Insanely Concentrated Wealth Is Strangling Our Prosperity

SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
I would think that any civilisation sufficiently advanced to cross interstellar space and pay us a visit would do everything they could to avoid detection. Stealth, long range sensing, the works...

After all, we're a crazy bunch of motherfuckers and there's no telling what we'd do if we actually got confirmation they were here!
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The problem is even if they have mastered super luminal speeds, the radio waves we produce would take thousands of years to get anywhere, so anywhere in the cosmos further than a handful of light years we don't even exist yet.

If a species 100,000ly from Earth pointed a telescope at our planet they would see Earth as it was 100,000 years ago.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
The problem is even if they have mastered super luminal speeds, the radio waves we produce would take thousands of years to get anywhere, so anywhere in the cosmos further than a handful of light years we don't even exist yet.

If a species 100,000ly from Earth pointed a telescope at our planet they would see Earth as it was 100,000 years ago.
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The distances between space are unfathomable to the human brain. Earth to the Moon, the greatest scientific achievement humanity has ever reached, is 384,400km... Earth to Mars is 54,600,000km.. If you held Earth in one hand, arms stretched, and the Moon in the other, Mars would be about a football field away. I can't think of a way another intelligent species could contact Earth given the distances. In Star Trek, they've developed the technology to travel much faster than the speed of light, but here, we're still cavemen. My monkey brain can't understand magic.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
The distances between space are unfathomable to the human brain. Earth to the Moon, the greatest scientific achievement humanity has ever reached, is 384,400km... Earth to Mars is 54,600,000km.. If you held Earth in one hand, arms stretched, and the Moon in the other, Mars would be about a football field away. I can't think of a way another intelligent species could contact Earth given the distances. In Star Trek, they've developed the technology to travel much faster than the speed of light, but here, we're still cavemen. My monkey brain can't understand magic.
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Technically in those shows they don't really exceed the speed of light. They usually either fold space or use the hypothesis of "hyperspace", which is a proposed layer of reality where light speed is much much faster than it is in ours.

C is still conserved ;)
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
SneekyNinja said:
Technically in those shows they don't really exceed the speed of light. They usually either fold space or use the hypothesis of "hyperspace", which is a proposed layer of reality where light speed is much much faster than it is in ours.

C is still conserved ;)
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If you fold space, don't you travel faster than light?

The idea of hyperspace seems much more plausible to me. Where you could 'stack' universes on top of eachother. (the amount of energy required - astronomical)
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
Dragging this conversation back to the OP, I think that designing and building the capability to enter space, travel through it and colonise other worlds is an endeavor far more worthy of the astronomical sums currently being lavished on weapons of war and mass surveillance.

The last time our country was relatively free of the selfish influence of oligarchs, we began this process and made impressive progress. It's time we get back to the real work of getting off this rock, instead of creating yet more ways to kill everyone on it.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you fold space, don't you travel faster than light?

The idea of hyperspace seems much more plausible to me. Where you could 'stack' universes on top of eachother. (the amount of energy required - astronomical)
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Excellent question.

Technically yes and technically no, it all depends on relative to what. Technically to the ship you would only have travelled the shortened distance between the two stacked points in space at sub light speeds but relative to normal space you have traversed a huge distance and technically have travelled further than light...

Good conversation though, good not to be arguing for once.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Dragging this conversation back to the OP, I think that designing and building the capability to enter space, travel through it and colonise other worlds is an endeavor far more worthy of the astronomical sums currently being lavished on weapons of war and mass surveillance.

The last time our country was relatively free of the selfish influence of oligarchs, we began this process and made impressive progress. It's time we get back to the real work of getting off this rock, instead of creating yet more ways to kill everyone on it.
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If humanity were to have united, fed and educated every single person starting in the early 50's we could be masters of our solar system by now.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
Even if all we did was pour all the world's defense budgets into colonizing space, I think the results would be similar.

The benefits here on Earth would be a nice bonus, too.
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The precious metals people will be sorely disappointed when we start pulling asteroids to earth orbit that contain literal tons of Ag, Au, Ir and Pt...
 
st0wandgrow

st0wandgrow

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
The distances between space are unfathomable to the human brain. Earth to the Moon, the greatest scientific achievement humanity has ever reached, is 384,400km... Earth to Mars is 54,600,000km.. If you held Earth in one hand, arms stretched, and the Moon in the other, Mars would be about a football field away. I can't think of a way another intelligent species could contact Earth given the distances. In Star Trek, they've developed the technology to travel much faster than the speed of light, but here, we're still cavemen. My monkey brain can't understand magic.
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It is tough to fathom the vastness of space, and how we would go about traveling through it. People like Neil Degrasse Tyson amaze me. He either has a bigger brain, or has tapped in to parts of his brain that the average human cannot. My brain is conditioned for there to be a start and an end to everything. Trying to wrap my head around an infinite space where earth is but a speck in a sea is impossible for me to understand.
 
SneekyNinja

SneekyNinja

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
It is tough to fathom the vastness of space, and how we would go about traveling through it. People like Neil Degrasse Tyson amaze me. He either has a bigger brain, or has tapped in to parts of his brain that the average human cannot. My brain is conditioned for there to be a start and an end to everything. Trying to wrap my head around an infinite space where earth is but a speck in a sea is impossible for me to understand.
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The crazy thing is it's not "technically" infinite but expanding at a rate we cant begin to fathom...

So what lies just beyond? What is the nothingness?

How anyone could believe a "God" that created all of this cares if you eat pork or fuck like rabbits is beyond my understanding though.

EDIT: That is if any of this exists at all, our reality could be a hyper accurate simulation being played out on a "computer" of a far more advanced race of humans.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
It is tough to fathom the vastness of space, and how we would go about traveling through it. People like Neil Degrasse Tyson amaze me. He either has a bigger brain, or has tapped in to parts of his brain that the average human cannot. My brain is conditioned for there to be a start and an end to everything. Trying to wrap my head around an infinite space where earth is but a speck in a sea is impossible for me to understand.
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Sailing did it for me; the moment you're out of sight of land, the enormity of the world becomes evident. From there it's a small step to imagine the infinity of space.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
If you fold space, don't you travel faster than light?

The idea of hyperspace seems much more plausible to me. Where you could 'stack' universes on top of eachother. (the amount of energy required - astronomical)
Click to expand...
FTL communication is already a fact. Sort of. It's like pushing on the end of a stick and the other end responds instantaneously.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/china-shatters-ldquo-spooky-action-at-a-distance-rdquo-record-preps-for-quantum-internet/

Einstein famously derided as “spooky action at a distance” one of the most bizarre elements of quantum theory—the way that measuring one member of an entangled pair of particles seems to instantaneously change the state of its counterpart, even if that counterpart particle is on the other side of the galaxy. This was abhorrent to Einstein, because it suggests information might be transmitted between the particles faster than light, breaking the universal speed limit set by his theory of special relativity.

In a landmark study, a team of Chinese scientists using an experimental satellite has tested quantum entanglement over unprecedented distances, beaming entangled pairs of photons to three ground stations across China—each separated by more than 1,200 kilometers. The test verifies a mysterious and long-held tenet of quantum theory, and firmly establishes China as the front-runner in a burgeoning “quantum space race” to create a secure, quantum-based global communications network—that is, a potentially unhackable “quantum internet” that would be of immense geopolitical importance. The findings were published Thursday in Science.

“China has taken the leadership in quantum communication,” says Nicolas Gisin, a physicist at the University of Geneva who was not involved in the study. “This demonstrates that global quantum communication is possible and will be achieved in the near future.”

There might be a way for us to transfer as non corporeal beings across space. By that time we might not be recognizable as human but I like the thought study you've proposed.

tty, communication is a big part of the economy, so this is in sort of in keeping with the OP.
 
Justin-case

Justin-case

Well-Known Member
st0wandgrow said:
It is tough to fathom the vastness of space, and how we would go about traveling through it. People like Neil Degrasse Tyson amaze me. He either has a bigger brain, or has tapped in to parts of his brain that the average human cannot. My brain is conditioned for there to be a start and an end to everything. Trying to wrap my head around an infinite space where earth is but a speck in a sea is impossible for me to understand.
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You're like a flat earther, but with the universe, lol.
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
More millionaires than ever, at the cost of the middle class and the poor;

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/24/a-record-number-of-americans-are-now-millionaires-new-study-shows.html

A record number of Americans are now millionaires, new study shows
Catherine Clifford
3:50 PM ET Fri, 24 March 2017
There are more millionaires than ever in the United States.

As of the end of 2016, there were a record 10.8 million millionaires nationwide, according to a new study from Spectrem Group's Market Insights Report 2017. That's more than ever before and marks a 400,000 person increase from the previous year.

The increase is thanks to a recovery of the U.S. economy since the Great Recession in 2008 and the Wall Street rally that followed the election of Donald Trump, according to George Walper, Jr., President of Spectrem Group.
"The record levels of households reflect the significantly higher values of all asset classes, post-recession," he says in a press release accompanying the release of the report. "And the recent record level of the United States markets following the presidential election has added demonstrably to the asset level of most affluent investors.''
In 2016, there were 9.4 million individuals with net worth between $1 million and $5 million, 1.3 million individuals with net worth between $5 million and $25 million, and 156,000 households with more than $25 million in net worth, the report says.

At the same time that there is a record number of millionaires in the U.S., the middle class is shrinking. The percent of American adults who are considered middle-income fell from 55 percent in 2000 to 52 percent in 2014, according to a 2016 report from the Pew Research Center.

And increasing numbers of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. One in three say they couldn't come up with $2,000 if faced with an emergency like an urgent home repair, medical crisis or car accident. Meanwhile, even affluent two-income households report feeling pinched.

Here's how to tell if your income qualifies you as "middle class" or "upper class."
 
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see4

see4

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
http://evonomics.com/insanely-concentrated-wealth-strangling-prosperity/

You want to know the reason for America's economic problems?

THIS.

It isn't war, it isn't the stick market, it isn't outsourcing, it's ridiculous levels of wealth inequality.

The kind where you have a fleet of convertible Rollers just to take the family out to dinner. The kind where you have your own hangar full of jets... And the private airport.

But rich people don't spend money. Therefore it doesn't stimulate the economy. Therefore the economy stagnates.

And somehow there 'isn't enough money' for basic services.

Look at the first chart and ask yourself how the isn't enough money.

NO ONE NEEDS A BILLION DOLLARS.
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You don't actually say anything here. You just sound mad at the world.

Are you trying to start a thread to discuss wealth inequality and how raising the tax on the rich will help stabilize an ever increasing imbalance in wealth allocation?

If so, why not just say that?

I can make an argument that certain people do need a billion dollars. SpaceX wasn't created with Monopoly money.

But to get back on topic. Let me preface the next part with a statement, 'I do agree that wealthier individuals and corporations need to be taxed more'.

To what end though? So we can further expand our military budget? Or perhaps so we can build sweet immigration walls? Or perhaps we can build more nukes for when it comes time to wipe North Korea off the map?

You guys miss the point entirely. You all are like doctors, you want to treat the symptoms and not the underlying problem.
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
More millionaires than ever, at the cost of the middle class and the poor;

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/03/24/a-record-number-of-americans-are-now-millionaires-new-study-shows.html

A record number of Americans are now millionaires, new study shows
Catherine Clifford
3:50 PM ET Fri, 24 March 2017
There are more millionaires than ever in the United States.

As of the end of 2016, there were a record 10.8 million millionaires nationwide, according to a new study from Spectrem Group's Market Insights Report 2017. That's more than ever before and marks a 400,000 person increase from the previous year.

The increase is thanks to a recovery of the U.S. economy since the Great Recession in 2008 and the Wall Street rally that followed the election of Donald Trump, according to George Walper, Jr., President of Spectrem Group.
"The record levels of households reflect the significantly higher values of all asset classes, post-recession," he says in a press release accompanying the release of the report. "And the recent record level of the United States markets following the presidential election has added demonstrably to the asset level of most affluent investors.''
In 2016, there were 9.4 million individuals with net worth between $1 million and $5 million, 1.3 million individuals with net worth between $5 million and $25 million, and 156,000 households with more than $25 million in net worth, the report says.

At the same time that there is a record number of millionaires in the U.S., the middle class is shrinking. The percent of American adults who are considered middle-income fell from 55 percent in 2000 to 52 percent in 2014, according to a 2016 report from the Pew Research Center.

And increasing numbers of Americans are living paycheck to paycheck. One in three say they couldn't come up with $2,000 if faced with an emergency like an urgent home repair, medical crisis or car accident. Meanwhile, even affluent two-income households report feeling pinched.

Here's how to tell if your income qualifies you as "middle class" or "upper class."
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So will building an immigration wall, or kick millions off health care and make the entire world laugh at us, fix this problem?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
So will building an immigration wall, or kick millions off health care and make the entire world laugh at us, fix this problem?
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If we want prosperity for all Americans, we need to end the practice of taxing investment incomes at lower rates than income from wages.

We can use the money for all sorts of things, including deferred maintenance on our nation's infrastructure, universal healthcare, better education for everyone rather than just those fortunate enough to afford to live in nice neighborhood, etc.

This sounds like you like things as they are?
 
ttystikk

ttystikk

Well-Known Member
see4 said:
You don't actually say anything here. You just sound mad at the world.

Are you trying to start a thread to discuss wealth inequality and how raising the tax on the rich will help stabilize an ever increasing imbalance in wealth allocation?

If so, why not just say that?

I can make an argument that certain people do need a billion dollars. SpaceX wasn't created with Monopoly money.

But to get back on topic. Let me preface the next part with a statement, 'I do agree that wealthier individuals and corporations need to be taxed more'.

To what end though? So we can further expand our military budget? Or perhaps so we can build sweet immigration walls? Or perhaps we can build more nukes for when it comes time to wipe North Korea off the map?

You guys miss the point entirely. You all are like doctors, you want to treat the symptoms and not the underlying problem.
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If we're missing the point, then by all means enlighten us?
 
see4

see4

Well-Known Member
ttystikk said:
If we want prosperity for all Americans, we need to end the practice of taxing investment incomes at lower rates than income from wages.

We can use the money for all sorts of things, including deferred maintenance on our nation's infrastructure, universal healthcare, better education for everyone rather than just those fortunate enough to afford to live in nice neighborhood, etc.

This sounds like you like things as they are?
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I don't like the way things are. But I live in reality. And reality dictates, for the moment, that electing people like Trump will put us back in time. And remaining divisive will only strengthen his base. You are perpetuating that divisiveness, and that's bad.
 
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