Importance of the relative length of the veg period

Discussion in 'Advanced Marijuana Cultivation' started by James Eaves, Nov 24, 2017.

    James Eaves

    James Eaves Member

    Does anyone have any insights or references related to impact of the relative length of the veg period on the final $/sqft of a harvest?

    For instance, suppose the harvest cycle for a particular strain lasts 12 weeks, and the recommended veg period were 4 weeks. I could reduced the veg period from 4 weeks to 3 weeks and increase the flower period to 9 weeks, thus keeping the harvest-cycle duration the same.

    (This is related to the SOG method but different, I think, since Im keeping the duration of the harvest cycle the same.)

    My question is if I reduce the veg period relative to the flower period, what impact should I expect to the end value of my production? For instance, will the longer flower period result in lower potency due to CBN production? If there are negative side-effects, are there methods for combatting them (like changes in temperature, spectrum...)?

    BigHornBuds Well-Known Member

    A specific plant has a predetermined flowering time, running a plant past peak ripeness or under will hurt you in one way or another
    Running less veg time will hurt your yield .
    I veg for 6 weeks, if I vegged for 4 I would lose about 30% of my yield .
    But a lot comes down to your setup.

    If u want to cut veg time<more plants per square foot so your filling the canopy.
    If you want less plants pre square foot , increase your veg time.

    If you want to know the right time to cut , buy a 100x power scope .
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    James Eaves

    James Eaves Member

    So is it right to say that the tradeoff with SOG is that the shorter veg time reduces yield per plant by some %, but that loss is offset by a shorter harvest cycle and, maybe, each plant having a higher yield as a percentage of the total volume of the plant (because of the more uniform light distribution)? Is the quality of the flower impacted by SOG?

    ANC Well-Known Member

    What are you running for lights. For COBS we top at least twice then supercrop very aggressively a week before flipping. this keeps them short, bushy with lots of colas, and easy to pack 1/sq foot.
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    James Eaves

    James Eaves Member

    The reason I'm asking is that, I think, the shorter the veg period relative to the flower period, the higher the percentage of total space that can be continuously used for the flower period, thus increasing yields/day - holding total space constant.

    Tell me if this doesn't make sense, but, for example, if the veg period is 6 weeks and the flower period is 12 weeks, then I can have at most 2 flower rooms and 1 veg room that I use to supply the two flower rooms, and I get a harvest ever 6 weeks (after the first harvest). As the veg period shrinks relative to the flowering period, I can further split the space to create more flower rooms that are supplied by that one veg room, further increasing the % of total space that is used for flower and reducing the time between harvests, which increases the yield/day. Does that make any sense?

    So the benefit of shrinking the veg period relative to the flower period is better space utilization (higher yield/day). But there are surely costs, and I'm trying to understand what they are, and if you might mitigate them.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    I think you should keep running what works for you now, but test your hypothesis in the real world on only a few plants.
    Many things that work on paper stop working when they meet our personalities.

    frontline Well-Known Member

    I very much agree with that statement
    OldMedUser likes this.
    mr sunshine

    mr sunshine Well-Known Member

    Just run sog and never veg.
    mr sunshine

    mr sunshine Well-Known Member

    You'll just have to grow more plants because they will be a lot smaller.
    nurrgle likes this.

    nurrgle Member

    If I wanted to reduce my veg time and overall grow cycle time without reducing my yield I would increase the plant count.

    It’s all about the bud sites in the canopy. Be it 10 plants you vegged for 8 weeks or 100 you vegged for 10 days.

    The only real constant in this equation is the flowering time. If you try to take a 8 week strain to 9 weeks, you will just degrade the end product, you won’t see an increase in yields to my knowledge.
    OldMedUser likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    That is true, there are a few other people locally working with the same line of clones, they harvest later than we do, and it leads to stoney weed. Not the energizing effect it can have.
    OldMedUser likes this.

    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Ed Rosenthal published conclusive results in his Grow book that longer veg resulted in more final potency in the flowers. And the longer the veg the more potent.

    I have only vegged a max of 2 months and compared with 12/12. The vegged plant grew more compact. Stronger branches. A third more yield. And had better bud structure and was slightly more potent according to testers.

    30 day veg made little difference except the 12/12 plant still needed way more branch support.

    I always veg to at least maturity for best results now.

    Of course this is a seed vs. seed test so many variables to consider but I'm sure the published results included many trials.
    OldMedUser, Lucky Luke and Humanrob like this.

    Lightgreen2k Well-Known Member

    I mean the longer your harvest period is the more indy sides of things you will get and the earlier more sati side of things.
    Also is very strain dependant.
    OldMedUser likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

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    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    I would think all the different canabanoids mature together. The only thing "Stoney" about over ripe flowers is the thc degrading to cbn.

    Less potent weed always feels lighter. I let them all go a week or two past breeder recommendations before I see enough mature trichs deep into the buds to get the full balanced effects of the flowers.

    Other than that I think it's strain dependent for the high/buzz. I never cut early anymore. I let them all finish growing.

    Early trichs are full of thc precursors. They give me a headache and a bright short lived high.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    We are growing a cut that has come from the 80s, its pretty cut and dried what works for it.

    Ours isn't early per se, just a few days sooner than the other crews run.
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    MichiganMedGrower Well-Known Member

    Yes I understand. I didn't mean to imply you cut yours early. Just that it all matures at the same time. So others don't cut before peak thinking it will be better.

    Except if uv is added indoors. Uvb seems to promote only thc.
    OldMedUser likes this.
    Lucky Luke

    Lucky Luke Well-Known Member

    Interesting link, thanks.

    if you don't mind ill cut and paste this for reference;

    "Cannabis is nitrophilic, but if the plant is grown for its resin, the supply should be kept under 400 ppm, and it must be reduced to about 100 ppm during flowering. The application of N should be reduced 20% in very hot weather.

    The Russian agronomist B. Lesik showed that the form of N substantially affects the growth of hemp and the quality of its fiber:

    "When ammonia N was applied, the plants passed through their development cycle more rapidly. The stalks were thinner and there was less development of wood. In comparison with nitrate N, ammonia N caused increases in the yield of long fibers, in the length of the elementary fibers, in flexibility, tensile strength, and uniformity of the fibers, and cellulose content, and there was a decrease in the amount of waste fibers. The retting process also proceeded more quickly, and a smaller amount of extractive substances (organic acids and N) accumulated in the retting fluid. Fertilization with the mixed form gave intermediate results. The thinness of the fibers did not depend on the form of N applied". (47)

    High N has a "masculinizing" effect on the hemp phenotype; it stimulates the formation of male flowers. The proportion, degree, and number of monoecious flowers increases with increasing N, and the total N content is always higher in monoecious plants than in females, whatever the dose of N. (48)

    Excessive N causes hemp to grow rapidly as seedlings, but the plants wilt, turn to copper-brown, and die when they begin to flower. High levels of N in the middle of the growth cycle will cause water uptake to increase, and induces a sex ratio as high as females 9:1 males. An excess of N is indicated by abnormally large, pulpy branches and veins, with few flowers. The stem turns brown, and terminal shoots stop developing. Leaves are spotted with dead areas, and they curl, pimple, and turn yellow between veins. The breaking strength of the fibers is reduced by about 15%. The stem texture is herbaceous with a hollow pith and short internodes. Excess N added during preparation of the soil inhibits stem development. Best results are obtained by adding half of the required N in the primary treatment, and the second half at the first feeding."
    OldMedUser likes this.
    mr sunshine

    mr sunshine Well-Known Member

    Has anyone figured out the length of the vag period yet?
    ANC likes this.

    ANC Well-Known Member

    None of this shit is new, it is just not really part of the general knowledge pool. Some of that paper comes from the 19th century, we are now in the 21st.
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