Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients

Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
3.6, 2.4 and 1.1 is grams per gallon and is what JR Peter's recommends in 321. Canna growers have reduced that to an even 3 grams, 2 grams and 1 gram for a nice balance at lower EC. Me personally only used it for 2-3 weeks before I got to looking to do more with it, and I too bought MKP, then Mag Nite, potassium sulfate is pretty good and there's no sense not using that silica you got. But then when the silica's done, of course you'll want more, but shit, these salts are so cheap for so much, why would I buy more Silica Blast or Armor Si @ $19 a quart when I can spend $17 to make a gallon of concentrate. By this time you wonder why you're still using Jack's at all. Aside from the basic 321, you already took the logical next step and bought another salt and eventually, you'll have it all, just like I pretty much do. I no longer use anybody's brand, not even for micros. I got great feedback from im4satori and nxsox180 and was able to find my safe zone to experiement and I have been. The micro mix is great, but I want to try a few minor changes, but I could just as easily keep making the same and do just fine. To give props, I got the micro recipe from nxsox and all the macro ranges from im4satori. I been slowly increasing the macros, and found a thread that shows those numbers higher than GH, so I know I'm still in the lower end of the EC spectrum.

Whatever though, if you know the math to figure everything out, cool, but if you don't know it like I don't, Hydro Buddy is a nutrient calculator, so you can save custom solutions for comparing bottles nutes to salts, or mix them for use, but it's cool to have a machine to not only do the math, but keep it all together and accurate. It makes the adjustments for P, K and Si. It already has every solution I named (and use) in the library when installed.

I made something of a tutorial about using Hydro Buddy. I assume you know how to install a program, but the tutorial is how to use the app (mostly) and other related information about mixing concentrates.

https://www.420magazine.com/community/threads/making-your-own-nutrient-concentrates.455187/
 
M

McFrosticles

Well-Known Member
I just finished the thread for the 2nd time in the last few days, so been along for your journey twice haha. I'll definitely be mixing my own nutrients eventually now there isn't so much ambiguity around it, but I have a lot of reading before I start rushing into buying hordes of chemicals. I also have a huge bag of jacks I'm determined to get through before I start throwing more money at it, despite the relative cost and savings.

This is the first grow I've flipped so have a lot of other things I'm trying to dial in. And to be honest I've never seen plants look so healthy in the flesh, so if it ain't broke! Though I am worried that once the plant's needs change if I'm not prepared the plants won't reach full potential. Though there's plenty of anecdotal stuff with people doing well with 321 start to finish. Have to say this thread has been not just informational on Jacks and other nutrient salts, but gave me reason to look further into why certain elements are taken up, how the different relationships between them matter, why PH is important and being able to sort deficiencies out by addressing that rather than just throwing more nutes at a problem or flushing. Also less EC can mean more and help prevent lock out. Been a great read, lots of interesting stuff, but there's so much to take in and doing it along with the grow and life can be a bit information overload.

I was using the silica but was having PH swings up to 6.7-6.9 from 5.6 waterings with 40% run off. I thought it was maybe the silica, but when I watered again tonight with 5.5 solution, watering 18 litres in 12 litre pots, I had to settle on a ph of 6.1 in each pot, as the hand watering takes me about 2 hours. So I might add the silica back in.

I have hydro buddy, but lost interest when there wasn't presets for the different labels lol, like I say it's all very time consuming. But when I have the time I'll definitely spend some on it.
 
Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
The only custom solution you need to make in Hydro Buddy is for Jack's. You can set the app to calculate with preset weights like 321, but you could also load up the potassium silicate saved in the library so you can target your silica. I find 25 ppm to be on par with GH's dose, maybe a tad less. If you want to, you can input Armor Si into the app, and mix that in with your 321 + MKP. I don't remember the 321 being unmanageable for PH when adding in the recommended dose of Armor si. I used up most of my GH products when transitioning to get the most out of spent money. I'll admit Jack's 321 is pretty good, but if you look at all of those grows, I bet 70% of them sports noticeable deficiencies. That's what swayed me. I watched GreenGene's Garden on YouTube, and though Gene is a super knowledgeable guy that does a great job explaining 321, I couldn't help but notice the health of his herd. I mean his buds were nice and all, but he leaves gave me the heebs and when I started working out those deficiencies, I found myself greatly limited when trying to always use Jack's as my part A. If using Jack's or anybody's blend as your part A, Jack's will be your Achilles heal until you stop using it. The micro mix I use is much closer to ideal than Jack's, JR Peter's, Megacrop, all of them. I know this because none of those brands are formulated to be ideal for cannabis, but rather to be acceptable for all.

It's like you said though, there's sure no rush, and I know the feeling of being at the beginning of your growing and the need to accumulate all needed gear and to dial in your rooms and your techniques. I feel like I've been reading non stop for the past few years as one topic gradually transitions to the next. But if you ever do circle back and find that you want more elemental control over your feed, just remember that one suggestion, ditch the Jack's and not get any blend. Just make your own micro mix, and your macro targets will resolve to 100% accuracy.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
McFrosticles said:
I just realised 3.6 2.4 1.1 is more or less 321 minus .1 on the epsom, doh! Its just when I was looking at skybounds chart thing, because it's comparing ratios to the gal, the ratios look so off. I've read over the thread a couple of times now and the whole things making a little more sense.

I could use a little more advice. I just got some mkp and on day 8 of flower, a few different ratios have been thrown about and not sure which to use and when to use them. I was thinking switching after 2 weeks of stretch? Theyre still loving the 321 though, chucking out pistols.

It'll be my first successful grow, so want to get it right. Would you carry on with 321, or use the mkp?

I've also been foliar spraying with some GH micros and silica, should I stop that now? Hydro shop has ordered me some bio genesis micros but when takes forever doing anythjng. Cheers
Click to expand...
Keep it simple! That's the best advice I can give you.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Curious what you guys are running with mid to late flower to still get your Ca without so much N
McFrosticles said:
Flipped today week 10, using 3.6 2.4 1.1, everything looking lush so far.

Can I use canna boost with jacks hydro?
(edit)also can I use pk 13/14 ?
Click to expand...
PK boosters usually throw off my K to Ca ratio and cause Ca deficiencies. Not on all strains.

Going through it on a few in flower now.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Have you ran the PPMs of the nutrients you use?

To see whats going on?

Some people use hydro buddy.

I just do it manually.

You can take label percentages and figure out how much a gram per gallon does.

Basically to do the math for 1 gram per gallon

264.2007926023778 x Label Percentage

So Calcium Nitrate is 15.5% Nitrogen so 264.2 x 0.155 = 40.95 PPM of Nitrogen by adding 1 gram to a gallon.

The 264 number is 1000mg / 3.785 (to get the mg per liter from gram per gallon)

So for basic calcs just take 264 times the percentage and you know how many PPM of something you get with a gram per gallon.

The calcium nitrate also has 19% Calcium. 264.2 x 0.19 = 50.19 PPM of Calcium by adding 1 gram to a gallon.

To figure out how much of something to add to get a given PPM you divide the target PPM by the percentage

so say you want 40 PPM of Magnesium from Epsom salt. Epsom is 9.7% Magnesium and 13% Sulfur. So 40 divided by .097 = 412mg/L and multiply by 3.785 = 1560.8mg or 1.56 grams per gallon to get 40 PPM of Magnesium.

Now that 412mg/L times 0.13 = 53.56 PPM of Sulfur comes along with the 40 PPM of Magnesium.

Also I should note that P & K are a little different animals depending on how they are put in.

By convention in the U.S. the fertilizer label lists the percentage P2O5 instead of the percent P. And similarly the labels lists the percentage K2O instead of the percent K. This means we have to take into account conversion factors to calculate the percent elemental P and K.

To convert P2O5 to P multiply by 0.4364
To convert P to P2O5 multiply by 2.2915
To convert K2O to K multiply by 0.8301
To convert K to K2O multiply by 1.2047
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
If working with Liters instead of gallons

Lets say we are adding half a gram of Calcium Nitrate to 1 Liter of H2O and we want to see how much calcium and nitrogen we added in PPM, we know the calcium nitrate is 19% Calcium.

500mg x 0.19 = 95 mg/L (ppm) Calcium
500mg x 0.155 = 77.5 mg/L (ppm) Nitrogen
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
It gets more complicated when mixing by volume and not mass. (liquid nutrients) There you have to take density into account.

Since the specific gravity of a nutrient isn't commonly listed on the label we can weigh a volume of the nutrient and calculate it's specific gravity.

For example, I just put 100mL of GH Micro in a graduated cylinder and it weighed 121.2 grams. So if I do some math on the GH micro, 1mL per gallon, the label says it has 5% calcium. 264.2 x .05 = 13.2 PPM of calcium BUT when we take into account the extra mass in the mL we multiply that my 1.212 (according to my measurement) and then we get 16 PPM.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
Alternatively we can specify if the concentrations are ppm BY VOLUME or ppm BY MASS, to facilitate comparisons with data where the concentrations are reported in µl/l or mg/l.

A PPM measurement by an electronic pen is only an estimate as different substances in the water have varying aptitudes for conducting electricity.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
IMG_20190830_065027.jpg
This plant seems the worst off and is looking more like nutrient burn. I added a bit too much MKP and K2SO4.

IMG_20190830_064830.jpg
This is the baseline damage for the rest of the plants. Some tip curl upwards.
IMG_20190830_064625.jpg
This is a little worse than baseline

IMG_20190830_064940.jpg
This is a mid fan leaf that just keeps getting more yellow.

I'm at 1.1EC but 0.2EC is tap. Everything looked good a couple weeks ago before I did a res change with the 2.4mix, 1.6 calcinit, 0.8 Epsom which is standard for me but with the mkp 0.5 and potassium sulfate 0.25 additions. This was set at 1.4EC and it slowly crept up as the water level dropped. I kept topping up with plain water to reduce EC.

My guess is the strength isn't too high it's just in the wrong ratios causing burn.

The light is about 12-16" from the tops (tops vary in height slightly) but I can't raise lights any higher. These got out of hand during the stretch due to freak heatwaves we had in the NE of 110F the AC struggled to keep up. But the plant that has interveinal chlorosis isn't even the closest cola to the light and the closer one looks much better. What are the chances that's just a hot spot?

Environment is spot on now. 74F at night and 80F at canopy. Good airflow and circulation and exhaust. RH 55-60% room is very comfortable to stay in.
 
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Skybound420

Skybound420

Well-Known Member
firsttimeARE said:
Curious what you guys are running with mid to late flower to still get your Ca without so much N


PK boosters usually throw off my K to Ca ratio and cause Ca deficiencies. Not on all strains.

Going through it on a few in flower now.
Click to expand...
I went through this recently and found other cations to be the biggest antagonists to Ca, For me, it became very much pronounced when I added MAP to my nutes as the Ammonium is a cation and adding it at the level I was greatly upset the cation balance and the Ca was the first up to express deficiency, that then snowballed into an N toxicity as well as a minor Mg deficiency. That's 3 different problems at the same time. I've since adjusted my Cats so that Mg isn't too high, NH4 is no greater than 1/20th of the total N. For me, I also had to slightly bump my K to ensure the nitrate doesn't get toxic. Here's my mid bloom targets for Rockwool

------------------------Veg------------Mid Bloom
No3-.....................114...............95
NH4+....................5...................0
P...........................65..................65
K..........................170.................180
Ca........................115..................115
Mg........................45....................50

FWIW, regardless of which complex or nutrient you're using, verify the formulation as not all complexes have the same percentage of elements. For instance, Haifa Calcium Nitrate has 17NO3, 23.5 of Ca and only 0.3 of NH4+ whereas most other Calnites have less Ca and more NH4, and these kinds of details are very important.
 
firsttimeARE

firsttimeARE

Well-Known Member
Going to refrain from using additives going forward and see if I experience these same issues.

Not all strains react this way to the MKP and potassium sulfate. But I ran this strain last summer and recall the same issues
 
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