It's over

hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Ok, so, that's it. Their message, if one can call it that, is nothing has changed with respect to the issue of police brutality and fascists in the police force.
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I am all for them protesting police brutality. It is a shame though that they have no way to actually evaluate what has changed just by Trump no longer being POTUS.

Fogdog said:
The spokeswoman is correct that property damage during protest is a non-violent action and has been a part of protesting long before this time.
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She may be correct but that doesn't make it right.

Should I be able to go bust up all her windows because I want to protest the way the people she associates with? I seem to remember a whole lot of white people in the past that would have thought something similar as they burnt down Black Wallstreet.

Fogdog said:
Address police brutality.
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Agreed.

It is a shame that the very real ways that things try to get addressed and the real world issues get drowned out by the lies.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/do-you-believe-president-trump-lies-republican-presidential-candidate-joe-walsh-on-fox-business.995662/post-15603505

This is why the disinformation warfare that is pushing the lies and propaganda, that these people are obviously falling for, is so important to stop so we can finally get to have real data driven conversations about the very real problems that we have a society and come together to fix the issues.

Fogdog said:
That is the big problem and the motivation behind their protests.
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I agree. That is exactly the type of division that the Russian military have been funding content manufacturing and then using that to hammer our society with.
Screen Shot 2021-01-24 at 7.36.20 AM.png

Fogdog said:
Your assertion that they are brainwashed is entirely based upon your imagination.
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Because you say so?

Fogdog said:
Police brutality is a real problem, worthy of civil protests, worthy of disobedience out of protest and has nothing to do with secret agent-provocateurs.
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I don't disagree about the problem and protesting.

But when people are saying the same troll shit (that while you seem very intent on ignoring) that it has been proven that the Russian propaganda has been pushing, and start to become part of the propaganda cycle, they become part of the narrative that the far right will use to maintain their power by distracting form the very real issues that I agree with you need to be fixed.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I am all for them protesting police brutality. It is a shame though that they have no way to actually evaluate what has changed just by Trump no longer being POTUS.


She may be correct but that doesn't make it right.

Should I be able to go bust up all her windows because I want to protest the way the people she associates with? I seem to remember a whole lot of white people in the past that would have thought something similar as they burnt down Black Wallstreet.


Agreed.

It is a shame that the very real ways that things try to get addressed and the real world issues get drowned out by the lies.
https://www.rollitup.org/t/do-you-believe-president-trump-lies-republican-presidential-candidate-joe-walsh-on-fox-business.995662/post-15603505

This is why the disinformation warfare that is pushing the lies and propaganda, that these people are obviously falling for, is so important to stop so we can finally get to have real data driven conversations about the very real problems that we have a society and come together to fix the issues.


I agree. That is exactly the type of division that the Russian military have been funding content manufacturing and then using that to hammer our society with.
View attachment 4805508


Because you say so?


I don't disagree about the problem and protesting.

But when people are saying the same troll shit (that while you seem very intent on ignoring) that it has been proven that the Russian propaganda has been pushing, and start to become part of the propaganda cycle, they become part of the narrative that the far right will use to maintain their power by distracting form the very real issues that I agree with you need to be fixed.
Click to expand...
So, when women protested Trump's misogynistic presidency in the Women's march in 2017, were they brainwashed by Russian propaganda into doing it? This is a rhetorical question. Of course they weren't. There were reasons for that protest. To say they were just there because of Putin is dismissive of their cause.

When those self-proclaimed patriotic defenders of the constitution stormed the Capitol Building, were they acting out due to Russian Propaganda or was it in response to their leader, Trump's claim that he won the election and they should fight to "stop the steal"? I don't dispute that propaganda is having a corrosive effect on our country but I assign most of the blame for what happened on Jan 6 to Trump and the people who committed the crimes.

Saying the Jan 6 insurrection was due to people being brainwashed by Putin gives Trump and his followers an excuse that I'm unwilling to accept. Saying those broken windows in Portland were due to people being brainwashed by Putin is also an excuse I'm unwilling to accept. People did break those windows and people were arrested for doing so. I think if they did the crime they should do the time. Same with the terrorists that broke into our nation's Capitol Building.

Putin did not invent authoritarian followers who believe their white skin makes them the superior race. They were here a long time before Putin's grand parents were born. His propaganda has an effect but it would have none without a receptive audience. From my perspective, Trump and right wing media are many times more active with the propaganda. That Trump had the bully pulpit from which to broadcast his lies made it all the more effective.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
So, when women protested Trump's misogynistic presidency in the Women's march in 2017, were they brainwashed by Russian propaganda into doing it?
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I think it is very possible that it was amplified yes.

Out of that 2018 election Trump got a handful of his biggest go to attacks that him and the Republicans used in 2020. And then amplified their voices to try to paint the Democratic party as 'extreme leftists'.


Fogdog said:
This is a rhetorical question. Of course they weren't.
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Oh. Maybe, you are right, but I would not be so certain if I was you. The Republicans almost won the House, Senate, and presidency in 2020, and would have if the candidate at the head of the ticket was anyone other than Biden.

Fogdog said:
There were reasons for that protest.
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Of course there was/is. That is how the Russian attack on our citizens works. They pick very real scabs over and over again in social media, amplifying the hate on 'both sides' with trolls and pinpoint accuracy of the propaganda to fire everyone up and then point them at one another.

Fogdog said:
To say they were just there because of Putin is dismissive of their cause.
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"Because of Putin" is dismissive of the attack that the Russian military has been pulling off on our society.

Much like everything being pushed the truth is somewhere in the middle. The data is out there. Im guessing if we go back and see what was being pushed in the months here leading up to the women's rights marches the postings of the known trolls might be pretty interesting.

Fogdog said:
When those self-proclaimed patriotic defenders of the constitution stormed the Capitol Building, were they acting out due to Russian Propaganda or was it in response to their leader, Trump's claim that he won the election and they should fight to "stop the steal"? I don't dispute that propaganda is having a corrosive effect on our country but I assign most of the blame for what happened on Jan 6 to Trump and the people who committed the crimes.
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I asked you earlier and you never answered. Do you not view Trump and the Russian attack as parts of the same problem?

And the fact that the same criminal's ("Stop the steal" was coined by stone back in 2016, Giuliani's use of a laptop (weiner's) to paint the 'Deep State' out to get Trump, and Trump's 'if I win', along with the foreign/domestic trolling attack online) pushing the same lies leading up to the 2016 presidential election just shows them using the same con. Just this time Trump wanted it to give him cover to try to steal the election.

I would be willing to bet the mass portion of people there were just following the zombie horde and Dear Leader telling them to follow while pulling the plug on the rest of the rallies speakers so they had nothing to do but follow the couple hundred-maybe thugs that were planning on using them as a distraction to attack the capital.

Fogdog said:
Saying the Jan 6 insurrection was due to people being brainwashed by Putin gives Trump and his followers an excuse that I'm unwilling to accept.
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That is just not logical to not accept the reality of what you know of the attack on our society.

I am not saying they should get off. Vulnerable people for all time have been sucked into doing crimes by con artists and criminals. I don't see why it is so hard to think this is any different for the vast majority of people there.

Fogdog said:
Saying those broken windows in Portland were due to people being brainwashed by Putin is also an excuse I'm unwilling to accept.
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Same answer as above.

Fogdog said:
People did break those windows and people were arrested for doing so. I think if they did the crime they should do the time. Same with the terrorists that broke into our nation's Capitol Building.
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I am in agreement. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't understand how those people radicalized to the point that they thought it was ok to do that. The threat/impacts of this attack have been ongoing, and everyone of those vulnerable people who haven't triggered yet are still out there, and all that data is only going to keep growing.

Fogdog said:
Putin did not invent authoritarian followers who believe their white skin makes them the superior race. They were here a long time before Putin's grand parents were born. His propaganda has an effect but it would have none without a receptive audience. From my perspective, Trump and right wing media are many times more active with the propaganda. That Trump had the bully pulpit from which to broadcast his lies made it all the more effective.
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I think it is naive to think of them as different attacks.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I think it is very possible that it was amplified yes.

Out of that 2018 election Trump got a handful of his biggest go to attacks that him and the Republicans used in 2020. And then amplified their voices to try to paint the Democratic party as 'extreme leftists'.



Oh. Maybe, you are right, but I would not be so certain if I was you. The Republicans almost won the House, Senate, and presidency in 2020, and would have if the candidate at the head of the ticket was anyone other than Biden.


Of course there was/is. That is how the Russian attack on our citizens works. They pick very real scabs over and over again in social media, amplifying the hate on 'both sides' with trolls and pinpoint accuracy of the propaganda to fire everyone up and then point them at one another.


"Because of Putin" is dismissive of the attack that the Russian military has been pulling off on our society.

Much like everything being pushed the truth is somewhere in the middle. The data is out there. Im guessing if we go back and see what was being pushed in the months here leading up to the women's rights marches the postings of the known trolls might be pretty interesting.


I asked you earlier and you never answered. Do you not view Trump and the Russian attack as parts of the same problem?

And the fact that the same criminal's ("Stop the steal" was coined by stone back in 2016, Giuliani's use of a laptop (weiner's) to paint the 'Deep State' out to get Trump, and Trump's 'if I win', along with the foreign/domestic trolling attack online) pushing the same lies leading up to the 2016 presidential election just shows them using the same con. Just this time Trump wanted it to give him cover to try to steal the election.

I would be willing to bet the mass portion of people there were just following the zombie horde and Dear Leader telling them to follow while pulling the plug on the rest of the rallies speakers so they had nothing to do but follow the couple hundred-maybe thugs that were planning on using them as a distraction to attack the capital.


That is just not logical to not accept the reality of what you know of the attack on our society.

I am not saying they should get off. Vulnerable people for all time have been sucked into doing crimes by con artists and criminals. I don't see why it is so hard to think this is any different for the vast majority of people there.


Same answer as above.


I am in agreement. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't understand how those people radicalized to the point that they thought it was ok to do that. The threat/impacts of this attack have been ongoing, and everyone of those vulnerable people who haven't triggered yet are still out there, and all that data is only going to keep growing.


I think it is naive to think of them as different attacks.
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Would it be unfair of me to say that you are dismissive of women who spoke out against Trump's misogyny by ascribing most of their motivation to Putin's propaganda?
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Would it be unfair of me to say that you are dismissive of women who spoke out against Trump's misogyny by ascribing most of their motivation to Putin's propaganda?
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Yes, because you are using a quantifier of 'most (of their motivation)'.

I don't have enough data to quantify how much for example each woman that attended got spammed the very worst male behavior of Trump (other famous men who violated women for decades) by paid trolls. Im guessing it was a ton but it doesn't mean that it took more than a slight nudge in a direction (date of rallies, amplification during the elections in some areas to get enough people ready to vote for the progressive candidate in areas that they knew if the person won their primaries that they wanted it would benefit the Republicans/Trump in 2020.

So saying 'most' is not something I am comfortable at all with being said about what I am saying.
 
MICHI-CAN

MICHI-CAN

Well-Known Member
Regretting opening the thread.LOL.

How much hourly for that troll position?

Glad you are all still here and healthy enough to engage.

Peace.
 
topcat

topcat

Well-Known Member
I first became an uncle at 15. It was a common sight to see parents and grandparents kiss infants and children on the head as a sign of affection. Kids get embarrassed by it, I did, but I knew what the meaning was. It meant they loved me. It's as simple as that.
Offmymeds said:
Biden doesn't like little girls sexually. That's a ridiculous assumption. He had a habit of invading people's space because he is empathic and compassionate and like me, he's a hugger. He enjoys the feeling of family and tries to make everyone feel accepted. He has apologized for that behavior and corrected it after 40+ yrs of holding babies & shaking hands. Identifying Biden as a pedophile is the equivalent of calling each person in this forum a member of the Sinaloa Cartel because we make drugs. C'mon man!
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Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I asked you earlier and you never answered. Do you not view Trump and the Russian attack as parts of the same problem?

I think it is naive to think of them as different attacks.
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Propaganda and attacks on what are now Democratic Party values, such as unions, civil rights, access to healthcare and so forth has been going on since the mid 1930's. Social media was weaponized by the same people and Putin piled on. So, yes, they are parts of the same problem. Where I differ with you is in the scope of the effect.

One person's story doesn't prove anything. With that caveat, I'm pulling up a story from 2016 posted by NPR about a guy who built a fake news outlet in his garage in the Los Angeles area. What he said was fake news stories were accepted and shared by right wingers when the stories matched their biases. He tried the same tricks on the left and it didn't work on them nearly as well.

www.npr.org

We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here's What We Learned

"The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right," says Jestin Coler, whose company, Disinfomedia, is behind some fake news sites.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

He says he got into fake news around 2013 to highlight the extremism of the white nationalist alt-right.

"The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right, publish blatantly or fictional stories and then be able to publicly denounce those stories and point out the fact that they were fiction," Coler says.

He was amazed at how quickly fake news could spread and how easily people believe it. He wrote one fake story for NationalReport.net about how customers in Colorado marijuana shops were using food stamps to buy pot.

"What that turned into was a state representative in the House in Colorado proposing actual legislation to prevent people from using their food stamps to buy marijuana based on something that had just never happened," Coler says.

anybody with a blog can get on there and find a big, huge Facebook group of kind of rabid Trump supporters just waiting to eat up this red meat that they're about to get served," Coler says. "It caused an explosion in the number of sites. I mean, my gosh, the number of just fake accounts on Facebook exploded during the Trump election."

Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out.

So, yes, fake news, propaganda, The Big Lie, do affect people and do motivate people to act out but the scope isn't uniform across our society. Some people are very susceptible, others not so much. I submit to you that the Women's March held in 2017 was a rebuke of Trump and Trumpism born out of women's rights struggle that began more than a hundred years ago. People have been writing and advocating for women's rights for that long and yeah, those essays, speeches and actions had an effect on how we think about those issues today. But I don't think Putin had much if anything to do with it. I think that because, well, dammit, Trump WAS a disgusting misogynist and nobody needed to write a fake news article to outrage women. The truth was outrageous enough.
 
hanimmal

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Propaganda and attacks on what are now Democratic Party values, such as unions, civil rights, access to healthcare and so forth has been going on since the mid 1930's. Social media was weaponized by the same people and Putin piled on. So, yes, they are parts of the same problem. Where I differ with you is in the scope of the effect.

One person's story doesn't prove anything. With that caveat, I'm pulling up a story from 2016 posted by NPR about a guy who built a fake news outlet in his garage in the Los Angeles area. What he said was fake news stories were accepted and shared by right wingers when the stories matched their biases. He tried the same tricks on the left and it didn't work on them nearly as well.

www.npr.org

We Tracked Down A Fake-News Creator In The Suburbs. Here's What We Learned

"The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right," says Jestin Coler, whose company, Disinfomedia, is behind some fake news sites.
www.npr.org www.npr.org

He says he got into fake news around 2013 to highlight the extremism of the white nationalist alt-right.

"The whole idea from the start was to build a site that could kind of infiltrate the echo chambers of the alt-right, publish blatantly or fictional stories and then be able to publicly denounce those stories and point out the fact that they were fiction," Coler says.

He was amazed at how quickly fake news could spread and how easily people believe it. He wrote one fake story for NationalReport.net about how customers in Colorado marijuana shops were using food stamps to buy pot.

"What that turned into was a state representative in the House in Colorado proposing actual legislation to prevent people from using their food stamps to buy marijuana based on something that had just never happened," Coler says.

anybody with a blog can get on there and find a big, huge Facebook group of kind of rabid Trump supporters just waiting to eat up this red meat that they're about to get served," Coler says. "It caused an explosion in the number of sites. I mean, my gosh, the number of just fake accounts on Facebook exploded during the Trump election."

Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait. You'll get debunked within the first two comments and then the whole thing just kind of fizzles out.

So, yes, fake news, propaganda, The Big Lie, do affect people and do motivate people to act out but the scope isn't uniform across our society. Some people are very susceptible, others not so much. I submit to you that the Women's March held in 2017 was a rebuke of Trump and Trumpism born out of women's rights struggle that began more than a hundred years ago. People have been writing and advocating for women's rights for that long and yeah, those essays, speeches and actions had an effect on how we think about those issues today. But I don't think Putin had much if anything to do with it. I think that because, well, dammit, Trump WAS a disgusting misogynist and nobody needed to write a fake news article to outrage women. The truth was outrageous enough.
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I would point to 'the Hill' and 'the Nation' and left-troll propaganda content to dispute the attack is not happening on the left.

And 1 out of 4 women who attended college was sexually assaulted. That boils down to in a typical college dorm one of the young women living there will experience it, and that also means on average all of the girls that attend a typical college in America is living with a friend that is going through the very real pain. So yeah I (once again) am not quantifying the impact the trolling had on the blue wave in 2018. I don't even think Trump had much to do with the very real pain.

Making this issue one of those really quick conversation ender's around the dinner table when a shit head uncle bitches about how women are ruining good ole boys lives (Kavanaugh troll).
 
printer

printer

Well-Known Member
This was a fun read. Only posted a teaser.
The next hustle: What we should expect from Trump
What will Donald Trump’s post-presidency look like? It’s really not a complicated question to answer. We know that Trump will never admit he lost (at least not “fairly”). He will want to get even with anyone he considers “disloyal.” But most of all, he will want to make as much money as he can. Unfortunately, those instincts will interfere with the other task reportedly at the top of his list: becoming president again.

Much has been made of the fall of the Trump brand and his potentially perilous financial condition. But Trump may make it through these difficulties more easily than you might think. He still has a large core of supporters and a certain aura.

Question: What is a good description of the prototypical MAGA Trump supporter? Answer: Someone who would do anything to get into Mar-a-Lago, but whom Trump would allow in only to fix the plumbing.

thehill.com

The next hustle: What we should expect from Trump

For the masses supporting him, Trump still stands for success and aspiration, and he can profit from that perception.
thehill.com thehill.com
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
hanimmal said:
I would point to 'the Hill' and 'the Nation' and left-troll propaganda content to dispute the attack is not happening on the left.

And 1 out of 4 women who attended college was sexually assaulted. That boils down to in a typical college dorm one of the young women living there will experience it, and that also means on average all of the girls that attend a typical college in America is living with a friend that is going through the very real pain. So yeah I (once again) am not quantifying the impact the trolling had on the blue wave in 2018. I don't even think Trump had much to do with the very real pain.

Making this issue one of those really quick conversation ender's around the dinner table when a shit head uncle bitches about how women are ruining good ole boys lives (Kavanaugh troll).
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I didn't say that it "didn't happen to the left". I said that was the conclusion this one expert found.

It is a fact that some personality types do not react strongly to fake news and propaganda while others do. I'm not completely on board with this guy's theories but he does have strong data to show that people who show high acceptance of authoritarian leadership are much more likely to accept fake news that supports their leadership.

www.dailykos.com

A word from Dr. Bob Altemeyer on Donald Trump and Authoritarian Followers.

This is a privilege and an honor. A few days ago, I read a story here discussing authoritarianism in the GOP and Donald Trump’s followers, and brought up the works of Dr. Bob Altemeyer. Since I follow
www.dailykos.com

Characteristic that are strongly associated with Right Wing Authoritarians:
  1. They are easily duped by manipulators who pretend to espouse their causes when all the con-artists really want is personal gain.
He claims that the kind of propaganda Putin and Republican propagandists put out is particularly useful to motivate authoritarian followers and not so useful on those to are anti-authoritarian.

Another paper that I've just started to review claims there are left and right wing authoritarians who have common personality traits with each other. So the problem may not be associated with left and right political adherents rather that the personality types of certain people, some of whom are on the political left and some of whom are on the political right.

 
Jimdamick

Jimdamick

Well-Known Member
printer said:
This was a fun read. Only posted a teaser.
The next hustle: What we should expect from Trump
What will Donald Trump’s post-presidency look like? It’s really not a complicated question to answer. We know that Trump will never admit he lost (at least not “fairly”). He will want to get even with anyone he considers “disloyal.” But most of all, he will want to make as much money as he can. Unfortunately, those instincts will interfere with the other task reportedly at the top of his list: becoming president again.

Much has been made of the fall of the Trump brand and his potentially perilous financial condition. But Trump may make it through these difficulties more easily than you might think. He still has a large core of supporters and a certain aura.

Question: What is a good description of the prototypical MAGA Trump supporter? Answer: Someone who would do anything to get into Mar-a-Lago, but whom Trump would allow in only to fix the plumbing.

thehill.com

The next hustle: What we should expect from Trump

For the masses supporting him, Trump still stands for success and aspiration, and he can profit from that perception.
thehill.com thehill.com
Click to expand...
He's fucking finished/adios/sayonara motherfucker
He's going to go bankrupt at least & very likely face prison time
I couldn't think of a more deserving person than him
 
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