Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients

im4satori · Sep 28, 2018

chameleonchild said:
Thanks for the fast reply but those are hydro nutes

are you wanting organic soil amendments or time release fertilizers or something

fertilizer is fertilizer, these are easily water soluble so they work with hydro but that doesn't mean there not just as good in soil... im not sure I understand

im sure you can find other reagents that aren't as pure as these therefore not being 100% soluble but theres surely not a benefit to that

Skybound420 · Sep 29, 2018

chameleonchild said:
Can someone point me In the right direction to learn which products from Jack's to buy and how to use? Been growing for 7 years now and would love to stop spending so much damn money! I cut out alot of additives. I grow in soil, I have done dwc and coco but I just love growing in soil say what you want but I like it

I literally just finished mapping out my feedcharts and have ordered the final 2 products I need to complete my regimen. Well, I still might need/want to get Silica, but haven't found what I'm looking for so I'll use the rest of my GH silica till I find what I'm looking for. Also, I'd like @im4satori to verify my charts to make sure everything is everything as they say. I did my best to keep the errors to a minimum and believe I got them very close.

Also, here are links to products in my charts minus Epsom Salt because you can find that at your local local pharmacy.

Jack's A Pro 5-12-26 (non-discrete shipping)
Jack's B Calcium Nitrate (non-discrete shipping)
*Biomin Chelated Calcium Powder (discrete shipping)
*Magnesium Nitrate (discrete shipping)
MKP (discrete shipping)

I also use a Fulvic Humic Kelp Blend at a 1/4 TSP per gallon.

Skybound420 · Sep 29, 2018

Wow, after staring at my chart, it looks like I lost a lot of K from Mid to Late Bloom. Do you think I should include Potassium Sulphate to that chart? FWIW, I referenced Hoagland's feed chart for Sulfur (64ppm), but I believe I could go higher based on what I've read

chameleonchild · Sep 29, 2018

Sorry was kinda tired when reading that. I will give it a look, looks like very light feeding that looks like it can burn the girls pretty easy if not careful. Thanks for the link!

im4satori · Sep 29, 2018

Skybound420 said:
Wow, after staring at my chart, it looks like I lost a lot of K from Mid to Late Bloom. Do you think I should include Potassium Sulphate to that chart? FWIW, I referenced Hoagland's feed chart for Sulfur (64ppm), but I believe I could go higher based on what I've read

that all looks good

personally
id bump the early bloom N up to 90
id drop the mid bloom K down below 150 and bumb N up to 85
late bloom id bump the N up to 75ppm (half the K as a min)

the extra N should allow an increase in calcium nitrate and lower or eleiminate your use of the bimone calcium product

but that getting super picky and just saying what id do, those mixes look real good

for veg
all three look good but you propbably don't really need three veg mixes, you could just use the early veg mix for all of veg and just dilute the mix to lower the EC to your goal or use slightly less water to raise the EC

one more special note;
if your in coco id lower the K down to around 130 max across the board but keep everything else the same or close

one more thing
don't be surprised if your EC readings are a good bit higher than what hydrobuddy says
im guessing the EC will be around1.3 to 1.4 for your mix as it is above

ok, I lied! still yet another thing to say lol
the mid bloom has an excess of Mg, this wont hurt anything a little extra Mg wont lock out anything so its really not a big deal but I thought id point out the Mg does spike in the mid bloom mix

Skybound420 · Sep 29, 2018

@im4satori Thanks for all the feedback! I will tweak my regimen as you suggested, but here is my thought process.

Early Veg - aimed for low TDS, so used low end values
Late Veg - I used high end values
Transition - I split the difference between high veg values and low bloom values. This mix is used for first week of 12/12.
Early Bloom - Focus on high N and K for stretch.
Mid Bloom - begins at end of stretch. Aims to begin reduction of N while increasing P
Late Bloom - week 5 or 6, aim to reduce N and P while leaving K high.

Though I seem to mostly have chased away my Ca def problems, I still notice some Mg deficiency with red spotted leaf margins. The purple stems seems to have abated, so I'm lead to believe the Mg defs are less than I normally produced, still, Hydro Buddy is giving me a hard time about adding in Mg. I think the program tries to use the least amount of components/mixtures, so Epsom isn't used as much. I can hard code a weight to unused components to force it to use at least that much of any, but doing so effects the S substantially and only having Hoagland's Bloom chart to reference, are you aware of the high and low values for Sulfur? Is there such a thing as S toxicity?

Hoagland's Bloom Solution
N 210 ppm
P 31 ppm
K 235 ppm
Ca 200 ppm
S 64 ppm
Mg 48 ppm
B 0.5 ppm
Fe 1 to 5 ppm
Mn 0.5 ppm
Zn 0.05 ppm
Cu 0.02 ppm
Mo 0.01 ppm

im4satori · Sep 29, 2018

Skybound420 said:
@im4satori Thanks for all the feedback! I will tweak my regimen as you suggested, but here is my thought process.

Early Veg - aimed for low TDS, so used low end values
Late Veg - I used high end values
Transition - I split the difference between high veg values and low bloom values. This mix is used for first week of 12/12.
Early Bloom - Focus on high N and K for stretch.
Mid Bloom - begins at end of stretch. Aims to begin reduction of N while increasing P
Late Bloom - week 5 or 6, aim to reduce N and P while leaving K high.

Though I seem to mostly have chased away my Ca def problems, I still notice some Mg deficiency with red spotted leaf margins. The purple stems seems to have abated, so I'm lead to believe the Mg defs are less than I normally produced, still, Hydro Buddy is giving me a hard time about adding in Mg. I think the program tries to use the least amount of components/mixtures, so Epsom isn't used as much. I can hard code a weight to unused components to force it to use at least that much of any, but doing so effects the S substantially and only having Hoagland's Bloom chart to reference, are you aware of the high and low values for Sulfur? Is there such a thing as S toxicity?

im not aware of the top end for sulfur, its probably pretty high

but id not go over 100ppm absolute max (but not ideal) and id prefer to keep it low because its extra is what I call empty calories

Skybound420 · Sep 30, 2018

Interesting video. I didn't know I could mix Epsom into part A? What are your thoughts about using the small quantity of (Sodium Benzoate)? I linked to a read I found that says mixing concentrates (as I do) will develop a fungal colony after some time and potentially ruin the concentrate. I once created an environment for pythium and killed a bunch of plants, so I have some experience with bad fungus to know how chaotic things can get. I too have peristaltic pumps for precise mixing and remote control over the interwebs if needed, and is why I insist on making concentrates.

Skybound420 · Sep 30, 2018

Here is the corrected Bloom Regimen per your suggested edits and it seems the only element that suffered some error is Sulfur which seems to be about the most negotiable element anyways, so that worked out. I also found that Jack's Pro needs to be at least 2 grams/Gal to achieve bare minimum of Iron, but if left set to Zero, HydroBuddy WILL use less Jack's Pro and the Iron will be deficient so I had to hard code the weight before calculating.

Edit - I also tried working Potassium Sulfate into the mix, but HB wouldn't use it, so there's $5 I probably wasted.

im4satori · Sep 30, 2018

the jacks is already loaded with K so youll not need K-S

the numbers above look great

I didn't watch the video you linked but;
you cant/shouldn't mix calcium nitrate and magnesium sulfate in the same concentrate

calcium and sulfur don't go together!!! = gypsum
(theres a reason for no calcium in the jacks pro)

I personally dont have an issue with a small amount of food preservative and the sodium benzoate levels would be low enough to not be concerned with sodium levels

yes this would be the ideal thing to do

when I mix a concentrate it usually use it with in a few months, if it looks funky or has anything growing in it I add h202

Skybound420 · Sep 30, 2018

FWIW, each of the components I have listed represent a separate concentrate (gallon jug) and therefore will not meet each other until mixed into 10 gallons of RO. As soon as I empty my current concentrate, I intend to mix 378.54 grams of each component to their own respective gallon of plain RO. I would then know that 10ml equates to one gram which will make it much easier to retrieve 1/10th of a gram (1ml), or 1/100th (0.1ml).

gfpeezy · Oct 1, 2018

Skybound420 said:
I would then know that 10ml equates to one gram which will make it much easier to retrieve 1/10th of a gram (1ml), or 1/100th (0.1ml).

Wow that is genius. Could be a massive time saver. Im going to have to pick up some jugs to try this out. Will probably only use 2 litre jugs to keep the mix fresh.

Do you have any concerns with this method? Such as the solubility of such a large amount of salts relative to the water or the possible innacuracy of measuring volume with a syringe versus weighing it (compounded by the inconsistent concentrations due to lack of solubility).

As well could there be any potential bad reactions leaving it in water for an extended amount of time?

I assume RO water would be used?

Skybound420 · Oct 1, 2018

gfpeezy said:
Wow that is genius. Could be a massive time saver. Im going to have to pick up some jugs to try this out. Will probably only use 2 litre jugs to keep the mix fresh.

Do you have any concerns with this method? Such as the solubility of such a large amount of salts relative to the water or the possible innacuracy of measuring volume with a syringe versus weighing it (compounded by the inconsistent concentrations due to lack of solubility).

As well could there be any potential bad reactions leaving it in water for an extended amount of time?

I assume RO water would be used?

I'm using RO, yes. When I mixed 200 grams of Jack's, I noticed the mix turned the water very hot. So when I attempt just under 400 grams, I'll do so in a buck, and mix it in slower. I read just yesterday to mix very small quantities of Sodium Benzoate into Jack's A to prevent fungus from overtaking it, but I didn't even order that yet. As it is now, I'm having good results with the 200 gram mixes, except that my doses are now in multiples of 18.92 which is not as simple of a number as plain old 10. Use of a calculator makes either brainless, but 10 would be an easier number to use in my head. I think it's time I ordered a 25lb sack of Jack's Pro.

im4satori · Oct 1, 2018

nxsov180db said:
1 gram per 10ml isn't anything, I've mixed much more. And concerning inaccuracy of measuring volume it simply doesn't matter. If you need to measure out 100ml=10g and you actually measure out 105ml it's just not enough to matter one way or another.

^yup
@gfpeezy
@Skybound420
you could likely double it so the does is 5mls and still be ok..... but I like your plan and think itll work better for you than maxing out solubility

Skybound420 · Oct 1, 2018

Now I only manage 3 reses. In a few weeks it'll be 4. Not many to fill at all. My 200gram concentrate has lasted me about 2-3 weeks, so I assume the near 400 gram mix will last twice as long. I read solubility is temp dependent, so hotter water, you can stuff more in. In the above video, he uses a propane heater to get his water hot for mixing. I have an OCD about using things with metal, so I don't think I'd go that route for fear of oxidizing the metals and contaminating the mix.

At any rate, for me, I doubt the concentrate matters as I'll be using peristaltic pumps, and since I wrote the code that knows how many motor spins will get out 1ml, everything else is just a multiple of that. I just wanted 10ml/gram for when dosing manually.

im4satori · Oct 1, 2018

hot tap water is hot enough... no need to heat water like that!!

that's 2 things about your video (that ive not watched) I don't like

Skybound420 · Oct 1, 2018

IDK how a stoner would prefer to read than watch information? When I smoke and read shit, I usually need to read the same content several times due to my mind wandering off mid paragraph, and I seldom remember where I zoned out, so need to just start over. Videos are so much better, IMO.

im4satori · Oct 1, 2018

Skybound420 said:
IDK how a stoner would prefer to read than watch information? When I smoke and read shit, I usually need to read the same content several times due to my mind wandering off mid paragraph, and I seldom remember where I zoned out, so need to just start over. Videos are so much better, IMO.

I guess to me its more a matter of the legitimacy of the source of info more so than if its video or book

personally I guess if I had my choice I pick an audio book to read it to me lol

id rather rely on my book based on science and historical records and testing... forums and social media are full of mis-information or alternative truths as they call it these days

again ive not watched the video and theres probably some good stuff in it, but .......
mixing mag sulfate with calcium nitrate is a big NO NO if speaking in terms of concentrates

Skybound420 · Oct 2, 2018

In that particular video, he mixed the Epsom in with Part A, not the Cal Nit. As far as sourcing info, I try to source it from everywhere. Scientifically backed information is great, but it doesn't always exist in the preferred format, so some outsourcing is needed. Like for instance, the information I gleaned from you was in the form of one guy on the interwebs talking to another. I have no way of knowing if the things you shared with me are backed up scientifically as you haven't linked me to your source. So I continue researching the topic, and will continue to do so in search of information that aligns with what you shared, or info that contradicts with what you shared. So far, your info is checking out, but the proving process never ends.

Generally speaking, correct information will be in agreement, irregardless of the sources and so far your info regarding mixing dry nutes has checked out. Speaking of which, I found another recipe to use as a reference, similar to that of Hoagland's. I still primarily use the values you shared, but this new recipe helps me to paint a fuller picture.

----------------------------------------------------------
Hoagland's Bloom Solution |Steiner's formula is here: |
N 210 ppm---------------------| N 170 ppm |
P 31 ppm-----------------------| P 50 ppm |
K 235 ppm---------------------| K 320 ppm |
Ca 200 ppm--------------------| Ca 183 ppm |
Mg 48 ppm---------------------| Mg 50 ppm |
S 64 ppm-----------------------| S 148 ppm |
B 0.5 ppm----------------------| B 1 to 2 ppm |
Fe 1 to 5 ppm------------------| Fe 3 to 4 ppm |
Mn 0.5 ppm---------------------| Mn 1 to 2 ppm |
Zn 0.05 ppm--------------------| Zn 0.2 ppm |
Cu 0.02 ppm--------------------| Cu 0.1 to 0.5 ppm |
Mo 0.01 ppm--------------------| Mo 0.1 ppm |
-----------------------------------------------------------

This too;

shahomy · Oct 2, 2018

Skybound420 said:
In that particular video, he mixed the Epsom in with Part A, not the Cal Nit.

this is from jacks webpage...under tech stuff
"The order of additions is VERY important. You must add the 5-12-26 first and make sure it is completely dissolved, then add in the Epsom salts making sure it is completely dissolved, then finally the calcium nitrate.

Jacks (JR Peters) nutrients

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