel
A federal judge ordered former President Trump’s legal adviser, John Eastman, to turn over another batch of 159 documents subpoenaed by the House Jan. 6 select committee, including a single email he found to likely be part of a criminal effort to overturn the 2020 election.

The late Tuesday ruling adds to a decision earlier this year finding that Eastman, who crafted two memos outlining the Trump campaign strategy to block the Jan. 6, 2021, Electoral College certification, cannot shield some of his work from the committee by claiming attorney-client privilege because he participated in a project to undermine the election that was likely criminal.

Judge David Carter, a California-based federal judge who has been reviewing Eastman’s correspondence, found that Trump and his team may have engaged in criminal activity in early December 2020, writing that his emails “confirm that the plan was established well before January 6, 2021.”

thehill.com

Judge orders Trump attorney to turn over documents to Jan. 6 panel

A federal judge ordered former President Trump’s legal adviser, John Eastman, to turn over another batch of 159 documents subpoenaed by the House Jan. 6 select committee, including a single email h…
thehill.com thehill.com
 
Roger A. Shrubber

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
That's just it. I absolutely do not care about "diversity". I can not understand how people are giving positions based on gender or skin color and not merit.
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the government is supposed to be representative of the people of the country. everyone is supposed to have a voice, the same as the voice next to them...
there have been 115 supreme court justices since the court was established in 1789. of those 115 justices, 108 have been white men. that's 95.6%. there have been two, now three, black justices. that's 3.8%. one has been hispanic, which is about .85%. 5, now 6, have been women, which is slightly over 7%.
13.4% of the country is black, but only 3.8% of the justices have been black.
50.8% of the country is female, but only 7.6% of justices have been female.
latinos are 18.5% of the population, but there has been ONE latino justice.

Ketanji Brown Jackson is qualified.

Ketanji Brown Jackson Qualifications for Supreme Court | New York City Bar Association

The New York City Bar Association has concluded that Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is Highly Qualified to be a Justice of […]
www.nycbar.org www.nycbar.org


it is becoming apparent that all of trump's appointees to the court are liars, who perjured themselves to get their positions, though.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/04/nation/did-trumps-supreme-court-nominees-hide-their-abortion-views-heres-what-gorsuch-kavanaugh-said-about-roe-during-their-hearings/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-03/collins-suggests-gorsuch-kavanaugh-misled-senate-on-roe-v-wade

appointing a very qualified black woman to a job that is supposed to be representative of the entire nation is not affirmative action, it is not appeasement, it is long over due equity.
appointing justices with an agenda and a willingness to commit perjury to achieve that agenda is criminal.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Roger A. Shrubber said:
the government is supposed to be representative of the people of the country. everyone is supposed to have a voice, the same as the voice next to them...
there have been 115 supreme court justices since the court was established in 1789. of those 115 justices, 108 have been white men. that's 95.6%. there have been two, now three, black justices. that's 3.8%. one has been hispanic, which is about .85%. 5, now 6, have been women, which is slightly over 7%.
13.4% of the country is black, but only 3.8% of the justices have been black.
50.8% of the country is female, but only 7.6% of justices have been female.
latinos are 18.5% of the population, but there has been ONE latino justice.

Ketanji Brown Jackson is qualified.

Ketanji Brown Jackson Qualifications for Supreme Court | New York City Bar Association

The New York City Bar Association has concluded that Judge Ketanji Brown Jackson is Highly Qualified to be a Justice of […]
www.nycbar.org www.nycbar.org


it is becoming apparent that all of trump's appointees to the court are liars, who perjured themselves to get their positions, though.
https://www.npr.org/2022/05/03/1096108319/roe-v-wade-alito-conservative-justices-confirmation-hearings

https://www.bostonglobe.com/2022/05/04/nation/did-trumps-supreme-court-nominees-hide-their-abortion-views-heres-what-gorsuch-kavanaugh-said-about-roe-during-their-hearings/

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-05-03/collins-suggests-gorsuch-kavanaugh-misled-senate-on-roe-v-wade

appointing a very qualified black woman to a job that is supposed to be representative of the entire nation is not affirmative action, it is not appeasement, it is long over due equity.
appointing justices with an agenda and a willingness to commit perjury to achieve that agenda is criminal.
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Sam would say objective statistics are biased and emotional.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
I don't think it's fair or wise to hire people based on skin color or gender. I think people should b hired for there ability weather they b Man, Women, Black ,White or purple I think people should b hired based on there qualifications. For instance the new White house spoke women. First thing she says is I am the first black gay women to hold this position. As if that has any bearing whatsoever on the qualifications for the job. That makes no sense to me.
Click to expand...
Jared Kushner. What qualification did he have when Trump appointed him to be Senior Advisor to the President and lead negotiator to broker a Middle East peace deal? What did he accomplish? What legacy did he leave when he was shown the door by the electorate?

Choosing people for jobs based upon relationships, not qualifications. This leads to nepotism and incompetence in leaders.
 
CunningCanuk

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
I will say I appreciate you being thoughtful

Okay I see ur point about over coming adversity. Seems to me we all have challenges and adversity to over come. I think it is almost a part of human experience. Whether it b over coming addiction, physical challenges, financial etc.. I agree no one is to say one person's challenges are not as valid as another person's. It is an objective experience of course. Still though over coming adversity dose not necessarily make one fit for a particular line of work. For instance if I were gay and overcame whatever adversity that comes with it that would qualify me say to b a counselor for other gay folks on over coming adversity which would b but it would not qualify me as a roofer or a public speaker etc.
Click to expand...
975DC08A-394C-4316-B355-3FC0330B6BE8.jpeg
 
Sam smart

Sam smart

Active Member
Fogdog said:
Jared Kushner. What qualification did he have when Trump appointed him to be Senior Advisor to the President and lead negotiator to broker a Middle East peace deal? What did he accomplish? What legacy did he leave when he was shown the door by the electorate?

Choosing people for jobs based upon relationships, not qualifications. This leads to nepotism and incompetence in leaders.
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Yes I totally agree with you about that choosing people for jobs because of relations and not qualification leads to all kinds of stuff. Absolutely. Same for people that have no qualifications as you just said doesn't work. I'm telling you I don't like Trump I don't like any of the people working for him. I think he was an egotistical maniac. And a pathetic speaker to boot. Alls I'm saying is that I don't like Biden or Harris that's it. Everything else is seems like we pretty much feel the same way. Maybe I'm wrong
 
Grandpapy

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
Sam smart said:
Okay I see ur point about over coming adversity. Seems to me we all have challenges and adversity to over come. I think it is almost a part of human experience. Whether it b over coming addiction, physical challenges, financial etc.. I agree no one is to say one person's challenges are not as valid as another person's. It is an objective experience of course. Still though over coming adversity dose not necessarily make one fit for a particular line of work. For instance if I were gay and overcame whatever adversity that comes with it that would qualify me say to b a counselor for other gay folks on over coming adversity which would b but it would not qualify me as a roofer or a public speaker etc.
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I Dislike lazy employers too!

(Edited to remove emotion.)
 
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