INTENSE LST with wire twist. Trial run on bag seed. Lots of pics.

georgyboy

Active Member
Hey guys I'm still relatively new to growing, I've had a few grows but I'm yet to get a harvest worth mentioning. (Hermies, budrot). I really like watching lst and scrog grows, and I'm gonna try my own thing that I haven't seen anyone else do yet, though I highly doubt I'm the first person in the world (or even on RIU) to do it. The plan is to tie a wire twist around the stem, and use it to train the plant down, kind of tying it to itself. I've got some bag seed going right now so that I can practice without wasting good genetics if I do anything poorly. I'll be growing with a 250w MH conversion bulb for veg and a 250w HPS for flower. I'm also trying to do this organically. First organic grow.

The Ladies are sharing space with all of my garden veggies too, but the vegetables are on their way out to the garden. Just been waiting for temps to stabilize outside. There's all kinds of sweet peppers, a couple tomatoes in rough shape, a tomatillo plant, jalapeno, habanero, serrano, and the infamous ghost pepper as well. Plus four cannabis plants.

This is them crowding each other under 6 25w cfls while a plant finished flowering under the 250. The pot's on the right.
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Day one of 250 MH.Up to this point they had had no feedings, but I finally got some organic supplements. Started giving some fish emulsion and kelp meal, as well as a AACT feeding. They're in Miracle Grow organic choice. It's been in my closet for 8 months and I figured i should give it a try for the test run, mixed with a little perlite and vermiculite. (I've got better dirt baking in the sun for my next grow right now) They're in 16oz plastic cups, but the roots are begging for more space at this point. As soon as I get all those other plants out of there they are getting transplanted. Anyways, on to the training. I failed to take a pic of the first ties, sorry. Starting this thread just became an idea today while i was day dreaming at work. Luckily I had the pictures of the beginning of the grow.

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All pics from here forward were taken about four hours ago. We're at close to two weeks underneath the 250. The plants had a phase where they looked rough, but after some fish emulsion, kelp meal, an AACT, and some bloodmeal around the base of the plant, you can see much better new growth. Each plant has something a little different going on, close ups next.
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Lady Number One. She's been tied down once but has grown back already. The first two pics were taken before I brought her down, the next two afterwards.

Lady 1 5-1.jpgLady 1 5-1(2).jpgIMG_1807.jpgIMG_1808.jpg

Lady Number Three. Same thing as number one.

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Lady Number Two. I over-bent her and snapped her a couple days back. This really freaked me out for a minute. I thought about cutting her at the break and in essence topping the plant but instead I untied her and haven't bent her since. She seems to be healing up nicely though, and has even continued to grow well. I applied no bandages.

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Lady Number Four. Lucky number four. I chose her as my test subject. I bent her in half and tied her to the stem again. I thought that the lower nodes would explode up in response, but over the course of the week she just turned her head back up straight. My second bend with her is the same as with the other Ladies.

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Alright guys that's all I have for now. I'll do my best to get updates on here often. I'll at least post each training session.
 

georgyboy

Active Member
nugbuckets thread is pretty sweet. He seems to have that down and it looks like it gets good results. I just don't like cutting the plant. It's a pretty brutal attack on your ladies. I'd rather find a way to do it without the razor.
 

georgyboy

Active Member
I know, it was supposed to be very temporary. The weather was great and everything was to go outside and the ladies to be put in 2 gallon grow bags. But then it stormed. Then we had several straight frost. Then it stormed. Now it's 90 degrees outside. I can't keep guessing though, everything is starting to get rootbound.
 

georgyboy

Active Member
Heres a quick update with some more pics. It's been three days. Three of the four plants had grown back up with the top looking straight up again. Couldn't find my camera when I was doing it so I didn't take before pics, just have the pictures from after I bent them all back down. I also found some blue 16 oz cups in my kitchen so I set the clear cups inside those cups. The roots are pro tected from the light and I can still take the cups out to see root development. win/win. I'm starting to have some serious fungus gnat problems. I've tried the potato slice on the soil thing, and haven't seen a single larva wriggling around in the potatos. I've also tried setting out some beer because I read they come to the beer and drown. Hasn't worked. And I've tried apple cider vinegar because I heard they're attracted to it but then get stuck, like stick traps. This only killed a bunch of ants. Next i'm getting some neem oil and sticky tape. I know it helps to let the soil get crispy dry between waterings a couple of times, but there are so many different plants that when some are nice and dry there are some that were just watered the day before. Hopefully when the grow room is occupied with only marijuana again I can get a hold on these gnats. Also, a couple of the plants are having weird discoloring on a few leaves. Posting pics, hopefully someone knows what is going on here. My temps have been high, about 90 degrees, but the plants don't seem to mind it. I water based on the weight of the cup and the feel of the soil. Plants are close to a month old. 250w mh light. 18/6 schedule. One other maybe important factor is that the plants are growing along with my garden veggies, which I have been hardening off this week. So every day all the veggies go outside but are brought back in and set next to the mj plants again. This will end tomorrow. Anyone with suggestions for the gnats and info about the leaf discoloration is greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Lady Number One
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Lady Number Two She is the one that had the snap along its main stem. I finally got up the nerve to train her back down, and I bent her against the break, in the opposite direction I was training her when she broke. The forced the slit closed, and now it seems to have healed nicely in less than 2 days. The last pic is a close up of where the stem had snapped. You can still make out the break if you look close.
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Lady Number Three
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Lady Number Four
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The Crew
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Leaf discoloration. 2 different plants.
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georgyboy

Active Member
I'd also like to say I'm not 100 percent on the journal rules, so I want to put it out there that I encourage posts from other users on this thread. I want feedback and responses because I think it is the best way to learn. Post your thoughts on my grow, negative or positive, I have an open mind and I will listen. Now to decide if I want to smoke the chocolope or the OG Kush....
 

georgyboy

Active Member
Finally got them transplanted last night. As i topped off the last bag with some extra soil the lights kicked off.

Group (5-9)2.jpgGroup (5-9)after transplant.jpg

The little solo cups have some new beans that are going right into flower with the older girls. There's also some tomatillos. I got one for my garden and just found out that you need at least two for pollination or there will be no fruits.

This morning I did some more lst after the lights kicked on.
Lady 1
Lady 1 (5-10).jpgLady 1 (5-10)down.jpg

Lady 2
Lady 2 (5-10).jpgLady 2 (5-10)down.jpg

Lady 3
Lady 3 (5-10).jpgLady 3 (5-10)2.jpgLady 3 (5-10)down.jpg

Lady 4 didn't get trained today
Lady 4 (5-10).jpgLady 4 (5-10)2.jpg

Anyone know who my little friend here is?
Spider Friend.jpgSpider Friend 2.jpg

Well thats the update. Let me know what you think. The leaves are rolling on number 4 like nute burn but i'm growing all organic. any tips appreciated
 

TheDuder

Active Member
Those twist ties wont restrain a bigger girl. String will work. Organic doesn't mean impervious to nute burn. No clear cups. Wrap them in duct tape and punch holes in the bottom. Add perlite to soil for aeration and water absorption. Yellow leaves is a sign of a nitrogen deficiency. Seriously consider letting the plant grow a few nodes before stressing her so much. Also, don't re-tie or fiddle with them every day. Stress slows growth to a halt when severe. Start the plant in it's permanent home. Kill the fucking spider!

-Dude'r
 

georgyboy

Active Member
theres a lot in that post dude'r. You're probably right these ties won't hold a thicker stem, I haven't though about that. I wait a few days between the tie downs. I let the top node ouotgrow the rest of the plant before I tie it back down. I know you can still burn organic, the 12/12 from seed plants are in a very rich soil, I hope they don't burn but they may, what do I do if they do? The trained plants are in their final home, 2 gal. grow bags, and the 12/12 are going 16oz. all the way. I read a few threads by subcool and other growers who said perlite and vermiculite were wasted space. A good plant will develop it's roots and do fine in a loose soil without adding things that don't react in the environment. Show me a forest that has perlite and vermiculite spread throughout the forest floor. The main reason I didn't use any though is when I was making the soil the only perlite I had on hand was mg and it has chem nutes in it so I didn't want to add that to my mix. New growth is a lot greener than old growth, does that mean the problem has been fixed or will the yellow creep up the plant? I have some fish emulsion and blood meal handy if the yellowing persist, which is available to the plant faster? The spider is still there, thought he might eat the fungus gnats, am I wrong? Thanks for stopping by man.
 

georgyboy

Active Member
Update! I switched to 12/12 on the 11th. These pictures were taken in the middle of the day on the 13th. Lady Number Three is quickly becoming my favorite plant. She's always perky and green. Lady Number One looks good two. On a side note ladies 2 and 4 have received a couple doses of superthrive where ladies 1 and 3 have not. Besides the superthrive all schedules have been identical. The two that haven't received any superthrive seem to be growing much better. I will continue this experiment throughout the grow. Now some pics.

Group shot
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Lady Number One before and after lst
Lady 1 (5-13).jpgLady 1 (5-13)down.jpg

Lady Number Two
Lady 2 (5-13).jpgLady 2 (5-13)down.jpg

My favorite Lady Number Three
Lady 3 (5-13).jpgLady 3 (5-13)2.jpgLady 3 (5-13)stem.jpgLady 3 (5-13)stem2.jpgLady 3 (5-13)down.jpg

Lady Number Four (The Ugly Duckiling)
Lady 4 (5-13).jpgLady 4 (5-13)down.jpg

12/12
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That's it for now. I have a new high velocity fan blowing on them and it knocked the temps down an extra couple of degrees. around 85f normally now. Still a little warm for me. I'm closing off the closet soon, and getting good ventilation, so hopefully that can get the temps down into the 70fs like they should be.
 

georgyboy

Active Member
dude'r! Just remembered that I also have some stuff to tie down the plant when it gets bigger. I can't remember what it's called right now and it's in the grow room which is lights off. It's green, thick, but soft and foamy. I got it at walmart. Do you think that could hold a larger plant. As you can see I'm already entering flower, so my plants won't be that large.
 

delvite

Well-Known Member
Finally got them transplanted last night. As i topped off the last bag with some extra soil the lights kicked off.

View attachment 2161683View attachment 2161684

The little solo cups have some new beans that are going right into flower with the older girls. There's also some tomatillos. I got one for my garden and just found out that you need at least two for pollination or there will be no fruits.

This morning I did some more lst after the lights kicked on.
Lady 1
View attachment 2161686View attachment 2161687

Lady 2
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Lady 3
View attachment 2161700View attachment 2161701View attachment 2161702

Lady 4 didn't get trained today
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Anyone know who my little friend here is?
View attachment 2161716View attachment 2161717

Well thats the update. Let me know what you think. The leaves are rolling on number 4 like nute burn but i'm growing all organic. any tips appreciated
seems like "high stress training" to me. the yellowing could be from repairs the plants are doing to them selves ( taking nutes ) dont push them to far or they may become very defficient or herm ;)
 

delvite

Well-Known Member
Update! I switched to 12/12 on the 11th. These pictures were taken in the middle of the day on the 13th. Lady Number Three is quickly becoming my favorite plant. She's always perky and green. Lady Number One looks good two. On a side note ladies 2 and 4 have received a couple doses of superthrive where ladies 1 and 3 have not. Besides the superthrive all schedules have been identical. The two that haven't received any superthrive seem to be growing much better. I will continue this experiment throughout the grow. Now some pics.

Group shot
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Lady Number One before and after lst
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Lady Number Two
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My favorite Lady Number Three
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Lady Number Four (The Ugly Duckiling)
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12/12
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That's it for now. I have a new high velocity fan blowing on them and it knocked the temps down an extra couple of degrees. around 85f normally now. Still a little warm for me. I'm closing off the closet soon, and getting good ventilation, so hopefully that can get the temps down into the 70fs like they should be.
..........................looking good and sounds like a plan :) keep it up ;)
 

georgyboy

Active Member
So I was looking at my journal and I realized I have been posting plenty of pics, but I haven't really mentioned basic grow stats. So here they are:

Light - HTGSupply Ultimate Grow Light 250w MH/HPS
Container - 2 gal grow bags for older girls, 16 oz solo cups for 12/12 from seed
Soil - older girls are in a mix I made of MG organic choice with added blood meal, bone meal, worm castings, bat guano, rock phosphate, green sand, kelp meal, and mushroom compost. plus some lime. I kinda just winged it with how much of each thing I added. I put it all in a large bucket and let it sit in the sun for 2 days. The 12/12 group is in epsona potting mix. The bottom half of each cup has a super strong mix. For each cup I added a tsp-tbsp of each ingredient already listed, except the bloodmeal. I added a bunch of worm castings also. Then i added a couple inches of plain epsona, and then I added the plug and surrounded it with soil. Just experimenting with stuff here. It's all new to me.
Genetics - bag seed from a bag of mids that always made me feel chill and happy.
Watering schedule - Water by weight of container
Temperature - Stays around 83-85f lately

I have also given the plants 2 aact feedings. The first was early when they had just been put under the MH. I gave them another one when I transplanted. And I will probably brew a high fungus tea and feed with it about 5 weeks into flower.

Final note, I have been curious about superthirve and how it fits into an organic grow, so I decided to do a little experiment. Plants 1 and 3 have not received any superthrive at all. Plants 2 and 4 have been getting superthrive 2ml per gallon every few waterings. Other than that treatment of the plants has been relatively identical, except for the way i've been training plant 4.
 

TheDuder

Active Member
None of those would be near medical quality. You'll never get what I achieve in garbage soil. Especially not under a thick forest canopy. It is a weed, so it can grow in concrete; but, she wouldn't hand you a pound. There are many mediums which will maximize nutrient, water, or oxygen uptake in varying amounts. Choosing a method which unifies this trinity is the goal.
 

jpockets420

Well-Known Member
hmmm...so now you can't grow medical quality cannabis outdoors? I beg to differ. I have grown some good bud in the forest on the slope of a mound of bullweeds to blend it. It got probably 4-5 hours of direct sunlight, there was a thick canopy of trees overhead once the direct sunlight ended so the rest of the day was dim light. The sun is strong. I would bet even under a forest canopy the sun would push more than say a 400W hps would over the whole area of the grow since the sun shines at all angles. It would probably register much more than that though IMO. Kush genetics comes from forests in northern pakistan,afghanistan etc and grows on the start of the mountain slopes in the wild, surrounded by trees. Everybody knows that any kush strain is highly medicinal. So mr. know it all needs to do a little research before posting nonsense. Btw georgyboy, your doing good, experimentation is the best. Keep doing what your doing and in no time you will be a master grower. +Rep to you
 
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