Is it worth the extra money for a different bulb?

D

dawgfather

New Member
SO I am new to growing and one question I had is..

Is it worth the extra money to buy a "blue" (?) bulb of the grow and a "red" bulb for flower? HPS

As in the bulb that give the light spectrum of summer sun for the growing cycle and the red for the fall sun spectrum for the flower cycle?

Will the yelled be that much more as compared to just running a RED bulb the whole growth period?

I might have the RED and BLUE mixed up but I think thats correct
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
You got it right. I'd go with the bulb that has more Red. HPS generally has enough (or more than enough) of everything else. More Red can only help. Stretch shouldn't be too huge of an issue, and if you wanted you could even supplement the HPS with a little UV to get some of the benefits from using MH.

Btw, have you seen the Philips CDM "MasterColor" bulbs? Really nice spectral quality, imo.
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
Go with HPS if you can only get one. It will get you through both stages of growth. Get the MH later.

The spectrum from MH will get you tighter internodes and slightly quicker vegetative growth, but it doesn't bloom as well because it lacks the red late summer/early autumn spectrum at 2700K that MJ is looking for.
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
Here's a tip: If you're using 400 watt bulbs or less, buy them at Home Depot. They're half the price of the ones at the grow store.

While you DO need the proper spectrum, you DON'T need it enhanced for double the price. Especially on your first grow.
 
D

dawgfather

New Member
BudWhyz said:
Here's a tip: If you're using 400 watt bulbs or less, buy them at Home Depot. They're half the price of the ones at the grow store.

While you DO need the proper spectrum, you DON'T need it enhanced for double the price. Especially on your first grow.
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Nice tip! DO they not go over 400watts there? I was thinking of just getting a 1000w but I might go 1000 hps and 400 watt hd for clones and the mothers, they will be in a separate room together room. I assume since the mothers are going to be in veg. for an extended period of time that they don't need much light. after all I just want them to stay alive right? not grow through my ceiling! Or do people rotate mothers?
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
I think most people just trim mothers back assuming they're not kicking her out of the mother/veg tent for flowering purposes (perhaps to make room for a new mother). New shoots will grow back.

And, still, I'd highly recommend checking out the MasterColor series of CDM bulbs. Some are designed for MH ballasts while others are designed for HPS. Even if you don't go that route first time around it might be within your interest to buy a ballast that will work with these bulbs if you ever choose to check them out. I've heard really great things about them.

I'd also buy two 400W ballasts instead of one 1000W. You should get slightly better coverage.

GL!
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
Bumping Spheda said:
I'd also buy two 400W ballasts instead of one 1000W. You should get slightly better coverage.

GL!
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I was gonna say the exact same thing. That's what I have in my tent. Check out the link in my signature.
This was debated on here somewhere, but as it turns out, two 400w's provide a higher lumen count than a single 1000w based on the required distance between each bulb to your canopy.
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
As far as mother plants go, you're constantly trimming them for clones. And when you're not using/donating the clipping/clones, you're throwing them away or composting them.

People often rotate mothers to maintain vigor by switching them out for one of their own well established clones, thus preserving the identical genetics and phenotypes.
 
D

dawgfather

New Member
Bumping Spheda said:
I think most people just trim mothers back assuming they're not kicking her out of the mother/veg tent for flowering purposes (perhaps to make room for a new mother). New shoots will grow back.

And, still, I'd highly recommend checking out the MasterColor series of CDM bulbs. Some are designed for MH ballasts while others are designed for HPS. Even if you don't go that route first time around it might be within your interest to buy a ballast that will work with these bulbs if you ever choose to check them out. I've heard really great things about them.

I'd also buy two 400W ballasts instead of one 1000W. You should get slightly better coverage.

GL!
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I wasnt aware you needed a different ballast for a MH vs a HPS I thought the ballast were just watt specific, as in I need a 400 watt ballast for a 400w bulb and a 1000 watt ballast for a 1000 watt bulb regardless of which type of bulb. Are you saying there are MH ballast and HPS ballast?

Also could the mothers be under CF as well as clones or would they clone growth be to slow? CF intrigues me because they dont put out much heat so I could have them much closer and they dont use near as much energy as other lights. Would a CF light say 1 foot away be just as effective as a MH light 3 feet away or is the spectrum on the CF just not great for growing. Basically I know they don't put out as many lumins but wouldnt putting them closer just make up for that?

and ill check out Mastercolor im just trying to learn about lights.
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
There are universal ballasts, but generally, yes, MH and HPS have their own respective ballasts.

Flouro's have fine spectral qualities. AFAIK they are a bit more peaky (really high highs and really low lows that are rather erratic) not too disimilar from other light sources (HID, Plasma, Induction... the Sun). People have used CFL's to grow plants since forever and still do. Nothing wrong with them past that they have Mercury in them and many people dispose of them improperly. Depending on how many Watts you were planning to veg under, however, I'd recommend using LED's. LED's can be expensive, but I have a feeling you're only talking maybe 50W here in which case you can buy a set of those Philips L-Prize bulbs off eBay, rig em up, and be set exactly as you would with CFL's. There are even cheaper sources for undeniably veg capable LED's if you're a little more DIY inclined.
 
D

dawgfather

New Member
Bumping Spheda said:
There are universal ballasts, but generally, yes, MH and HPS have their own respective ballasts.

Flouro's have fine spectral qualities. AFAIK they are a bit more peaky (really high highs and really low lows that are rather erratic) not too disimilar from other light sources (HID, Plasma, Induction... the Sun). People have used CFL's to grow plants since forever and still do. Nothing wrong with them past that they have Mercury in them and many people dispose of them improperly. Depending on how many Watts you were planning to veg under, however, I'd recommend using LED's. LED's can be expensive, but I have a feeling you're only talking maybe 50W here in which case you can buy a set of those Philips L-Prize bulbs off eBay, rig em up, and be set exactly as you would with CFL's. There are even cheaper sources for undeniably veg capable LED's if you're a little more DIY inclined.
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Do I need different LED's for each stage? They seem expensive at first but Id probably save on not only electricity but I wouldn't need near as much cooling equipment. How many of these would you say could replace a 1000 watt HPS? Obviously I would need them close to the plants, but not a big deal
 
Bumping Spheda

Bumping Spheda

Well-Known Member
1000W HPS? A lot of them, bro. You'd need a heck of a lot of them. I thought you were talking about strictly vegging and sustaining mothers with CFL's, so I figured why not splurge a little at the start and never have to replace a bulb. If you're talking about flowering a large ~4'x4' area with little 12.5W LED bulbs it'd be a bear to set up. Doesn't make sense, imo. I'd say you'd need roughly 600W to yield comparative results with a 1kW HPS, but I'm the wrong guy to ask. At that point you'd be looking more along the lines of a couple Area-51 panels, imo.
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
Bumping Spheda said:
1000W HPS? A lot of them, bro. You'd need a heck of a lot of them. I thought you were talking about strictly vegging and sustaining mothers with CFL's, so I figured why not splurge a little at the start and never have to replace a bulb. If you're talking about flowering a large ~4'x4' area with little 12.5W LED bulbs it'd be a bear to set up. Doesn't make sense, imo. I'd say you'd need roughly 600W to yield comparative results with a 1kW HPS, but I'm the wrong guy to ask. At that point you'd be looking more along the lines of a couple Area-51 panels, imo.
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Not to mention all the cords you'd need to plug in.
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
I also forgot to mention that there are MH/HPS conversion ballasts that power both bulbs. They are available in 250, 400, 600 and 1000 watts.
 
BudWhyz

BudWhyz

Active Member
Kite High said:
http://www.lightbeaminc.com/products/led-grow-light
If you want LED check this out. I like the design but not the price
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:oWHOA!
I'd like to see some grow journals with that thing. But I somehow doubt I'll be seeing one any time soon lol.

Come to think of it, even if you were primarily concerned about heat, you could get multiple 1000 watt lights with solid ventilation or AC for that same price tag. Something tells me that light is designed for laboratories and whatnot. Maybe extremely difficult to grow plants used in medications, ointments, salves etc.
 
Kite High

Kite High

Well-Known Member
BudWhyz said:
:oWHOA!
I'd like to see some grow journals with that thing. But I somehow doubt I'll be seeing one any time soon lol.

Come to think of it, even if you were primarily concerned about heat, you could get multiple 1000 watt lights with solid ventilation or AC for that same price tag. Something tells me that light is designed for laboratories and whatnot. Maybe extremely difficult to grow plants used in medications, ointments, salves etc.
Click to expand...
Did very much correspondence and phone conversations with them...they designed it for cannabis they say and have a phd botanist on board...great design IMO but pricing structure need to normalize
 
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