Anon618
Well-Known Member
Back under my rock..
Inside the Mind of Climate Denial
- Thread starter ttystikk
- Start date
The Government
Member
There is nothing at stake for big oil, there is nothing of scale to replace it atm. Research funding could end any moment. So you're way off base.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This theory was advanced by the late Dr William Gray at the Colorado State University Atmospheric Sciences Department. He was the original author of the yearly hurricane forecast so his influence was substantial. He argued strongly that climate change was due to solar cycles and so his students did a great deal of work validating this thesis.
They proved the opposite.
No matter what the sun is doing- and it doesn't change much, or life on Earth wouldn't exist in the first place- atmospheric carbon dioxide will still affect temperatures here and therefore an increase in CO² will result in higher temperatures.
Weather and climate records are bearing this out in very close agreement with projections based on increased CO² emissions.
There's another factor that's recently become a more widely recognized influence on climate and that's the high and rising levels of methane emissions. These are coming from the fossil fuel industry, primarily fracking. They're also starting to come from methane hydrates and clathrates that are dissolving as tundra and oceans warm up.
This cannot be explained away by solar cycles:
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
This is raw drivel.
The science is well known.
You've bought into propaganda and mistaken it for science.
It's on you to learn the difference.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
More drivel. Those with the most at stake are the major shareholders of coal fired power utilities.
Small wonder their conclusions are so self serving.
Do you own stock in Duke Energy? If so, I'd sell.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Funny you should mention him. The article does an excellent job of tying climate change denial to deeper components of the Conservative psyche.
Fearful, bigoted...
Leading to an environmental outlook centered around Dominion and exploitation of the Earth's natural resources rather than conservation.
It's a fascinating read, the author discusses much more than climate science.
The Government
Member
What is at the ready right now at this moment to knock oil, voal and nuclear out this year? Or any one of them individually?
Right. Nothing.
And no, I do not support big tobacco which is where duke started.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
So switch the argument to personal attacks when you've lost the debate.
Classic right wing substitution of thinking for argument.
'Position' implies debate. There's no debate on climate change. Only self interested denial propaganda. Why else would the most intelligent and elite Republicans also be the most student deniers?
FOLLOW THE MONEY.
The Government
Member
Followed some money to al Gore's house and didn't see any wind turbines or solar panels, really odd.
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
Cool, I'm not personally or emotionally invested in any one way or another. I def know we are fucking the planet up and specifically the oceans. I hate what's been done to them and how quickly its turning to shit out there.
On the sun cycles thing, I'm not familiar with that guy or his students work. But as far as I understand the idea, every 400 years or so we have cooling and heating, and it really isnt much as you say. Like 20*f colder winters than normal for the cold and I dont know for the heating just before the cold cycle.
Anyways just think it makes sense that a more active or less active sun could have a effect here, we know it goes three more and less active stages. More sun spots, less sunspots. Ejections etc.
All that could be wrong, and maybe the sun doesn't have periods of more activity or less activity. I'm not a professional. As a gardener, seasons seem logical though.
And no matter what else, even IF humans has zero impact on global temp, we have many pressing reasons to actively heal our world. We are killing the oceans, and we need them to live. Land animals are going extinct in a scary fast way.
And again. Not saying humans have zero impact on global temps. Just to be really extra clear.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Astonishingly obtuse. Is that why they're furiously lobbying to limit and even eliminate renewable energy?
They've seen the handwriting- in the form of double entry bookkeeping- that says renewables are already cheaper than installed fossil fuel based power generation, let alone nuclear.
They're fighting a rearguard action to protect their own investments and they don't care if the planet suffers.
That's the kind of amoral behavior that has cynically suckered you in. The sooner you recognize it, the better off you'll be.
ttystikk
Well-Known Member
Stay there until you've actually read some climate science.
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
Lol dude is attacking people in every post and your calling me out for saying his name is ironic? Really dude?
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
Dude
He pointed out to you that the "other factors" you said weren't accounted for are in fact accounted for in AGW climate model predictions. The cooling cycle the sun is now entering? Well known, well understood and factored into the figures for projected temperature rise from climate science models that also account for the greenhouse effect due to human activities.
I can sympathize with his aggravation. We have an entire industry and lobby group who have bamboozled enough people that the US government is actively pursuing goals for burning fossil fuels that will only accelerate the damage we already see. If you had seen coral reef the die-offs that AC has seen, you'd be uninterested in coddling climate denial fools too.
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure I've said several times what is being done to the oceans is horrible and needs lots of money and physical work and we need to heal our planet.
I think the massive ammount of plastics and toxic waste, along with trash barges are a MAJOR aspect of this.
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
I dont see the reason to become agro at people who are just having a chat online, especially when the 2 parties are saying mostly the exact same thing.
I'm saying humans COULD have a lesser impact on the heating of the planet than the sun does, and we are both saying that the actions of humans are killing this planets oceans and wildlife and we need to seriously work on reversing that.
It's seriously one hippy yelling at another hippy.
You guys like to act like people on here "are the real problem an if we can get that person to kill em self the world will be better" when we are all basically pot head hippies right?
I mean, I know I am. I'm doing my part. I buy very little, went to a liberal arts college, did the whole walk dont drive, took the bus, all that.
Not everyone is the enemy. Look for friends too.
I'm saying humans COULD have a lesser impact on the heating of the planet than the sun does, and we are both saying that the actions of humans are killing this planets oceans and wildlife and we need to seriously work on reversing that.
It's seriously one hippy yelling at another hippy.
You guys like to act like people on here "are the real problem an if we can get that person to kill em self the world will be better" when we are all basically pot head hippies right?
I mean, I know I am. I'm doing my part. I buy very little, went to a liberal arts college, did the whole walk dont drive, took the bus, all that.
Not everyone is the enemy. Look for friends too.
Fogdog
Well-Known Member
You said that global climate models don't account for "other factors" such as the cooling cycle that the sun is now in. That is demonstrably false and I'm glad to point that out to you.
Coral reefs are very sensitive to temperature change. Bleaching due to water temperature change is a very well known phenomenon.
What you think is clearly muddled and therefore irrelevant. However, it is true that pollution makes coral reefs even more susceptible to bleaching.
Not sure if you are US citizen or not. What do you think of the US's breaking its agreement with practically all other countries by leaving the Paris climate agreement?
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
You've already said my thinking is clearly muddled and therefore irrelevant but you asked a follow up question. So if we have a conversation are you hoping to just pepper it with insults the whole way or what's the game plan?
travisw
Well-Known Member
He put 33 panels in 11 years ago.
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/18174408/ns/us_news-environment/t/gore-gets-ok-go-solar-tenn-home/#.W05QxNJKhEY
NASHVILLE, Tennessee — Former Vice President Al Gore's upscale neighborhood granted the environmental activist approval Tuesday to install 33 solar panels on the roof of his mansion.
The city of Belle Meade had blocked his application until new rules were approved unanimously late Tuesday, said Gore spokesman Chris Song. The city, located within metropolitan Nashville, said the panels must be placed in areas where they can't be seen by neighbors.
growingforfun
Well-Known Member
I haven't even been to a gas station this month, I think it's actually been about 30 days since the last gas station visit when I took my wife to a doctor appointment out of town. Who else posting in this thread can say that honestly right now? I'm honestly curious. It's not that I drive a hybrid or something, I have a 4 cylinder pickup with hippy bumper stickers taking up a lot of the tailgate. I just dont drive it much. So while your mad at me, are you also doing your part?