is co2 worth getting?

A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
Dr. Who said:
What Co2 really does is replace the ability of the plant to effectively "grow" at normal growth rates that the light saturation point removes during the normal grow day. This light saturation point hits the plant earlier then many think. It's (the plant) cells in the leaves actually begin to change on the peptide level. This change is to actually protect the plant from the intense light of day. This includes UVB protection.
This reduces active plant growth by around 30 - 33%+ per day.

At night, the plants reverses gears, and the cells change back to being able to use all the light energy they get.

Gassing will stimulate the plant to increase it's actions to negate the need to protect it's self. It then grows at normal rates, longer and you reclaim that 30% or so lost growth from light saturation points.
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Would it not only reduce the growth rate occurring after the light saturation point (unknown). You would still get a normal growth rate until that point, and then a reduction in growth after that point which would still total more growth. At least until the point where damage to the leaves is occurring.

Got me thinking and doing some digging on the light saturation and came across this. While all species are different this paper is about as close of research as i can find generically speaking about cannabis and doesn't answer my question but it provides some interesting data. A lot of this stuff i am aware but was surprised at the Co2.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3550641/pdf/12298_2008_Article_27.pdf

Without Co2 supplementation at 30C there are increased rates of photosynthesis up to 1500ppfd although clearly the benefits past 1000ppfd are reduced and this study does not show the reduction once the saturation point has been reached. I could not for the life of me find a study that would come close to giving me a light saturation point in cannabis. Probably because one does not exist yet. It also shows that Co2 has a larger effect than i previously thought even at lower levels in those conditions, but since it stops at 750ppm you can't tell how much it increases beyond this point since it would again be on a curve. And because of the duration of light this study doesn't provide a good overall picture of how many ppm Co2 above 750ppm in relation to differing ppfd will increase photosynthesis or not over a full 18 or 12 hr cycle.
 
digging

digging

Well-Known Member
I run a chiller system for cooling and the air handlers that convert the chilled water to cool air are very effective at dehumidification. I have 2 of 215 pint dehumidifiers in each of my flower rooms and they only come on when the lights are out.

In regards to c02 in the veg room, I have sealed rooms including the veg room, so the c02 has to be supplemented regardless to 400 ppm. Not much of a cost difference to run higher ppm’s as the rooms are insulated with spray foam so they are really nicely sealed without any leakage.

I have read where using c02 in veg really accelerates the growth especially with veg lights on 24/7.

Trying to learn as much about c02 as I can to maximize my rooms.
 
A

Aqua Man

Well-Known Member
digging said:
I run a chiller system for cooling and the air handlers that convert the chilled water to cool air are very effective at dehumidification. I have 2 of 215 pint dehumidifiers in each of my flower rooms and they only come on when the lights are out.

In regards to c02 in the veg room, I have sealed rooms including the veg room, so the c02 has to be supplemented regardless to 400 ppm. Not much of a cost difference to run higher ppm’s as the rooms are insulated with spray foam so they are really nicely sealed without any leakage.

I have read where using c02 in veg really accelerates the growth especially with veg lights on 24/7.

Trying to learn as much about c02 as I can to maximize my rooms.
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I would stick with 18/6 lighting personally. The plants perform different processes during lights on/off so some dark period is needed
 
TintEastwood

TintEastwood

Well-Known Member
Doh. Ran my 20lb tank completely out one day. Noticed reading of 280ppm on my Co2 controller!!! Yikes. Plants were sucking down on my Co2! I had it set to maintain 800ppm.
By the time I showed up with a full tank an hour later......down to 220. Chokin!!
 
Dividedsky

Dividedsky

Well-Known Member
Yes co2 is worth it, its what the plants breath in. Most ambient levels with out running co2 in a room are at 300-400ppms I believe, so a boost is just that a boost. I just started running a 20lb tank in my sealed room with mini split and am noticing a huge positive results compared to when I ran a passive system with air-cooled hoods.
 
Dividedsky

Dividedsky

Well-Known Member
Also meant to say in short if your grow is dialed in to the max and you have a perfect growing environment, a sealed room ect. then yes its worth it, if not, no its a waste of money.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
vostok said:
No... most if not all commercial operators has given C02 the flip

as weed prices have crashed the last 12 months margins are tighter and tighter

for many like me if I want bigger more weed

just grow more weed everyones different

but at the end of the day its all about Cash!

happy 420 http://catnews.org/FREE Pot Books/

good luck
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No.

If your grow is in a controlled/sealed environment, you must supplement CO2 in order to maintain growth. In such an environment, up to 1500ppm can accelerate growth, provided all other parameters are on point.

When CO2 levels fall below 250ppm, plant growth slows and even stops. It's a necessary nutrient.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
digging said:
I recently read, and I will quote Ed Rosenthal “ If you’re not using C02, you’re just wasting your electricity “

I have just started running C02 in sealed rooms. I am in the middle of dialing in my rooms with the help of the Pulse sensors. I need more humidity to run the correct VPD #’s. Ordered larger humidifiers, should arrive this week.

Faster growth using C02 will be a joy to watch and experience.

Can anyone suggest a ppm of C02 for a veg room?
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Ummmm...

The best humidifiers in a sealed grow room should be the plants. If you can't get your RH up in a sealed room something's wrong. Possible causes could include air leaks, too much air volume for the plants or metabolism issues.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Apalchen said:
I having been growing quite some time without C02. I will be adding it in as I get the money. But honestly it scares me to make a lot of changes all at once. This go will be first run in new room, under new lights(gavitas). Even if I had the money for C02 now I would hesitant to run it with so many changes all at once. Like someone up above said if your not completely dialed in already it’s not gonna help and might hurt as the faster a plant grows the faster problems get out of hand. I also still can’t decide on burner vs tank. I have some people tell me that for a 4K room I’ll go thru 2 tanks a week and then others say they only go thru one tank every 3 weeks. That’s a big difference in cost and time spent trading out tanks.
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Unless you have a leaky room, you'll get several weeks out of a 20lb tank.
 
A

Apalchen

Well-Known Member
Thanks guys I had hoped that was the case for some reason guy at my store said he goes thru 2-3 tanks a week he must be venting his gas pretty often.
 
Dividedsky

Dividedsky

Well-Known Member
Apalchen said:
Thanks guys I had hoped that was the case for some reason guy at my store said he goes thru 2-3 tanks a week he must be venting his gas pretty often.
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Even if you were running a tank in a room outside of the grow room and running a passive system in the grow room the would be sucking co2 in say a tent over the plants that still seem a bit much. I would still seal whatever room you were running the co2 in though, for example- if you had a grow tent with a passive air system in a spare bedroom and ran the tank in the bedroom the tent would be pulling co2 from bedroom in the tent. It would be tougher to seal the bedroom with all the cracks doors windows and closets, ect. Its easier at least for me to run a tank in my grow room with the line running into my flower room,(tank actually sits outside of the grow room). My flower room was built and framed to be a grow room and it was in the basement so I could seal up everything.
 
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A

Apalchen

Well-Known Member
Dividedsky said:
Even if you were running a tank in a room outside of the grow room and running a passive system in the grow room the would be sucking co2 in say a tent over the plants that still seem a bit much. I would still seal the whatever room you were running the co2 in though, for example- if you had a grow tent with a passive air system in a spare bedroom and ran the tank in the bedroom the tent would be pulling co2 in the tent it would be tougher to seal the bedroom with all the cracks doors windows and closets, ect. Its easier at least for me to run a tank in my grow room with the line running into my flower room,(tank actually sit outside of the grow room). My flower room was built and framed to be a grow room and it was in the basement so I could seal up everything.
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Tent comes down in a few days I built a flower room around it. So have to wait til it’s down and out of the way to finish sealing but I’ve been using foam and caulking and also have panda film to hang as soon as the tent gets out the way. So it should be sealed up pretty good other than my intake and exhaust which I was thinking of leaving and using dampers so I can vent the room in case of emergency high temps and also to get rid of C02 right after lights kick off.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Apalchen said:
Tent comes down in a few days I built a flower room around it. So have to wait til it’s down and out of the way to finish sealing but I’ve been using foam and caulking and also have panda film to hang as soon as the tent gets out the way. So it should be sealed up pretty good other than my intake and exhaust which I was thinking of leaving and using dampers so I can vent the room in case of emergency high temps and also to get rid of C02 right after lights kick off.
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A smart controller would allow you to add CO2 according to a schedule, like right at lights on and then off an hour or two before lights out, allowing the plants to use the excess and avoiding the need to vent.

Another consideration; research has shown that plants adapt to a given level of CO2 by varying the density of stomata on the leaves grown under those conditions. High concentration result in leaves with few stomata, limiting the effectiveness of supplementation.

I got around this by varying the CO2 level throughout the day; if let it drop to 400ppm, then blast it up to 1800ppm and let the plants eat it down. It had the same benefits and my tanks lasted longer.
 
Dividedsky

Dividedsky

Well-Known Member
Apalchen said:
Tent comes down in a few days I built a flower room around it. So have to wait til it’s down and out of the way to finish sealing but I’ve been using foam and caulking and also have panda film to hang as soon as the tent gets out the way. So it should be sealed up pretty good other than my intake and exhaust which I was thinking of leaving and using dampers so I can vent the room in case of emergency high temps and also to get rid of C02 right after lights kick off.
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panda paper is awesome for sealing rooms and as a reflective surface, my flower room and floors are covered in it. I use tents for veg.
 

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